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  1. #1366
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    So Kibblesmith has done yet another podcast, but there is an interesting twist this time because it is Kibblesmith AND Al Ewing together, at NYCC. The two Loki writers on one podcast. (even tho Ewing is mostly there to talk Hulk and GotG). tho they seem to have caught them at the trail end of the convention so they are both super tired, and I am gonna be honest, it shows, they both seem kinda out of it.

    https://soundcloud.com/user-51813809...el-kibblesmith

    It was mostly chit chat, with not much new revealed but a couple notable bits:

    - Ewing talks Guardians of the Galaxy a little bit, but says he still has some secrets after NYCC, so him being the Guardian writer isn't all of it. But he says he is now 'the ruler of space' so you know, that's nice for him. Ewing steps away and then Kibblesmith keeps going about the guardians stuff so he seems to know what the situation is there, so I'm wondering if Loki is involved, considering that's his only book and all.

    - They talk cosplay, they both have seen many Lokis. And an impressive Hulkbuster.

    - Loki is a cowboy now. says it is a 'flashback story' so it may not be time travel, exactly? He continues, explaining that the bargain struck with Now and Then 'affects how he moves through time. It decompressed his past in a sort of accordion way' so it sounds like it's not time travel so much as some of the new blank pages being filled in.

    - Ewing says he is surprised at how well Hulk is doing, but grateful

    - Ewing says he is enjoying what Kibblesmith is doing with Loki. (while talking about the logistics of using a character that is thought of as primarily another writer's turf/creation) and says Kibblesmith never came to him, and he never went to Kieron to get the OK on their takes on Loki, that you have to have confidence in your own work and take on a character, and that it's probably better to not consult with previous writers of the characters to ensure you are bringing something new to the character and doing your take rather than someone elses. Kibblesmith elaborates that he had read everything that came before with Loki but that, no, he did not consult with Ewing or anything, and that he says the 'goal is synthesis, giving it a forward thrust so it can keep going, and not become a nostalgia project' Even though he goes on to say he was a big fan of AoA and JiM, he 'didn't want to write fan-fiction about it'

    - Guy says that Loki is getting more buzz recently and that people are starting to take notice of it, and what does he think of the reaction. Kibblesmith says it has been very positive so far, and that he's a well liked character, so that's 'not always a sure thing' when you start a new run with any well loved character, you run the risk of alienating fans. Guy interjects again saying that Al and Daniel are both kinda doing the same thing with Loki and Hulk, in that they are reinventing the characters, al is bringing the Hulk back to his roots but spinning off in a (creepy) new direction and 'adding something new and modern' to that, and Daniel is doing the same with Loki, and he says he feels these reinventions are necessary. (the nostalgia focused fans would not agree with that, but I do)

    - Ewing says that with these characters you can 'drill down into some primal core of the character, and as long as you keep that, you can build a lot on top of that' talks some more about Hulk, and finishes by agreeing with the host about how characters need to be reinvented from time to time, and that it would be boring if they were 'cookie cutter' all the time. (so basically both Kibblesmith and Ewing are about finding the core, then moving forward with that as a foundation rather than just repeating the same thing over and over. Which I fully support, that is one of the things that appeals to me about Loki in particular these past 10-15 years or so)

    - Host asks Kibblesmith what is the one change he's brought to Loki so far in the series that he is most proud of? (tho only 4 issues had been released at this point so...) Kibblesmith says he's 'hoping for a slow burn on this one' (I think that is the closest we have gotten yet to 'no, it's not cancelled' given that it was said at the end of NYCC. Can't do a slow burn with only 5 issues.) but says that issue 3, and the whole bargain with Now and Then deal. Says we haven't seen the ramifications of that, but that he thinks it will end up being bigger than just an excuse to do flashback issues. Even tho he says issue 5 is a 'really fun sort of untold tale' so yeah, not actually time travel. But that the change will affect him on a 'biological level. He is a disrupted person now.' and that he feels Loki is in part 'defined by getting in over his head' and that this is their version of that.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-14-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #1367
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    The "biological level" part makes me wonder about the part of the last issue where Nightmare does manage hit Loki and make him bleed. And then later, we see a Loki wiping the blood from his cheek, but he also looks at it
    Was the bleeding not stopping? Is Loki really not used to seeing himself bleed?

