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  1. #481

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I kind of doubt they looked to DeFalco's work when it came to writing Michelle.
    They alluded to The Commuter Commuteth in the last movie and that's a fill-in during Defalco's run. I also think they are going to allude to Parallel Lives, since they implied she knew a lot about Peter in the first movie, and that's how they'll bring in Uncle Ben's death in this continuity. That's a secret Peter hasn't told Ned Leeds, Tony Stark, May, but she will know. Of course the impact of parallel lives is diluted since so many people know his identity when originally MJ was the first member of Peter's long-running supporting cast to find out, and of course Bendis' Ultimate equivalent of that (USM #13) doesn't work because Ultimate MJ's role as his sidekick/confidant is given to Ganke Ned.

    I think if they had intended her to be more overtly Mary Jane they probably would have gone with a depiction that was more in-line with what people expect or usually imagine the character as.
    The idea and hope I guess with these Sony-Marvel MCU movies is that slowly they're going to make their short-notice quickly patched-in continuity Spider-Man become the traditional and classic take on the character and setting, and do it in a way that makes it fresh and avoids Raimi-nostalgia. So the idea was to introduce Michelle Jones as a kinda-sorta-maybe-couldbe version of MJ in Homecoming before making a commitment.

  2. #482
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    They alluded to The Commuter Commuteth in the last movie and that's a fill-in during Defalco's run. I also think they are going to allude to Parallel Lives, since they implied she knew a lot about Peter in the first movie, and that's how they'll bring in Uncle Ben's death in this continuity. That's a secret Peter hasn't told Ned Leeds, Tony Stark, May, but she will know. Of course the impact of parallel lives is diluted since so many people know his identity when originally MJ was the first member of Peter's long-running supporting cast to find out, and of course Bendis' Ultimate equivalent of that (USM #13) doesn't work because Ultimate MJ's role as his sidekick/confidant is given to Ganke Ned.
    Could be.
    The idea and hope I guess with these Sony-Marvel MCU movies is that slowly they're going to make their short-notice quickly patched-in continuity Spider-Man become the traditional and classic take on the character and setting, and do it in a way that makes it fresh and avoids Raimi-nostalgia. So the idea was to introduce Michelle Jones as a kinda-sorta-maybe-couldbe version of MJ in Homecoming before making a commitment.
    I mean, I've always been hopeful that we'd get to see Holland grow into the real Spider-Man since the end of Homecoming but I think it'll be tough to move way from the Stark element holding that back and how they write him.

    If Zendaya at some points get to actually be the Mary Jane Watson most people were expecting, great. I think it might be a bit too early to expect that though.

  3. #483
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    ...I never had issues with Zendaya, I wished they called her Mary Jane from the start. To me it's a little cowardly to reimagine an iconic character and not have that reimagined character have that name....
    I couldn't possibly agree with you any more than I on this matter, bravo, well put.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  4. #484
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Could be.

    I mean, I've always been hopeful that we'd get to see Holland grow into the real Spider-Man since the end of Homecoming but I think it'll be tough to move way from the Stark element holding that back and how they write him.

    If Zendaya at some points get to actually be the Mary Jane Watson most people were expecting, great. I think it might be a bit too early to expect that though.
    The real Spider-Man??? Is that what you just said?
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  5. #485
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    The real Spider-Man??? Is that what you just said?
    I'm pretty sure he is just being subjective cause into the spider verse says anyone can wear the mask
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  6. #486
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    I'm pretty sure he is just being subjective cause into the spider verse says anyone can wear the mask
    I sure hope so....because if not, I was about to say some things.
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  7. #487
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    The real Spider-Man??? Is that what you just said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    I'm pretty sure he is just being subjective cause into the spider verse says anyone can wear the mask
    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I sure hope so....because if not, I was about to say some things.
    I mean, I don't think we're supposed to view Holland with his super-teched out Starksuit courtesy of Tony Stark as what Spider-Man is actually supposed to be like, because Spider-Man's never needed that stuff, that's the point of him using the prototype suit at the end. Like, compare Holland to Spec Spidey and it's a pretty stark contrast.

    Into the Spider-Verse was also pretty upfront about what it takes to be Spider-Man and I think Holland is only slowly getting there.

