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  1. #331
    Mighty Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Yep, I get that. But when you've flown to the heavens and beyond unaided, parasailing is hardly empowering.
    It does seem like a waste. Ewing has been the only to really use Monica in the past few years, he's the one who pushed her to those levels of cosmic awareness. And now he's put her back to factory settings.

    This truncated storyline of building up to phenomenal godlike power, and then a fall to something more manageable for other writers reminds me of how Ewing seemed to rush through Ava Ayala's storyline with the White Tiger god

  2. #332
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    It does seem like a waste. Ewing has been the only to really use Monica in the past few years, he's the one who pushed her to those levels of cosmic awareness. And now he's put her back to factory settings.

    This truncated storyline of building up to phenomenal godlike power, and then a fall to something more manageable for other writers reminds me of how Ewing seemed to rush through Ava Ayala's storyline with the White Tiger god
    They didn't have to do it. They should have just left Monica alone. It's like Ewing's backhanded point is that women ultimately don't deserve that kind of power...for whatever reason. But it's ok for the men to wield it, as was the case when Black Panther used the Tiger God's power to defeat Logos.

    It's a disturbing narrative, no matter how you look at it. Especially since we've already been down this road with Monica's powers being scaled back to sub-potentiality tier. For once, not only did we have a truly powerful woman in her own right, but an African American immortal. Not many of those running around the Marvel Universe; none, in fact. You could spend an hour jotting down names of all of the immortals, and I dare say you'll be hard pressed to name more than 5 Afrocentric immortals (heroes, mind you) who have appeared in more than 30 comics dating back to 1961 all combined. That's damningly pathetic.

    The best part about all of this, of course, is that a day after we celebrate Jackie Robinson for being the first African American in the Major Leagues, Ewing decides to send Monica back down to the farm system. More fuel to the debate that comics really is the last peculiar bastion of supremacism.
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." ~ Carl Sagan

  3. #333
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    They didn't have to do it. They should have just left Monica alone. It's like Ewing's backhanded point is that women ultimately don't deserve that kind of power...for whatever reason. But it's ok for the men to wield it, as was the case when Black Panther used the Tiger God's power to defeat Logos.

    It's a disturbing narrative, no matter how you look at it. Especially since we've already been down this road with Monica's powers being scaled back to sub-potentiality tier. For once, not only did we have a truly powerful woman in her own right, but an African American immortal. Not many of those running around the Marvel Universe; none, in fact. You could spend an hour jotting down names of all of the immortals, and I dare say you'll be hard pressed to name more than 5 Afrocentric immortals (heroes, mind you) who have appeared in more than 30 comics dating back to 1961 all combined. That's damningly pathetic.

    The best part about all of this, of course, is that a day after we celebrate Jackie Robinson for being the first African American in the Major Leagues, Ewing decides to send Monica back down to the farm system. More fuel to the debate that comics really is the last peculiar bastion of supremacism.
    But in the case of Black Panther beating Logos, at least as far as I can tell that was a one time thing under very specific circumstances. And I think similar to Monica, it was done more for a specific story than it was to actually alter the characters status quo. It served that one particular purpose.

    If Monica is at default power levesl, I honestly doubt we'll be able to tell the difference since Monica even at default power levels is usually more powerful than she needs to be in most circumstances. She already needs to get nerfed to be usable most of the time, so upgrading her further IMO really wasn't going to help her as far as being used more.

  4. #334
    Incredible Member baltiroo's Avatar
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    I understand the frustration at her power levels being diminished. But for me it feels more like her choice rather than the opposite. Of course I know it's the writer's behind it but I think that if the situation warranted it, Monica would unleash her full potential again and be the force she needs to be. She is choosing to try something different. To try and maintain a bit of normalcy in her life. I don't see that as a backlash on women with power, but as a woman with power making a decision to try to have it all. Will she? Can she? That is the question and I do hope that we get to see her test that soon.
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  5. #335
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    They didn't have to do it. They should have just left Monica alone. It's like Ewing's backhanded point is that women ultimately don't deserve that kind of power...for whatever reason. But it's ok for the men to wield it, as was the case when Black Panther used the Tiger God's power to defeat Logos.

    It's a disturbing narrative, no matter how you look at it. Especially since we've already been down this road with Monica's powers being scaled back to sub-potentiality tier. For once, not only did we have a truly powerful woman in her own right, but an African American immortal. Not many of those running around the Marvel Universe; none, in fact. You could spend an hour jotting down names of all of the immortals, and I dare say you'll be hard pressed to name more than 5 Afrocentric immortals (heroes, mind you) who have appeared in more than 30 comics dating back to 1961 all combined. That's damningly pathetic.

    The best part about all of this, of course, is that a day after we celebrate Jackie Robinson for being the first African American in the Major Leagues, Ewing decides to send Monica back down to the farm system. More fuel to the debate that comics really is the last peculiar bastion of supremacism.
    I think Storm became a Goddess recently.

    if she is like the Egyptian Gods then she is immortal as well.

  6. #336
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    I think Storm became a Goddess recently.

    if she is like the Egyptian Gods then she is immortal as well.
    No, she had god power channeled through her. But because of the way Coates wrote it, it's not real god power anyway. More like "spiritual belief" power.

