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  1. #346
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I don't think it's ever good to nerf characters to mask a writer's inadequacies. And it still doesn't address why more often than not, White males and their close representations keep their OP powers, while women alarmingly get scaled back more often than not, and while other ethnicities rarely if ever achieve OP status at all. Heck, some characters like Sentry, Thor and Hulk have OP status under multiple brandings. Normal Hulk wipes out most of the MU by himself, but no, let's make him World Breaker Hulk and Immortal Hulk, because, well, he has green cajones instead of a uterus, so it's perfectly ok.

    At the end of the day, they could have left Monica at OP level, but scaled the field to suit her, instead of changing her to suit some pedestrian storyline penned by some writer who always dims Monica in the most unimaginative light.
    I'm not a huge fan of nerfing characters either, but given the choice I'd prefer a nerfed Monica used than a Monica not used at all. Even writers who have written a good Monica like Ewing and Stern on occasion have written her below her ability at times. Characters with superspeed in general get nerfed a lot of the time. They're logistically difficult to write otherwise.

    ANd most of the time Thor and Hulks power upgrades get scaled back too. Hulk at world breaking levels pretty much was just for World War Hulk. Next time we saw Bruce, he was getting owned by Red Hulk left and right. Thors upgrades likewise were usually temporary. If anything he's been majorly depowered in recent years. I'm sure Thor fans are waiting for him to at least get a half descent hammer to get back to classic status quo levels.

    Point being regularly used characters who become over powered usually lose that power upgrade. It's usually something for a specific story.

  2. #347
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of nerfing characters either, but given the choice I'd prefer a nerfed Monica used than a Monica not used at all. Even writers who have written a good Monica like Ewing and Stern on occasion have written her below her ability at times. Characters with superspeed in general get nerfed a lot of the time. They're logistically difficult to write otherwise.

    ANd most of the time Thor and Hulks power upgrades get scaled back too. Hulk at world breaking levels pretty much was just for World War Hulk. Next time we saw Bruce, he was getting owned by Red Hulk left and right. Thors upgrades likewise were usually temporary. If anything he's been majorly depowered in recent years. I'm sure Thor fans are waiting for him to at least get a half descent hammer to get back to classic status quo levels.

    Point being regularly used characters who become over powered usually lose that power upgrade. It's usually something for a specific story.
    All good points, but nevertheless, this change, despite its neutral shell, is wrongheaded. They didn't need to change Monica at all.

  3. #348
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    the Jean Grey that just renounced her phoenix powers in the last issue of phoenix resurrection because she just wanted to be a normal mutant ? I'm sorry but she just doesn't fit this narrative, you'll have to find another example.

    Jean has been de-powered so many times I have lost count, with marvel it's not a matter of race but a matter of sex, Men are more frequently than not written as being able to handle higher levels of power.
    jean grey in red mentioned the Phoenix was holding her back.its been a slow buildup but I think the end goal here is to show how powerful she can be without the Phoenix.
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  4. #349
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    jean grey in red mentioned the Phoenix was holding her back.its been a slow buildup but I think the end goal here is to show how powerful she can be without the Phoenix.
    I'm really curious to see how that works. Marvel is never consistent with these things. Franklin Richards, for example, comes across as a being that is more powerful than the Phoenix, which makes no sense. The PF is supposed to be the sum of all psionic energy, including the energies that Franklin wields. How could it be weaker? How could Jean be more powerful than the Phoenix Force? My guess is that they'll establish that she's powerful relatively speaking, but won't make any real assertions as to where that puts her in the cosmic scheme of things. But enough about Jean. Don't want Monica microwaving me in my sleep.

  5. #350
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    When I ready the issue I was salty at Monica getting nerfed. Does it improve her chances of being used in other stories? I doubt it. MArvel will most likely keep using their A-listers.

    Off-topic: Speaking of Franklin, I always found it weird how his dad is just stretchy, his mom makes invisible fields, but he has godlike powers. I understand Valeria getting Reed's intellect but where did that massive jump come from?

