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  1. #1426
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah, tech vs science, but both of them really smart, too. Not many could give Maker a run for his money smarts wise, (I mean, Reed, obviously, Tony, a couple others, but not many) but Loki could play his game, even if they specialize in different fields. Could show how Loki's different from his brother while doing the same job, if he has to outsmart someone like that, which is not exactly Thor's wheelhouse. Also, I like the idea because Maker is an evil version of Reed, so he kind of demonstrates that a person is a product of their experiences, not just destined to be good or bad from birth kind of thing. Though this is all assuming it goes something like we're speculating.

    I'm kinda wondering if the other characters will get redesigns as dramatic as Thor's. Which kind of has me a little worried since I do happen to really like Loki's current look. But on the other hand he's had pretty much this look for... about five years now? six? I mean he got a different coat for a while there, and his hair was short then long now short again, but... still, not huge differences. Meanwhile Thor went from classic-modern, to shirtless unworthy, to unworthy with a shirt, to a classic-modern again and now all-father, and lost both an arm and an eye along the way. So Loki is kinda due... I guess... but on the other hand, I am still not convinced the new costume for Thor is technically real, I still think it may be more of a mental construct kinda deal, and he might still look exactly the same to everyone around him. As far as characterization goes, I just hope they don't make Loki the bad guy again. I know he was good-ish in Dr Strange when Cates wrote him before, so we do know Cate is familiar with his modern characterization and writes it well, but he wasn't in control of Loki when he wrote that, he wasn't really in a position to make changes to his character, he just had to go along with how he was being used in Thor, so he didn't upset Aaron's plans. Now he's the one making the plans, so.... I think it's probably unlikely but you never know.

  2. #1427
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I dunno what's more tragic, Thor losing his beard or them making him wear SLEEVES again.
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  3. #1428
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, if i am right, it won't be all the time, at least?

    But if i am right, it has occurred to me it might mean Loki's involved.... maybe. Just that if it is that Thor is on more of a mental/spiritual journey and that is why the costume change happened, we have to ask how it happened that he's doing that at all. Astral projection or similar is not exactly one of Thor's skills. But it is one of Loki's. But the question in that situation is if it is voluntary on Thor's part or not. If it is voluntary, something he asked Loki to do, then that's good. If it's Loki using it as some way to get Thor out of the way, then it would mean he's back to his old ways. But I'm getting way ahead of myself here, I just think the costume change is too drastic to be something that can be explained away in a way that's going to make sense or feel satisfying if it is something that's an actual physical change. Though if it is, then again Loki might be involved cus magic.

  4. #1429
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    https://www.blogtalkradio.com/3rdand...9zdxY8.twitter

    Another podcast. Host mentions beforehand that 4 issues are out, so it was recorded fairly recently.

    They start out talking syndicated newspaper comics for a while before getting to Loki stuff...

    - Asks Kibblesmith for his opinion on WotR and if there was anything he felt he had to 'fix' because of that (even tho host did really like Aaron's run). Kibblesmith responds saying that you are always in the shadow of someone on a book like this and that he really wanted to honor everything that came before from Stan and Jack through to the present. And that he wanted to do a more modern take, even more so than Aaron's which he said skewed a bit more villainous, because it was a Thor comic and not the protagonist. (while I agree that this was likely Aaron's reasoning, not sure I agree that Loki has to skew more villain when not the protagonist, Thor has plenty of non villainous supporting cast, we will see what Cates does) but says that he loved WotR, and that one thing he wanted to bring over from it was that the story was about Asgard stuff happening in the broader MU rather than Asgard being off in its own little bubble doing its own thing, that he always liked that about the MU, that it reflected the real world, and he wanted to continue that with Loki. That the story is mostly Loki going around trying to be a hero of Midgard, and that while he will have more Cosmic stuff happen in between, it is more Midgard focused. And that he wanted to find stories which hadn't been done before with him, and that Loki is so versatile and elastic he can kinda fit anywhere.

    - Says that if there is a formula for Loki, one which has roots back in the mythology, its not so much that he's a villain, it's that he shows up with big off the wall ideas that create a problem that is now your problem, and you can't solve it without him. Which is fair.

    - Says (and I recall him saying this before, more or less) that he is approaching the comics as a fan so sees odd things about the comics and asks questions about that in the text, and Loki (and Deadpool) is a good vehicle for that as a way of hanging a lampshade on some of these off quirks.

    - A bunch of stuff about Black Panther and Deadpool which isn't really relevant to this thread, nor would a lot of it make sense if you have not read that mini, but is interesting if you have read it and wanted to listen... Also, says his dream characters to write solo are Nightcrawler and Daredevil that 'is the opposite of whatever is being done with him' right then in the main book. And then some Late Show stuff.