  8. #488
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I don't think we're supposed to view Holland with his super-teched out Starksuit courtesy of Tony Stark as what Spider-Man is actually supposed to be like, because Spider-Man's never needed that stuff, that's the point of him using the prototype suit at the end. Like, compare Holland to Spec Spidey and it's a pretty stark contrast.

    Into the Spider-Verse was also pretty upfront about what it takes to be Spider-Man and I think Holland is only slowly getting there.
    No, no, no: you've got it completely wrong. "The real Spider-Man" isn't about tech and gadgets: it's about heart, sacrifice, pain, love, and joy. Does Holland embody that? Maybe, maybe not (he's also had one movie, soon to be two). So that's the issue I'm having with your statement. I much don't care if you don't like the gadgets, because that's always been a part of the character (Spider-Buggy anyone?). It just matters that, like Jman27 said, "anyone can wear the mask": even a teched out Stark fanboy (and I don't mean that in a bad way).
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  9. #489
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    No, no, no: you've got it completely wrong. "The real Spider-Man" isn't about tech and gadgets: it's about heart, sacrifice, pain, love, and joy. Does Holland embody that? Maybe, maybe not (he's also had one movie, soon to be two). So that's the issue I'm having with your statement. I much don't care if you don't like the gadgets, because that's always been a part of the character (Spider-Buggy anyone?). It just matters that, like Jman27 said, "anyone can wear the mask": even a teched out Stark fanboy (and I don't mean that in a bad way).
    But I thought the message of Homecoming was that being a teched out Stark fanboy worked against him being Spider-Man, which was the whole point of the the final sequence proving that he can actually win without all of that.

    Basically watching this kid get powers and hero worships The Avengers go from that to actually acting like Spider-Man is supposed to. I don't think this has anything to do with a "anyone can wear the mask" thing.

    Just like that sequence in Into the Spider-Verse where Miles puts on the costume and comes in to save the day on his own and finally becoming Spider-Man after his Leap of Faith.

  10. #490
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But I thought the message of Homecoming was that being a teched out Stark fanboy worked against him being Spider-Man, which was the whole point of the the final sequence proving that he can actually win without all of that.

    Basically watching this kid get powers and hero worships The Avengers go from that to actually acting like Spider-Man is supposed to. I don't think this has anything to do with a "anyone can wear the mask" thing.

    Just like that sequence in Into the Spider-Verse where Miles puts on the costume and comes in to save the day on his own and finally becoming Spider-Man after his Leap of Faith.
    Sounds to me like you're projecting a bit.
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  11. #491
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I don't think we're supposed to view Holland with his super-teched out Starksuit courtesy of Tony Stark as what Spider-Man is actually supposed to be like, because Spider-Man's never needed that stuff, that's the point of him using the prototype suit at the end...
    That's what I disliked most about the Spider-Man we saw during Homecoming. Peter shouldn't need Tony Stark, or anyone else, to be Spider-Man for better or worse he would rely on himself.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  12. #492
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Sounds to me like you're projecting a bit.
    Maybe. Hard to get a figure for how the MCU filmmakers view Spidey and his world sometimes .

  13. #493
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    That's what I disliked most about the Spider-Man we saw during Homecoming. Peter shouldn't need Tony Stark, or anyone else, to be Spider-Man for better or worse he would rely on himself.
    While I tend to agree, I think we still need to give him a chance. Too many people wrote him off entirely based on "Homecoming," which is totally unfair. I say give him at least "Far From Home" and then we'll see how he stacks as Spider-Man. We at least know he makes the red and black suit himself, so that's a plus for me.
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  14. #494
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    While I tend to agree, I think we still need to give him a chance. Too many people wrote him off entirely based on "Homecoming," which is totally unfair. I say give him at least "Far From Home" and then we'll see how he stacks as Spider-Man. We at least know he makes the red and black suit himself, so that's a plus for me.
    Oh, I agree. I was simply pointing out why I did not like Spider-Man in Homecoming. My hope for Far From Home is this version of Spidey becomes his own fully realized character rather than a Stark fanboy turned semi-side kick.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  15. #495
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Oh, I agree. I was simply pointing out why I did not like Spider-Man in Homecoming. My hope for Far From Home is this version of Spidey becomes his own fully realized character rather than a Stark fanboy turned semi-side kick.
    Agreed, my friend!
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