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  1. #1096
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the characters with the most personality are Peter, Harry, and Doc Ock, and they're probably the only characters the show really extensively developed.

    I think it'll be remembered as the first piece of Spider-Man media to properly adapt Superior.
    Superior Spider-Man is just kind of another story in the grand scheme of things. Yes, the fandom overreacted and the threats against Slott were wrong. Superior, in the long run, is still just another Spider-Man story. And there are lots of Spider-Man stories out there.

    And maybe for the first animated appearance of Anya Corazon as Spider-Girl.
    I don't think this show made Anya particularly popular.

    Of course it could also be remembered for all it's squandered potential...but I'd like to think it'll be better remembered then USM on principle.
    Is it better to be remembered as being bad or is it better not to be remembered at all?
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 11-19-2019 at 02:34 PM.

  2. #1097
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Is it better to be remembered as being bad or is it better not to be remembered at all?
    If you are remembered for being bad, there's still a chance that you'll be retconned or fixed in some way. If you're completely forgotten, that seems much less likely...unless Grant Morrison decides to write you. Grant Morrison: Mary Jane Watson: The Psychedelic Sixties Girl Who Knew All The Secrets
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  3. #1098
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Superior Spider-Man is just kind of another story in the grand scheme of things. Yes, the fandom overreacted and the threats against Slott were wrong. Superior, in the long run, is still just another Spider-Man story. And there are lots of Spider-Man stories out there.
    Superior was probably one of the bigger storylines of the past few years, as controversial as it was. Most people would probably cite it as the true high point of Slott's run.
    I don't think this show made Anya particularly popular.
    Maybe not, but her presence was noteworthy nonetheless, especially when the comics were doing nothing with her at the time.
    Is it better to be remembered as being bad or is it better not to be remembered at all?
    Who would want to be remembered for being bad ?

  4. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The show barely has any romance and barely utilizes it's supporting cast as is. Really, I don't see how they could have given MJ a significant role.

    She was a significant character in the first season of Ultimate Spider-Man but they kept downplaying her the longer that series went along. It wasn't until the last stretch that they actually had her be relevant again but then they needed to turn her into a Superhero to make her a main character.

    She was a major supporting character in the MTV cartoon, and in Spec even when she wasn't the love interest.
    I forgot about the MTV show. That said I will say she was definitely more of a supporting character in Spec. However, that is of no fault of the show, as Mary Jane was getting development (we saw small cracks in her party girl facade in the Molten Man episode), but it was sadly cut short before they could dig even deeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Is it better to be remembered as being bad or is it better not to be remembered at all?
    Debra Whitman (as a love interest) vs Cissy Ironwood? Hmm... I see your point.

  5. #1100
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Superior was probably one of the bigger storylines of the past few years, as controversial as it was. Most people would probably cite it as the true high point of Slott's run.
    Not to belabor a point, but in the grand scheme of things, Slott's run is just another run. There have been lots of people who have worked on Spider-Man comics. And there will continue to be people who worked on Spider-Man comics. (Basically the argument is if you aren't the first writer or the current writer, you're yesterday's news.)

    Maybe not, but her presence was noteworthy nonetheless, especially when the comics were doing nothing with her at the time.
    Is she particularly noteworthy in the show? I really didn't think much of her when I was watching.

    Who would want to be remembered for being bad ?
    That's not really answering the question.

  6. #1101
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post

    Is it better to be remembered as being bad or is it better not to be remembered at all?
    depends on whats considered bad. I think teen titans go is horrible funny but still horrible yet they already had like 200 plus episodes and will probably be regarded as one of the best cartoons of all time. Plus the ones who is doing the remembering and delivering a shows judgment are probably those 5-12 years old who is the targeted audience anyways
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  7. #1102
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Not to belabor a point, but in the grand scheme of things, Slott's run is just another run. There have been lots of people who have worked on Spider-Man comics. And there will continue to be people who worked on Spider-Man comics. (Basically the argument is if you aren't the first writer or the current writer, you're yesterday's news.)
    I don't think that is a knock against Superior being a memorable storyline.
    Is she particularly noteworthy in the show? I really didn't think much of her when I was watching.
    You probably stopped watching before she got her powers and became Spider-Girl (I assume).