    With everything going on, yeah, I'm guessing neither writer is getting much sleep LOL

    Happy that Ewing is gaining more power and all, because that man WILL connect everything and make sure everything aligns, but damn is that exhausting. The amount of not just writing, but also just general research he must be doing just sounds insane.

  3. #1368
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    I just thought Loki was shocked that Nightmare attacked him with a stop sign. I'm sure Loki has bled before.

    Some interesting parts in that interview. I like that Kibblesmith is moving forward with Loki, as much as I love AOA and JIM etc. the character needs to move on but I also like that he hasn't forgotten his roots in those stories either as they are referenced.

    I excited to see where the ramifications will go with Loki changing the past, at least his past, and what effects it will have on him in the present.

    Tbh I don't think Kibblesmith will come out and say it wasn't cancelled because that could create a whole mess if it was suddenly cancelled. Comics like any other media can be cancelled at any time and a writer one day could say it isn't cancelled, and that day it wasn't, but the next day it suddenly was. It would create chaos. Better to say nothing and let the announcement, whether or if it's ever cancelled to do the speaking that way you don't get some accusing you of lying or things like that. I say some with emphasis here but sometimes the minority seem to be the loudest at times.

  4. #1369
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    We know Loki has bled before, we saw it not just in other issues in the past, but in the flashback in the same issue. To the same place on his face, even. so i think maybe it just made him think of that time. I also just think it was a reminder to him that he doesn't like to solve his problems with physical conflict. Thor is just fine with wading in and punching things until they stop moving, Loki likes to take a more hands off approach. He doesn't like to 'play rough' which isn't the Asgardian way.

    And yeah, I liked what they both had to say about moving forward. I have liked a lot of takes in the past, particularly recently, but that doesn't mean I want him to get stuck in one place, I can still enjoy those past takes without him repeating himself forever. there are some characters that have a pretty simple core and MO, and kinda work best if you stick to that, like Punisher, or Superman or whoever. And that works fine for them. (tho even those types of characters evolve somewhat to keep them relevant, just not a huge amount) but some other characters, and Loki is one of them, work best if they are constantly moving forward an evolving. In Loki's case in particular, int he past 10 years or so, his desire to change and escape fate has become a core part of his character, so to have him just revert to some old status quo would seem like a betrayal of his character to me. Now, there are some limits, I don't want him doing massive character shifts every other year, I do still want a sense of logical progression and for it to progress at a somewhat slow pace so we can sort of get a sense of where he's at and where he wants to go kind of thing, and I think there are limits to how far you can go with his change before he doesn't feel like Loki anymore. (though if the change is organic enough, you can go pretty far, like, what we have now is not much like what we had in the early days, in a lot of ways. But some core traits do remain like the above mentioned desire to refrain from physical conflict if he can avoid it, instead relying on others to do his dirty work ro trickery of some kind, or magic)

    And I don't think he will come out and directly say it was/wasn't cancelled, especially if there is something odd going on like a relaunch to tie in with the Thor book, but NYCC was after the rumors began because of the skipped solicit, so if he's still saying he's going for a long game there, I think it's safe to say that means there are more issues coming in one way or another.

  5. #1370
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    So how do we think Fiege being named King of Marvel will work for Loki? Is Loki safer than he was already? Or is Fiege likely to revert Loki?

  6. #1371
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    I have a suspicion he will be pretty hands off in regards to the comics, leaving most decisions to the editors, so I doubt it will affect Loki one way or the other.

  7. #1372
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    We know Loki has bled before, we saw it not just in other issues in the past, but in the flashback in the same issue. To the same place on his face, even. so i think maybe it just made him think of that time. I also just think it was a reminder to him that he doesn't like to solve his problems with physical conflict. Thor is just fine with wading in and punching things until they stop moving, Loki likes to take a more hands off approach. He doesn't like to 'play rough' which isn't the Asgardian way.
    Just saw this and had a 'duh, how did I miss that? ' moment. I bet you anything that the reason the scene of him as a child was included (it really didn't have much of anything to do with events in the issue) and he suffered an injury that mirrored that incident and made him think of it, is probably because of Now and Then. Like Cowboy Loki in the old west, I don't think that scene happened originally, but if he is going to die a hero, he needs to have a somewhat sympathetic backstory for him to return to and motivate him. So some of the new blank pages were filled with him as a child, providing those moments. And now he is being 'reminded' of the new/old events. Basically, it is implying that some of the more sympathetic aspects of his past may have been Now and Then retcons.