    - Which brings us to him briefly back to Loki, with him meeting Hiddleston on the Late Show, says he was very nice, very tall, and that he had been asked to sign copies of the new series while on Broadway. Brings them to how the MCU's real secret ingredient is incredible casting.

    - They ask which show has inspired him most, but set it up by saying 'what are you watching first on Disney+' and he answers Loki, obviously. And goes on to say how incredible it is that he got a show like that at all, and that it speaks a lot to Hiddleston's portrayal and all the writing that went I to that and hopes it helps with the current book. But his real answer was X-Men: The Animated Series, and they close out the podcast talking about that.

    Oh yeah, and the most recent Donny Cates appearance on Stegman's podcast was also released https://stegmanandfriends.podbean.com/ but I am podcasted out for the morning so dunno if he says anything about Thor and/or Loki in it just now, it's probably mostly Absolute Carnage related, (and, I imagine resolving the 'drama' between him and Zdarsky and Soule) but... The link is there if you wanted to see. I will give it a listen in a couple hours and update if he says anything about Loki.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-28-2019 at 11:42 AM.

  5. #1430
    Amazing Member Regular man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I will give it a listen in a couple hours and update if he says anything about Loki.
    My hero
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    I dunno what's more tragic, Thor losing his beard or them making him wear SLEEVES again.
    making him wear sleeves again is perhaps more traumatizing, sometimes certain fashions sadly never die
    Last edited by Regular man; 10-28-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  6. #1431
    Fantastic Member JTHM's Avatar
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    On the topic of Loki's cancellation:

    The latest comic sales report I can see puts him at around 16k. Honestly that's low and in the umbral of cancellation. But with so few issues I don't believe they are just going to puff him out of existence so fast. If this continue they may cancel it at issue 10 but not right now.

  7. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    On the topic of Loki's cancellation:

    The latest comic sales report I can see puts him at around 16k. Honestly that's low and in the umbral of cancellation. But with so few issues I don't believe they are just going to puff him out of existence so fast. If this continue they may cancel it at issue 10 but not right now.
    That only includes paper sales but not digital. So we only have an estimate on the former but not the latter. I can see Loki doing better digitally but we will never see those numbers. But I'm not going to worry about it, at the end of the day waiting and worrying isn't going help anyway so I'm just going to enjoy Loki #5 and hopefully we will get a solicit for Loki #6 not long after. I think if there is no Loki #6 solicit I think it's almost a certainty that it has been cancelled. Because while it's rare that a comic has gone two months without an issue, it has been done but I can't think of a time where it's transcended to three months. But right now it's just a waiting game.

    On the Kibblesmith podcast, it seems that there was nothing new really said but still some good things nonetheless. I'm interested to see what Cates does say about Thor and Loki, I haven't listened to the podcast and there might not be anything there but I'm sure he will do more interviews on his Thor run soon so hopefully we will get a good idea of what he tends to do with these characters and the direction he wants to take them in.
    Last edited by Lambadelta; 10-28-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  8. #1433
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    I buy it twice every month, but neither of those purchases will show up in the charts because i get a print subscription for my niece, and digitally for myself. And i think Loki is a character that would attract more readers in digital or trades, which have kept books afloat before (see: Squirrel Girl) and that may be part of the reason for the delay, they may have wanted to see how well the trade sold before moving forward or not. I think a relaunch with some kind of hook, and a new artist, possibly tying into Thor, is the most likely scenario. Somehow it seems most people got it into their heads that this was a mini for some odd reason, which never sell, and with a not very well known creative team... So though I think Kibblesmith is right that Loki absolutely can do a book with no real hook, in terms of the fact that he is a well rounded enough character, I think the book still needs a draw beyond the character, and if it's not coming from the creative team, it has to be from a strong story hook. So they may be trying a do-over. Or there is just something in Thor that necessitates it, or... well, I guess we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regular man View Post
    My hero
    I mean I was gonna listen anyway, even if Donny wasn't guesting this week. The whole thing with Chip Zdarsky and Charles Soule (which Donny played dumb about even tho he played along about it on Twitter ) was really funny, and the whole podcast is one of the more entertaining ones I've heard, for sure. I'd definitely recommend giving it a listen if you have the time, they have fun, they kind of play weird character versions of themselves, and Donny is playing the part of the big famous guy who's too important for these lesser peons, now that he has Thor. It's really hard to sum up tho, just listen to the Chip Zdarsky episodes onward, worth it, promise. But, since Stegman is the artist on Venom/Absolute Carnage, and Donny is the writer of those, I mean, it is very likely it will focus on that.

    A couple minutes in and Donny is all like 'I'm in a post-Venom world now' because he's writing Thor, (Am I drawing that? I don't have a job right now' says Stegman ) He's going on about how wonderful it is to work with Nic Klein who is an 'a list talent' and it's the most gorgeous book' he's worked on etc. and how wonderful it is to work with someone of his caliber (while his artist on Venom/Absolute Carnage, is sitting right there, of course, until he 'goes to the bathroom' to throw up.) they crack a little at the end here. (which is why they can never have Nick Spencer back, as an aside. he could not make it through his bit without laughing, he cracked so bad. the rest were pros tho.)