  7. #337
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    No, she had god power channeled through her. But because of the way Coates wrote it, it's not real god power anyway. More like "spiritual belief" power.
    hm yeah, I knew it was a bit weird.

    but Kelly Thompson and Matthew Rosenberg said that Storm is a Goddess on Twitter.
    Last edited by GodThor; 04-18-2019 at 09:18 AM.

  8. #338
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    I think Storm became a Goddess recently.

    if she is like the Egyptian Gods then she is immortal as well.
    For now, but I can see them rolling that back as well...or at least de-emphasizing it. I don't recall there being many stories where Storm exists as an immortal in the far-flung future. And the X-Men have tons of those stories.
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  9. #339
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltiroo View Post
    I understand the frustration at her power levels being diminished. But for me it feels more like her choice rather than the opposite. Of course I know it's the writer's behind it but I think that if the situation warranted it, Monica would unleash her full potential again and be the force she needs to be. She is choosing to try something different. To try and maintain a bit of normalcy in her life. I don't see that as a backlash on women with power, but as a woman with power making a decision to try to have it all. Will she? Can she? That is the question and I do hope that we get to see her test that soon.
    It's zero sum, in the box thinking, when there's no call for it. The fact of the matter is Monica's choice is rooted in fear. She let fear be her guiding light. That's not Monica. Never has been. It flies in the face of previous characterization points for Monica going back to her very first appearances. And again, this is not something different. She had her power derailed before. She didn't like it. She's been human before. She wasn't exactly thrilled about that. Almost killed before? Ditto. She wasn't a fan. This is all on the writer forcing his own agenda in an attempt to limit Monica against the field.
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." ~ Carl Sagan

  10. #340
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    But in the case of Black Panther beating Logos, at least as far as I can tell that was a one time thing under very specific circumstances. And I think similar to Monica, it was done more for a specific story than it was to actually alter the characters status quo. It served that one particular purpose.

    If Monica is at default power levesl, I honestly doubt we'll be able to tell the difference since Monica even at default power levels is usually more powerful than she needs to be in most circumstances. She already needs to get nerfed to be usable most of the time, so upgrading her further IMO really wasn't going to help her as far as being used more.
    I don't think it's ever good to nerf characters to mask a writer's inadequacies. And it still doesn't address why more often than not, White males and their close representations keep their OP powers, while women alarmingly get scaled back more often than not, and while other ethnicities rarely if ever achieve OP status at all. Heck, some characters like Sentry, Thor and Hulk have OP status under multiple brandings. Normal Hulk wipes out most of the MU by himself, but no, let's make him World Breaker Hulk and Immortal Hulk, because, well, he has green cajones instead of a uterus, so it's perfectly ok.

    At the end of the day, they could have left Monica at OP level, but scaled the field to suit her, instead of changing her to suit some pedestrian storyline penned by some writer who always dims Monica in the most unimaginative light.
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." ~ Carl Sagan

  11. #341
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    For now, but I can see them rolling that back as well...or at least de-emphasizing it. I don't recall there being many stories where Storm exists as an immortal in the far-flung future. And the X-Men have tons of those stories.
    you also have Voyager who is most likely immortal considering that she is technically part Elder.

  12. #342
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    ['b]Monica is a normal human now. It's amazing how the so called "House of Ideas" always predictably craps on really powerful women and minorities. That's not new or imaginative. That's MAGA.[/b]

    For those that complained that Monica was OP, congratulations. Now let's see how often a powerless Monica gets used in stories and events. About as much as Blue Marvel, I reckon. More to the point, good luck explaining why Caucasian characters, especially the men, don't seem to have a problem with claiming absolute power, while minorities and women are always afraid to do so in Marvel's publications.

    By the way, if Monica was afraid of being long-lived, then she better stay far, far away from Adam. He managed to prolong the life of his first wife and apparently retard the ageing of his children as well without knowing how he did it. Subconsciously extending Monica's life is a sure bet.
    this is spot on. why didnt marvel do this with captain marvel or jean grey? Monica was one of the very few powerful black female characters and this is what marvel thinks was the best way to handle her character???? very disappointed but I cant say I'm surprised.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #343
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    you also have Voyager who is most likely immortal considering that she is technically part Elder.
    Yes, but Voyager isn't African American, or representative of such in appearance. That said, I actually like Voyager. Adding her to a book improves the chances that I might read it.
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." ~ Carl Sagan

  14. #344
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    this is spot on. why didnt marvel do this with captain marvel or jean grey? Monica was one of the very few powerful black female characters and this is what marvel thinks was the best way to handle her character???? very disappointed but I cant say I'm surprised.
    the Jean Grey that just renounced her phoenix powers in the last issue of phoenix resurrection because she just wanted to be a normal mutant ? I'm sorry but she just doesn't fit this narrative, you'll have to find another example.

    Jean has been de-powered so many times I have lost count, with marvel it's not a matter of race but a matter of sex, Men are more frequently than not written as being able to handle higher levels of power.
    Last edited by Daedra; 04-18-2019 at 10:59 AM.
    It's funny because when I saw her behind on the glass at the end of the show, I thought, "That's where she needs to be. In captivity. Behind a glass in a lab somewhere that she can be studied like the psychotic specimen she is."

  15. #345
    Mighty Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Carol isn't Binary unless she gets an external power boost
    And Jean Grey rejected the Phoenix Force when she came back

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