Legion of Super-Heroes Appreciation 2019 [Long Live the Legion!]

[Anthony Shaw]

Speaking of timey-wimey......

What about Mon-El?

Did he originate from the same world as the pocket universe Superboy?

Or, did he actually meet the real Jor-El, but was somehow sent to the pocket universe by the Time Trapper?

[Lee Stone]

All good points. It's been too long since I read COIE but it looks like they did cover the Supergirl/Legion time situation.

Yeah. I think if Byrne had just did a relaunch of Superman, and not a full reboot, a lot of the Legion/Supergirl/Superboy confusion of Crisis would've been avoided.
Crisis (and Legion) had already covered it all and put it to rest.

Man of Steel threw everything out the window and contradicted both Crisis and the Legion issue that resolved Supergirl's death with its effect on Brainiac 5.
Not only did it erase Supergirl and her involvement with the Legion, including her relationship with Brainiac 5, it also erased her sacrifice being a major impact on Kimiyo Hoshi.

[caj]

Yeah. I think if Byrne had just did a relaunch of Superman, and not a full reboot, a lot of the Legion/Supergirl/Superboy confusion of Crisis would've been avoided.
Crisis (and Legion) had already covered it all and put it to rest.

Man of Steel threw everything out the window and contradicted both Crisis and the Legion issue that resolved Supergirl's death with its effect on Brainiac 5.
Not only did it erase Supergirl and her involvement with the Legion, including her relationship with Brainiac 5, it also erased her sacrifice being a major impact on Kimiyo Hoshi.

Agree with all of this. Byrne really put the screws to Legion of Super Heroes with Man of Steel reboot.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Speaking of timey-wimey......

What about Mon-El?

Did he originate from the same world as the pocket universe Superboy?

Or, did he actually meet the real Jor-El, but was somehow sent to the pocket universe by the Time Trapper?

I think the second option is how it is understood to be -- at least as far as the post-Crisis, pre-5YL continuity is concerned.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Yeah. I think if Byrne had just did a relaunch of Superman, and not a full reboot, a lot of the Legion/Supergirl/Superboy confusion of Crisis would've been avoided.
Crisis (and Legion) had already covered it all and put it to rest.

Man of Steel threw everything out the window and contradicted both Crisis and the Legion issue that resolved Supergirl's death with its effect on Brainiac 5.
Not only did it erase Supergirl and her involvement with the Legion, including her relationship with Brainiac 5, it also erased her sacrifice being a major impact on Kimiyo Hoshi.

Well, separate from Supergirl, I don't blame the Byrne reboot for how the Legion was screwed up.

To be sure, they had to come up with SOME solution as to how to deal with Superboy, but the Pocket Universe thing was as good an idea as any. This kept Superboy's continuity in the Legion and that was far more important than Supergirl's.

What really screwed over the Legion was that after they came up with the Pocket Universe angle, the Superman office issued a later edict that NO Superboy was to have ever participated in the Legion, not even a Trapper-creation.

So, Byrne's 1986 reboot caused some problems, but they were addressed and the series was able to movie forward without dramatically contradicting its past. However, the 1989 edict--enacted in the 5YL direction--necessitated substituting Mon-El (as Valor) in Superboy's place, which rewrote everything, and the 5YL Legion only became more convoluted.

[Lee Stone]

Well, separate from Supergirl, I don't blame the Byrne reboot for how the Legion was screwed up.

To be sure, they had to come up with SOME solution as to how to deal with Superboy, but the Pocket Universe thing was as good an idea as any. This kept Superboy's continuity in the Legion and that was far more important than Supergirl's.

What really screwed over the Legion was that after they came up with the Pocket Universe angle, the Superman office issued a later edict that NO Superboy was to have ever participated in the Legion, not even a Trapper-creation.

So, Byrne's 1986 reboot caused some problems, but they were addressed and the series was able to movie forward without dramatically contradicting its past. However, the 1989 edict--enacted in the 5YL direction--necessitated substituting Mon-El (as Valor) in Superboy's place, which rewrote everything, and the 5YL Legion only became more convoluted.

True.

The Superboy edict kinda reminds me of the Supergirl one that prevented Levitz from keeping her as Sensor Girl.

[Sutekh]

True.

The Superboy edict kinda reminds me of the Supergirl one that prevented Levitz from keeping her as Sensor Girl.