    It could pose some problems, in that it implies that without this sort of meddling in his backstory Loki would be incapable of making lasting change in the present, and that all his past attempts at turning over a new leaf were doomed without them. I don't like this idea, I think he was on track before his encounter with Now and Then, and could have done it himself without their intervention, even if it would have been harder. (he is taking a shortcut again, where he can get the reward without the work, which will presumably, as it has before, have unforeseen consequences) but it could also just be there to give the turn a bit more resonance in-universe as well as out of it. And, also like Wolverine, it could be seen as a fix-it patch in a way, in that it adds context for events in the present that otherwise would not really make sense.

    With Wolverine, besides it just being a fun story, it retroactively fixes the whole thing with the Infinity stuff with Loki and Wolverine acting like they had known each other for years, despite barely ever appearing on panel at the same time before, let alone speaking to one another. Of course there is some weirdness there, in that at that time, Loki's past hadn't been changed... But when you meddle with the past, then I guess it doesn't really matter when the decision to meddle was made, the actual meddling still happened in the past no matter what, so it would have happened regardless even if the characters had not yet reached this moment in time. But then we kind of get into paradox territory where what if he made this decision in part because of the meddling and....

    I dunno, I am just rambling at this point.

  8. #1373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Just saw this and had a 'duh, how did I miss that? ' moment. I bet you anything that the reason the scene of him as a child was included (it really didn't have much of anything to do with events in the issue) and he suffered an injury that mirrored that incident and made him think of it, is probably because of Now and Then. Like Cowboy Loki in the old west, I don't think that scene happened originally, but if he is going to die a hero, he needs to have a somewhat sympathetic backstory for him to return to and motivate him. So some of the new blank pages were filled with him as a child, providing those moments. And now he is being 'reminded' of the new/old events. Basically, it is implying that some of the more sympathetic aspects of his past may have been Now and Then retcons.

    It could pose some problems, in that it implies that without this sort of meddling in his backstory Loki would be incapable of making lasting change in the present, and that all his past attempts at turning over a new leaf were doomed without them. I don't like this idea, I think he was on track before his encounter with Now and Then, and could have done it himself without their intervention, even if it would have been harder. (he is taking a shortcut again, where he can get the reward without the work, which will presumably, as it has before, have unforeseen consequences) but it could also just be there to give the turn a bit more resonance in-universe as well as out of it. And, also like Wolverine, it could be seen as a fix-it patch in a way, in that it adds context for events in the present that otherwise would not really make sense.

    With Wolverine, besides it just being a fun story, it retroactively fixes the whole thing with the Infinity stuff with Loki and Wolverine acting like they had known each other for years, despite barely ever appearing on panel at the same time before, let alone speaking to one another. Of course there is some weirdness there, in that at that time, Loki's past hadn't been changed... But when you meddle with the past, then I guess it doesn't really matter when the decision to meddle was made, the actual meddling still happened in the past no matter what, so it would have happened regardless even if the characters had not yet reached this moment in time. But then we kind of get into paradox territory where what if he made this decision in part because of the meddling and....

    I dunno, I am just rambling at this point.
    Lol thank you for coming back to that panel for me.

    And good points, your explanation makes the most sense. And it's one of the least confusing.

    But given that Loki is/was a god of stories, I can see how this would be a bit more complicated and maybe even harmful for him than it would be for most of the other heroes. I mean, he is likely aware on a different level of what's happening to him, but he doesn't entirely remember the changes or why they're happening to him.

  9. #1374
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    Loki could have changed some things in his childhood to make it sympathetic but it’s also not like we haven’t got sympathetic glimpses in his childhood before Now and Then struck the deal with him either. I think in regards of his childhood it might be difficult to guess what actually was originally and what changed through his deal with Now and Then. It might be that we will never truly know the answer.