    They put Donny on mute, and ask Stegman if they should kick him for being an *******, but due to the events with Zdarsky and Soule, technically Donny owns Ethan and Griffin (the producers) as part of the settlement, so they can't. And they come back for part 3 of Absolute Carnage #1 breakdown. So absolute Carnage for a bit. (and they break character, back to normal) They seem a little burned out on Carnage. (but not Venom) He has strong opinions on Spider-Man. Calls out Al Ewing to work with him, which seems like it should be doable with Valkyrie and all. Says the Maker stuff is 'long game stuff' so while i think he was talking in context of Venom, it does mean he could be there to tie into Thor as well, could maybe be the connective thread on Earth.

    They move on to questions. He's mistaken that he thinks Black Knight is the only character Marvel got from another company, ans he should damn well know this one, because Thor's sister Angela is from Image. He has strong and controversial opinions on music. (hates the Beatles and Stones) an strong opinions on Joker (hates it) Likes Watchmen. But nothing Thor related was asked. Call Chip Zdarsky but he's drunk and it goes poorly. I don't think it was a bit.

    But Donny is a sweetheart, i promise, I've met him, he's super nice, this is all for funsies.

  9. #1434
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    ANOTHER podcast. Video one this time!

    https://youtu.be/yniIuqjPh38?t=4997

    If the embedded video doesn't go to the right timestamp the link should, it is a Watchmen podcast and if you want to mostly skip all the Watchmen spoilers and discussion you have to skip to 1:23 (yes, they spent nearly an hour and a half discussing the most recent episode. interesting tho, if you're watching) and there will still be more Watchmen talk with Kibblesmith (tho mostly about the original comic) but also some intriguing Loki tidbits are dropped, including some more stuff implying it is definitely not cancelled.

    Start out talking about how Loki and Wolverine are teaming up and how Black Panther and Deadpool fought/teamed up in, well, Black Panther vs Deadpool, and says that he has written 4 of the coolest character sin the MU with those 2 books. Asks who is the coolest. Kibblesmith says it's harder to say anyone is cooler than Black Panther, and gives his reasons why, which are hard to argue with. He says he really likes Loki... but... He does like all of them though, and says he likes Loki the more time he gets to spend with him, that both Loki and Wolverine 'are popular for very good reason' and that they are both versatile and interesting. And that he wanted to do a Wolverine flashback because it is a flashback to cowboy times, and, well, Wolverine is who is around then. (he didn't say it, but I presume you can assume "... who is also around in the present" because Marvel has plenty of old west characters.) Says Wolverine is 19 in his story, just a wee baby lad, which means it is VERY soon after Origins concludes, and means this is set right around 1900. Says they (him and editors, i presume) did the math to figure out the date and his age, where he'd be what he'd be doing, and everything. So definitely too early for the Canadian penny from the Pinterest or the matchbook, both of which are from the late 20s to early 30s, the penny is a design created in 1920 and was in circulation until the mid 30s, and the matchbook though not dated did definitely look to be from the 20s-30s.

    anyway, moving on...

    He says that they wanted to get the continuity right on these sorts of things, because "time isn't working for him the way it's supposed to" and "in our first flashback story" they wanted everything to check out and not anger the continuity nerds.

    they gush about the cover, and Kibblesmith says all the covers have been "amazing" but this one is "next level" and I'd have to agree, it is a great cover.

    He goes on to talk about writing for TV, and there is some discussion about how he has to always keep up with events because the Late Show (and Colbert Report before that) is quite focused on current events, and how that's a challenge, and then one of the hosts asks since Loki is an immortal, how does he get inspiration for writing him, since he's going to be divorced from current events a lot of the time. Daniel responds that the thing that's "different about writing an immortal is that the stakes are really different." that with someone like Spider-Man "the stakes are like he could die, or let a bunch of people down, or like someone close to him could die" but that with an immortal, "mortality is off the table". So for Loki you have to create stakes (and goals) that are more emotional. How he feels, he's sad, or guilty, or hurt someone else inadvertently etc. "and all these things happen in our story", says that regular people will get hurt inadvertently, and that he will do things that he doesn't seem to understand the consequences of, (even if he says he does, and thinks he has a plan)

    this get a little off track as they bring up Joker, and yadayada but you can't trust what Joker is saying, and that is kind of the same deal with Loki, (but kinda in a different way, at the moment.) that you can't trust him. and that "what's interesting with him being the hero, is that instead of him being a villain or chaotic neutral character who the heroes can't trust, he's a protagonist and you find out why you can't trust him. And it's not always the same reason. sometimes he's lying, sometimes he's wrong, sometimes he over-reaches." Says that one of his biggest problems is that he's bored, which also ties back to being immortal, and that ties back to the original question. and that you have to think about how they move through our world, and what bothers them and what's important to them.

    they then move away from (from their perspective) 'off topic' stuff, and on to Watchmen.

    but hey, said the Wolverine issue was "the first" flashback so that's good!