  8. #1103
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the point about the show not making her popular is true. Throughout the show's entire run, where the hell has she been in the comics? Spider-Geddon is the only thing she's been in!

    I know one thing this show will be remembered for - not having MJ!

  9. #1104
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think that is a knock against Superior being a memorable storyline.
    We never have gotten a "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" adaptation in animation. Superior Spider-Man (original story) has already been over for five years. Eventually it will be 10 years. And then 20. Etc. The point is that not every Spidey cartoon is going to have a Superior arc to call its own. There will be other stories to adapt in the future.

    You probably stopped watching before she got her powers and became Spider-Girl (I assume).
    I stopped around Spider-Island. I watched far more of a series I found dull than I should have. But I never really see people discuss the show except around here. And I spend quite a bit of time online. I just don't think the show is making any kind of major impact or anything.

    I honestly think MJ's lack of prominence in this show might have more to do with her being a part of the last show, and this show trying to establish its own identity by pulling away from the elements that the production team may have felt defined the last show. I would be surprised if the next Spidey cartoon didn't have MJ in some form (maybe they'll take some MCU inspiration there).

  10. #1105
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Ouch. Resume where you left off please - Spider-Island is where Anya got her powers (just like in the comics, the only difference is that show Anya was never Arana). Gwen got hers there too, but lost them only to get them restored in season 2.

  11. #1106
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    I really miss Spectacular.

    What crummy luck that we lost Spectacular, WatXM and Earth's Mightiest Heroes. It sucks because all three were critically acclaimed and loved by fans, yet the follow up series that we got were hated by (mostly) everyone and lasted way longer.

  12. #1107
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    We never have gotten a "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" adaptation in animation. Superior Spider-Man (original story) has already been over for five years. Eventually it will be 10 years. And then 20. Etc. The point is that not every Spidey cartoon is going to have a Superior arc to call its own. There will be other stories to adapt in the future.
    I think Superior is a bit more significant then "Nothing can Stop the Juggernaut," much as I love a good Spidey/Juggernaut tussle.

    Of course not every adaption is going to use a Superior adaption. Heck, we've only seen the marriage really adapted once. I have my doubts it's going to become like the Black Suit saga which is almost a pre-requisite of any Spider-Man cartoon (except USM). Although sometimes shows are remembered for the major storylines that they got to be the first one's to adapt.
    I stopped around Spider-Island. I watched far more of a series I found dull than I should have. But I never really see people discuss the show except around here. And I spend quite a bit of time online. I just don't think the show is making any kind of major impact or anything.
    Where exactly are you looking? I mean, I know the thread here can sometimes slow down but it moves along at times, and I'm on a forum that has fairly solid discussion for the show.
    I honestly think MJ's lack of prominence in this show might have more to do with her being a part of the last show, and this show trying to establish its own identity by pulling away from the elements that the production team may have felt defined the last show. I would be surprised if the next Spidey cartoon didn't have MJ in some form (maybe they'll take some MCU inspiration there).
    That doesn't really explain Harry, Norman, and even Otto being as prominent as they are.

    If I think of things that defined USM, Mary Jane was definitely not one of them. Maybe her becoming a Spider-Woman via the Carnage Symbiote, which just goes to show you how random that show could be.

    I hope we don't get more MCU-ified Marvel cartoons.

  13. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    I really miss Spectacular.

    What crummy luck that we lost Spectacular, WatXM and Earth's Mightiest Heroes. It sucks because all three were critically acclaimed and loved by fans, yet the follow up series that we got were hated by (mostly) everyone and lasted way longer.
    Oh yeah it was quite the blowout. It reminds me of that Twilight Zone parody in Futurama where the guy is the last surviving human in a library where he has all the time in the world to read books. Then his glasses (Spectacular) fall off and breaks, he exclaims ďitís not fair...oh wait my eyes arenít that bad I can still read large print books (Wolverine and the X-Men) then his eye balls fall out of his head. He then exclaims that at least he could read Braille (Earthís Mightiest Heroes)...then his hands fall off.

