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  1. #526
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    MJ's decision is her getting an actual job, throwing Peter's life into upheaval as he enters full-leech mode.
    LOL, now that would be awkward.
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  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    LOL, now that would be awkward.
    It's been a constant beat in their relationship for decades now that MJ earned/earns more than Peter does, and despite starting in more or less the same background as he, has done far better and had more to show for herself than Peter does despite being the same age. So it's nothing new. Of course Mary Jane also faces the same setbacks and career imbalances that Peter has, but it doesn't affect her as badly as Peter. And you know even if Peter earned more than MJ and MJ was the stay-at-home home-maker, he'd still be a leech since housewives do the lion's share of cleaning, cooking, and maintenance stuff and all done for free. Division of housework and so on is still an issue, and I think Peter's maybe better at that, though MJ does get him to stop walking up walls and ceilings pointing out it would be hard for her to clean up such out of reach places which suggests that it's still her who does it.

    I kind of feel that making an issue of women earning more than men and calling the guy a leech for that, and not for everything else, sends a bad message, especially given the reality of the "wage gap" where it's hard for women to earn more than men doing the same jobs and female products are priced higher than the corresponding men's item.

    I think MJ's job being politics would throw a huge wrench, because that means more public spotlight on her, and by implication him. There will be political talking points about MJ dating a guy when "she's clearly out of his league" and if Spencer wants to be really dark, he can have tabloids call MJ on staying with a guy who humiliated her by not showing up on their wedding day (as per OMIT). That fact isn't brought up once since...to the extent people acknowledge OMD, nobody actually acknowledges the events of OMIT.

    Spencer also set up in Issue #8 or 9 in that panel where MJ has her go through different jobs :actress, model, business-owner, Stark CEO. Obviously politics is missing there.

  3. #528
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's been a constant beat in their relationship for decades now that MJ earned/earns more than Peter does, and despite starting in more or less the same background as he, has done far better and had more to show for herself than Peter does despite being the same age. So it's nothing new...
    True enough, I've always hated the concept of Peter the glorified bum (regardless of his noble reasons for being such) but to each their own. If Otto was right about anything during his stint in Pete's body it is that Peter should be doing much better than he is.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-23-2019 at 04:56 PM.
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  4. #529
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    I have a conflict. I would love to see Mary Jane becoming a spider, just like in the Renew Your Vows' reality. Problem is, there's two main suits perfect for her, but I don't know which one would be the best.

    - One of them is Mary Jane wearing Venom's symbiote like in RYV. It looked so dawn good!! Problem is, she looks like WAY TOO MUCH to Julia Carpenter as the second Spider-Woman. Still, I can't stop thinking she looks great, putting aside Venom's personality. And because of the color, I can't stop thinking this suit would fit better for Felicia Hardy/Black Cat.

    - The other option would be the Iron Spider's armor. The color perfectly suits MJ, although I would like to see her with the mouth and hair revealed, like other Spider-Women. But the problem is the fact of being "high tech suit" from Iron Man's style. She would need help to control it properly.

    What do you think of these two options?

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    True enough, I've always hated the concept of Peter the glorified bum (regardless of his noble reasons for being such) but to each their own.
    Peter was employed as a photographer and he did publish that book of photographs with royalties earned of sales from that, and he got employed as a scientist for Garid, and then he became a high school teacher. The latter especially was the longest he held a serious real job in comics history which ended after he exposed his identity.

    So I don't think it's fair to call him a "glorified bum" just for having low-paying and low-profile jobs. That strikes me as classism and snobbism. And also making a big to-do about Peter's wife earning more than him which raises the issue that it's somehow normal and preferable that women earn less than their husbands.

    If Otto was right about anything during his stint in Pete's body it is that Peter should be doing much better than he is.
    The opinion of a person who at various times has been a terrorist, a gangster, and in that instance, someone who commits identity theft and fraud on the character of a person who has never been either of those things matters not a jot to me. Trash like Otto make trash opinions to justify their trash personalities and way of living being that their living garbage piles.

    And in any case, the idea of "Peter should be doing much better than he is" is based on this idea that "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich" which again is not true to life and history. And again it's not even fair in the context of the Marvel Universe. I mean why is Tony Stark successful, it's not because of him mass-marketing the Arc Reactor technology or anything. Nope, his wealth comes from A) Daddy was rich, B) He made weapons and kept doing that for most of his adult life, and even after he's reformed he still has the ill-gotten capital from that period of his life. C) Recent writers have Tony take credit for actual real-world inventions (at least offscreen) done by a myriad of other people.

    So I think relatively speaking Peter's not so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    - One of them is Mary Jane wearing Venom's symbiote like in RYV. It looked so dawn good!! Problem is, she looks like WAY TOO MUCH to Julia Carpenter as the second Spider-Woman. Still, I can't stop thinking she looks great, putting aside Venom's personality. And because of the color, I can't stop thinking this suit would fit better for Felicia Hardy/Black Cat.
    Venom remember is the figure that reduced Mary Jane to a mess and gave her a lot of PTSD and personal trauma. That was one of many objections people had about that particular moment. It's like Bruce Wayne cosplaying as Joe Chill.

    - The other option would be the Iron Spider's armor. The color perfectly suits MJ, although I would like to see her with the mouth and hair revealed, like other Spider-Women. But the problem is the fact of being "high tech suit" from Iron Man's style. She would need help to control it properly.
    My guess is that it's pretty user-friendly and so on. And MJ has lived with Peter and she's worked for Tony so maybe she picked enough from there. But deep down MJ prefers Peter's red-and-blue.