    Loki had the flashback before Nightmare hit him with the stop sign as it was at the very beginning of issue 4 but then again that could also be the fuzzy timeline thing at work again.
    Last edited by Lambadelta; 10-16-2019 at 11:16 AM.

  10. #1375
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, that's just it, I don't think it's Loki that's changing the past, it's Now and Then. He wanted to escape fate, or more specifically his fate to always be the bad guy, but he instead lost control of his life even more than before, even if it ends up in a place that he likes better. He doesn't know what's happening just yet, but should he ever figure it out (and I think he will) I don't think he would consider that a good deal, since I think more than anything he wants to be the one who determines his own fate. (though of course, as a fictional character that will never really be possible for him, and it will likely always elude him in universe as well since this story with him fighting fate is so meta) So I do think it will be explored further, specifically the question of whether he values being a hero over determining his own life. There is no reason to introduce that plotline with Now and Then if there was no intent to follow up on it in the future, after all. Lots of characters, as they themselves pointed out, have this sort of meta ability to appear in more places than they should technically be able to, including Wolverine (hence why he's the co-star of the Wild West story, i assume. He's already got this sort of deal going for him in universe, whether he realizes it or not, so I mean, not a big deal to include him in this addition to Loki's story, what's another few pages among thousands? Likewise Thor will likely play a part since he also has the deal, and I imagine Odin has a similar thing happening, so you know, most of Loki's childhood is up grabs) but it was never explicitly focused on in-universe until now, because it wasn't really necessary to explain that, it's just sort of a thing fans have come to expect from characters of a certain popularity and importance in universe, and they didn't have to offer up that explanation with Loki either, unless it was going to come back around.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-16-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  11. #1376
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    So had another look at the Pinterest. A few interesting additions, and one interesting removal. The removal is the Thor cover, maybe asked to remove it cus spoilers, or maybe the original pin just got deleted, I dunno. but it was this cover: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20081130034759 And I'm still leaning towards it being for a homage cover or splash page.

    Also, it appears that Loki may be going to Canada, because of the Canadian penny. But unless Kibblesmith has been lax in his research, it is most likely another flashback story, possibly a continuation of the Wolverine story, since he is Canadian and all, (or maybe even a late addition for issue 5's art, but the research would be off there, since that story seems to take place in the late 1800's/early 1900's, so the coin would look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_...woody1778a.jpg ) because a) that is an old design (it switched to centered maple leafs in the 30's) and b) Canada stopped producing pennies entirely a few years ago, you can't get them anymore unless you happen to have some old ones laying around. I mean, it's either flashback, with a window of time between 1920 and 1937 when that design was in circulation, or Loki gets into coin collecting.

    Looks like we may be seeing a return to the whitespace?

    The stained glass is from the Palau de la Música Catalana in Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palau_...Asica_Catalana but I suspect this is more of a 'feel' reference, just asking for something in a similar style, rather than indicating Loki will be visiting Spain.

    Not really sure what to make of the Verity romance novel, but intriguing given the name, obviously.

    Pic of rainbow and lightning, no idea, best guess is something to do with the Bifrost and Thor, but beyond that...
    Last edited by Raye; 10-18-2019 at 11:12 PM.

  12. #1377
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    verity

    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  13. #1378
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    I'm tearing up a little bit
    Dear Santa please let Verity appear again, I'll be a good girl this year

  14. #1379
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    Dammit, Kibblesmith! Don't lead us on!

  15. #1380
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Wow you guys really latched on to the Verity thing... I just want to caution against getting your hopes up too much, and that this thing has had things not materialize before, or they showed up in an unexpected manner. And that this is primarily for visual reference, if it doesn't convey something visually that will be drawn by the artists, it doesn't need to be there at all, because not for dropping hints, that's just a secondary function, so for all we know, the name was a coincidence. Like, why would our Verity be in a period dress? Just saying, don't take this to mean Verity will be for sure returning, it could be an ancestor of hers in one of the flashbacks, or paired with the whitespace thing, or something.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-19-2019 at 08:35 AM.

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