    To bring this back to Miss Watson, with a lack of romance in recent Spider-Man animation it almost seems like the only way to have her introduced in this modern cartoon is to give her Spider Powers (but we see how
    much that has done for supporting characters of this show). Maybe her not appearing is for the better as we see how characters added out of obligation turn out.

  14. #1109
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Superior is a bit more significant then "Nothing can Stop the Juggernaut," much as I love a good Spidey/Juggernaut tussle.

    Of course not every adaption is going to use a Superior adaption. Heck, we've only seen the marriage really adapted once. I have my doubts it's going to become like the Black Suit saga which is almost a pre-requisite of any Spider-Man cartoon (except USM). Although sometimes shows are remembered for the major storylines that they got to be the first one's to adapt.
    I dunno. For all the drama and annoying fan reaction that surrounded it, I don't think Superior is going to be one of the defining Spider-Man stories going forward. Probably because it's too far outside the standard Doc Ock story. (That isn't to say it's going to be completely forgotten or anything.)

    Where exactly are you looking? I mean, I know the thread here can sometimes slow down but it moves along at times, and I'm on a forum that has fairly solid discussion for the show.
    Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places or following the right people. This is really the only Spider-Man place I am around online. But I hardly see it brought up on social media. I have a fairly decent idea of what happened in the Duck Tales reboot or Gravity Falls back in its day despite not totally keeping up with them (or even watching an episode of Gravity Falls at all). It just doesn't seem all that popular outside of its bubble, but maybe I'm way off-base and its an incredibly popular show. (I just thought it was really dull.)

    That doesn't really explain Harry, Norman, and even Otto being as prominent as they are.
    That definitely feels like Slott's influence over the show. If it makes you feel better, the next Spidey show should be heavily influenced by Nick Spencer and whoever comes after him.

    If I think of things that defined USM, Mary Jane was definitely not one of them. Maybe her becoming a Spider-Woman via the Carnage Symbiote, which just goes to show you how random that show could be.
    If they had MJ in this show and had her become Spinneret, would that make you feel better?

    I hope we don't get more MCU-ified Marvel cartoons.
    Seems kinda late for that.

  15. #1110
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If we depict her as a straight-laced reporter.

    When Betty's a crazy person, then she really takes off .
    Thing is that, her crazyness is gone, now she's just "Lois Lane, minus sassiness".

    A fan asked at a panel if all the "classic" characters would show up, including her, and they said they would all appear eventually...I guess they counted what was b
    Man, if other characters show up like she did, then might as well not have bothered.

    And maybe for the first animated appearance of Anya Corazon as Spider-Girl.
    The dozens of Anya's fans were happy I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Who would want to be remembered for being bad ?
    There's the thing where even negative publicity can be seen as a good thing.

    Hell, it's why Clone Saga gets trade paperbacks, there's probably plenty of people who buy it to see why most people hate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    I really miss Spectacular.

    What crummy luck that we lost Spectacular, WatXM and Earth's Mightiest Heroes. It sucks because all three were critically acclaimed and loved by fans, yet the follow up series that we got were hated by (mostly) everyone and lasted way longer.
    To be fair, I'm not sure if losing AEMH is that much of a loss, season 1 was pretty good, but season 2 was must meh in everything except the Skrull invasion, and then that finale with Galactus... Yeah, maybe season 3 could be good though, but with how much season 2 dropped the quality, I'd have some doubts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That definitely feels like Slott's influence over the show. If it makes you feel better, the next Spidey show should be heavily influenced by Nick Spencer and whoever comes after him.
    Hopefully no Kindred if that's the case, shit related to demons are part of comics Spidey's story since Demogoblin became a thing, but that's because of the shared universe, so Kindred is part of this very small group, a cartoon having him, or Demogoblin, would raise eyebrows lol.

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