    What do you think of these two options?
    The thing about MJ is "she doesn't need to be a hero or wear a mask". Gwen Stacy does, Felicia does, but not her. She's already a big character, bigger than many heroines, all the time she was a supporting character. It's great when she gets powers and all that, but I think you take away from the civilian supporting cast of the general Marvel Universe by removing one of the two biggest characters there.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 06-23-2019 at 07:21 PM.

  6. #531
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    @ Revolutionary_Jack I don't think it is being "snobbish" or I'm being a "classist" to want Peter to have a stable, well-paying job by this stage in his life. I'm so damn tired of reading about down and out Peter Parker. But hey, if that turns your crank more power to you.
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  7. #532
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    @ Revolutionary_Jack I don't think it is being "snobbish" or I'm being a "classist" to want Peter to have a stable, well-paying job by this stage in his life. I'm so damn tired of reading about down and out Peter Parker. But hey, if that turns your crank more power to you.
    money problems shouldn't be a issue anymore dude been around for 62 years in story he is still in his 20s (I think they keep that sliding timeline). I think writers should be allow to give him a stable career now.
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

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  8. #533
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I'm all for the prediction many others have had that MJ's big change is running for mayor, which I think would be a great choice. Her main appealing factor is her eccentric and electric personality, and each one of her jobs, even all the way up to working for Stark, has had her in very "theatric" roles, being the voice and face that attracts attention, so her gunning for mayor makes complete sense for her as a character. Plus it gives her an in to help and protect the city in her own way alongside Spider-Man.

  9. #534
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I'm all for the prediction many others have had that MJ's big change is running for mayor, which I think would be a great choice....
    I agree that her running for mayor would be an excellent storyline and one which would also be refreshingly original.
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  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'm so damn tired of reading about down and out Peter Parker. But hey, if that turns your crank more power to you.
    I prefer down-and-out Peter to the stuff that Slott did, give him a job that he got because May pulled strings to get him working at Horizon, have him work a company and gain a degree that Otto did in his body and then have him saddled with a company, role, and position (billionaire industrialist) that obviously would never last and never fit the character. Then after that Peter gets another job he's not qualified for -- science editor for the Bugle, despite writing never being a skill he was shown to have demonstrated once.

    In Slott's case, it was unearned success and progression that never felt organic and which you can clearly see is set up for a fall. And it felt ridiculous because it can't really be addressed. If you treat Peter logically he's a bigger loser Post-Slott than Pre-Slott. Before you could say Peter's best days are ahead of him, that he hasn't gotten his big break, and that whatever position he was given he did well. Now you would look at Peter and see a guy who has been given opportunities for success that others never get in a lifetime and blew it away. In real-life someone who becomes rich at his 20s and loses his company and in the process lays off workers, all built on a plagiarized degree would be considered among the Martin Shkrelli or the Theranos or the dotcom bubble failures.

    Whereas in the case of JMS, when Peter became a high school teacher, you might think from the outset that this won't last forever but the manner in which it was undone isn't typical or expected, and it felt like a logical consequence of the clash between Peter's civilian and superhero stuff. And it felt tragic because Peter was a good high school teacher. It was a job he liked, he did it well, and students liked him and it fit the character. Whereas in Slott's case it never felt like Peter was actually being good or making an effort, so what happened to him never felt tragic. It was "unearned success is followed by earned and deserved failure but we are still expected to treat this like tragedy because the writer says so".

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I'm all for the prediction many others have had that MJ's big change is running for mayor, which I think would be a great choice.
    Let's not get too fond because if Spencer goes in another direction, we might not give that a fair chance and shake. It's a theory that I think might happen but we can't know if it will happen. Maybe this is a break-up issue who knows.

    Her main appealing factor is her eccentric and electric personality, and each one of her jobs, even all the way up to working for Stark, has had her in very "theatric" roles, being the voice and face that attracts attention, so her gunning for mayor makes complete sense for her as a character. Plus it gives her an in to help and protect the city in her own way alongside Spider-Man.
    And of course politics is a job that is seasonal, comes and goes, and so on. I don't know what the Age of Candidacy is for New York Mayoral Office but there have been mayors as young as 26. If MJ, like Peter is "mid-20s" she would qualify. And who knows she might not win, it could be she plays spoiler between her and Kingpin and gets the boring middle-road politician to win but her candidacy played a part in weakening Fisk, that could happen.

  11. #536
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think Mary Jane running for mayor would make for an interesting storyline although I don't see it being more meaningful then a "just for this run" thing (and even if she does win, I don't see her in the position long).

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I agree that her running for mayor would be an excellent storyline and one which would also be refreshingly original.
    Perhaps it will inspire Peter to accept Kurt Conner's offer.

  13. #538
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Mary Jane running for mayor would make for an interesting storyline although I don't see it being more meaningful then a "just for this run" thing (and even if she does win, I don't see her in the position long).
    Bear in mind, Zdarsky would be involved in this storyline too, as it would crossover into Daredevil.
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  14. #539
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Bear in mind, Zdarsky would be involved in this storyline too, as it would crossover into Daredevil.
    Spiderman is reappearing in Daredevil for issue 11 but it's mainly for that new cop Cole storyline
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  15. #540
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I prefer down-and-out Peter to the stuff that Slott did,....
    On this point, we agree. while CEO Peter could theoretically work putting him in such a position without earning it first (PI only existed because of Otto) is not the best way to achieve such a dramatic shift in status quo.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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