In my headcanon, the masked identity of 'Sensor Girl' was shared by three women; Princess Projectra, taking time away from Orando in her post-mourning 'walkabout' (an Orandan custom to abandon your old life for a time to 'find yourself again' after the loss of a spouse), Saturn Girl (officially' retired, but unable to resist occasionally getting her hand in, and not wanting to 'un-retire' officially) and Kara Zor-El (a 'time remnant' of her that a distraught Brainy tried to save by pulling her away through time at the last moment, but turned out to only be a 'chronal echo' of her, with a fraction of her powers (mostly the super-senses) and memories (including *none* of ever having dated Brainy, to his further sadness)).

Have cake. Eat cake. Have yet more cake! It's the best of all possible worlds.

[caj]

True.

The Superboy edict kinda reminds me of the Supergirl one that prevented Levitz from keeping her as Sensor Girl.

Supergirl being Sensor Girl would've been great for sure. It probably would've diminished her sacrifice in COIE, but it still would've been great.

But it shows how good of a writer Levitz was that he was able to come up with the Projectra storyline after being told 'no' on using Supergirl.

[Nomads1]

Supergirl being Sensor Girl would've been great for sure. It probably would've diminished her sacrifice in COIE, but it still would've been great.

But it shows how good of a writer Levitz was that he was able to come up with the Projectra storyline after being told 'no' on using Supergirl.

Of course, we've never read what the story with Supergirl being Sensor Girl would be, but I find it really hard to believe that it could have turned out better than what we got with Projectra. Kudos to Levitz. Great writing.

Peace

[Anthony Shaw]

I think the second option is how it is understood to be -- at least as far as the post-Crisis, pre-5YL continuity is concerned.

That Time Trapper was a scheming bastard!

I have yet to read it, but the conspiracy story featuring Mon-El, Saturn Girl, Duo Damsel, and Brainiac 5 makes total sense.

I am hesitant to read the story because of what happened to Mon-El (my favorite Legionnaire), but he was doing his "brotherly" duty.

The whole Legion should have gone after Time Trapper for the simple fact that who knows what other shenanigans he was responsible for.


On a side note, it is interesting how the Time Trapper, Kang (from Marvel), and Doctor Who are all time travelering meddlers with multiple incarnations.

[Anthony Shaw]

Well, separate from Supergirl, I don't blame the Byrne reboot for how the Legion was screwed up.

To be sure, they had to come up with SOME solution as to how to deal with Superboy, but the Pocket Universe thing was as good an idea as any. This kept Superboy's continuity in the Legion and that was far more important than Supergirl's.

What really screwed over the Legion was that after they came up with the Pocket Universe angle, the Superman office issued a later edict that NO Superboy was to have ever participated in the Legion, not even a Trapper-creation.

So, Byrne's 1986 reboot caused some problems, but they were addressed and the series was able to movie forward without dramatically contradicting its past. However, the 1989 edict--enacted in the 5YL direction--necessitated substituting Mon-El (as Valor) in Superboy's place, which rewrote everything, and the 5YL Legion only became more convoluted.

I agree with all of this.

[Anthony Shaw]

Out of all the super teams from the Big Two from the silver to bronze age, being a Legionnaire had to have been the most dangerous organization to be a member of. This is despite the notion that the Legion was all about sunshine, and happy endings.

Legion stories were pretty dark before 5YL.

[Lee Stone]

Supergirl being Sensor Girl would've been great for sure. It probably would've diminished her sacrifice in COIE, but it still would've been great.

But it shows how good of a writer Levitz was that he was able to come up with the Projectra storyline after being told 'no' on using Supergirl.

Ironically, the main reason her use as Sensor Girl was vetoed by Jenette Kahn was to honor her and not cheapen her sacrifice.
So... the next logical thing is to erase her from existence... up to and including her sacrifice.

Matter of fact, Crisis, itself, was conveniently forgotten by all involved (except Psycho Pirate), so that DC wouldn't have to explain-

A. How the Post-Crisis DCU of 1986 became the Post-Crisis DCU of 1987 following Man of Steel.
B. How Crisis unfolded if Supergirl wasn't there to battle the Anti-Monitor.

[Lee Stone]

Out of all the super teams from the Big Two from the silver to bronze age, being a Legionnaire had to have been the most dangerous organization to be a member of. This is despite the notion that the Legion was all about sunshine, and happy endings.

Legion stories were pretty dark before 5YL.

I don't know if I would call them 'dark'. Just more 'substantial'.
Similar to how X-Men was with Claremont.

[signalman112]

The LSH help Superman and Batman on the cover of WORLD'S FINEST COMICS #284.

WorldsFinestComics284.jpg