  10. #1435
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    So this has to be about the artist...I hope. Dammit, Marvel, confirm something! This is worse than waiting for Dark Crystal to get renewed for a season 2!

  11. #1436
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    He says that they wanted to get the continuity right on these sorts of things, because "time isn't working for him the way it's supposed to" and "in our first flashback story" they wanted everything to check out and not anger the continuity nerds.
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  12. #1437
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    So this has to be about the artist...I hope. Dammit, Marvel, confirm something! This is worse than waiting for Dark Crystal to get renewed for a season 2!
    Artist or Thor tie in stuff seem most likely. Though with tie-in stuff, you'd think they could have either padded out the first arc for another issue or two, or make the Wolverine thing 2 issues, or done another done in one issue where he flashes back to a different period of time, i mean not like they are going to run out of potential material as far as flashbacks go, since he's over a thousand years old. Lots of potential ground to cover from medieval to Victorian (like, 1850's kinda stuff, before Wolverine, which is Edwardian, i guess), or any point in between... and you know, it just occurred to me, the sliding timescale keeps opening up potential flashbacks from the 60's through to the... i guess we're at the MU starting (as in formation of the Fantastic Four) during the early 2000's. Which is kind of mind boggling to me since that is after i started reading the books. I mean i kinda didn't get much into Marvel until very late 90s, i was more into Vertigo (RIP) before that, but still. Could be interesting to explore that aspect, for sure. Flash back to the 80's or 90's and it's BEFORE the FF formed even though that happened in the 60's in a publishing sense, and the stories reflect that. Explore how the past shifted and changed.

    anyway yeah... Art troubles seems likely given that there were the multiple artists on issue 4, and we do have a different artist on issue 5. It's release schedule slipped with issue 5 too, it was 2nd Wednesday of the month for the first 4 issues, then issue 5 is on the 20th of November, the 3rd Wednesday. So it feels like there was a bit of a scramble to get issue 5 out that month at all. But if MacDonald is the new artist going forward, you'd think they'd have just continued on from there, not skip another couple months. so it feels to me like kinda were looking for a new permanent replacement that's not him. But I could be wrong. Still holding out hope that maybe they were waiting on Babs Tarr finishing up her thing so she can jump on to Loki, but it could be just about anyone. And we get a sort of relaunch/do-over when the new artist comes aboard.

    but it could also be kinda both. New artist AND story tie-in with Thor.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-30-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  13. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Artist or Thor tie in stuff seem most likely. Though with tie-in stuff, you'd think they could have either padded out the first arc for another issue or two, or make the Wolverine thing 2 issues, or done another done in one issue where he flashes back to a different period of time, i mean not like they are going to run out of potential material as far as flashbacks go, since he's over a thousand years old. Lots of potential ground to cover from medieval to Victorian (like, 1850's kinda stuff, before Wolverine, which is Edwardian, i guess), or any point in between... and you know, it just occurred to me, the sliding timescale keeps opening up potential flashbacks from the 60's through to the... i guess we're at the MU starting (as in formation of the Fantastic Four) during the early 2000's. Which is kind of mind boggling to me since that is after i started reading the books. I mean i kinda didn't get much into Marvel until very late 90s, i was more into Vertigo (RIP) before that, but still. Could be interesting to explore that aspect, for sure. Flash back to the 80's or 90's and it's BEFORE the FF formed even though that happened in the 60's in a publishing sense, and the stories reflect that. Explore how the past shifted and changed.

    anyway yeah... Art troubles seems likely given that there were the multiple artists on issue 4, and we do have a different artist on issue 5. It's release schedule slipped with issue 5 too, it was 2nd Wednesday of the month for the first 4 issues, then issue 5 is on the 20th of November, the 3rd Wednesday. So it feels like there was a bit of a scramble to get issue 5 out that month at all. But if MacDonald is the new artist going forward, you'd think they'd have just continued on from there, not skip another couple months. so it feels to me like kinda were looking for a new permanent replacement that's not him. But I could be wrong. Still holding out hope that maybe they were waiting on Babs Tarr finishing up her thing so she can jump on to Loki, but it could be just about anyone. And we get a sort of relaunch/do-over when the new artist comes aboard.

    but it could also be kinda both. New artist AND story tie-in with Thor.
    This is a pretty risky move, so Marvel must have something big planned with this if they feel sure about it.

  14. #1439
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  15. #1440
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    That's adorable lol

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