  6. #351
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironmonk View Post
    When I ready the issue I was salty at Monica getting nerfed. Does it improve her chances of being used in other stories? I doubt it. MArvel will most likely keep using their A-listers.

    Off-topic: Speaking of Franklin, I always found it weird how his dad is just stretchy, his mom makes invisible fields, but he has godlike powers. I understand Valeria getting Reed's intellect but where did that massive jump come from?
    As the son of Reed and Sue, Franklin is a mutant. Mutant powers run the full gamut from barely expressed and benign to Omega level and beyond. It's totally random, which is part of the fear of mutants, and also one of the reasons why Xavier formed his school. Most mutant abilities manifest around puberty, but Franklin's abilities manifested while he was still a child. That was the first key indicator that he was going to be a very powerful mutant. The second had to do with the type of mutant ability that Franklin has. He is a universal scale macrocosmic reality warper. Even as a child he is said to have powers that rival even the most powerful Celestial. Obviously, Franklin is only a reflection of what his creator and subsequent writers wanted him to be. Same goes with Valeria and all characters, really.

  7. #352
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    does monica have any upcoming appearances somewhere regular?

  8. #353
    Mighty Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    does monica have any upcoming appearances somewhere regular?
    Not a one.

  9. #354
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    Question... Is Carol Danvers more powerful than Monica Rambeau? Give examples if you can. Thanks.

  10. #355
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    maybe in binary but still a toss up

    in base carol's got energy absorption, but so does monica. It's hard to compare the two. I remember the ultimates she froze the Maker solid, and in Jla/Avengers absorbed Hal's energy constructs.

    But in terms of ceilings, carol's contained the power of a white hole/ white star or whatever so she seems to have a higher limit? Plus there have been times where monica's been taken out by iron man by getting absorbed and shot into other team-mates.

    Monica sees everything in relative speed, basically meaning everything's frozen unless it's moving close to lightspeed. I think that gives a massive edge against most marvel characters including heavy hitters like thor and hulk just in general however. But Carol absorbs lasers and other light speed beam like attacks often so there's a chance that one of the fly through the eye-hole moves, just ends up getting monica absorbed? Idk, there's insufficient information.

    I do think that the speed thing is a major factor. She should be able to outdo most characters with that and without anyone who can keep up, it's usually a win (like the flash or superman vs thor or hulk)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    Not a one.
    whelp
    Last edited by Ichijinijisanji; 05-23-2019 at 09:28 PM.

  11. #356
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Question... Is Carol Danvers more powerful than Monica Rambeau? Give examples if you can. Thanks.
    You always have to be careful with feats, because writers obviously pen stories with a specific outcome in mind. In most of the stories Monica is nerfed or somehow scaled back so that she can't end the battle in a nanosecond. To make things worse, Monica goes from being considered the Avengers' best strategist and tactician to a relative idiot all in the space of a few panels depending on the writer. In some stories she seems to have full knowledge and command of her powers, while in others, she doesn't quite grasp the physics of her abilities at all. And writers certainly handicap her further by making sure that Monica doesn't think, process information, and react at light speed, which is fundamentally ridiculous.

    All that said, who wins between Monica and Carol...or anyone else, for that matter? It all depends on who is writing the battle and how they want it to end. I definitely know a handful of things that Monica could do to Carol quickly to win a fight, especially if Carol isn't already at Binary mode. But I'm not sharing. (Just remember that Monica doesn't have to touch you in order to affect the electrical impulses in the brain and/or nervous system. And that isn't the kind of attack that requires her to unleash any form of electromagnetic energy that Carol can absorb.)
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 05-24-2019 at 03:07 PM.

  12. #357
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  13. #358
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    Spectrum and Blade are among the first characters I'd try to take down if I was Dracula.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  14. #359
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Spectrum and Blade are among the first characters I'd try to take down if I was Dracula.
    If Monica is there, Dracula realistically shouldn't last 3 seconds. I almost think they need a tougher bad guy if Monica is involved... but then again because it's Blade, it almost has to be a vampire story.

  15. #360
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Unexciting ad. Unremarkable look. Underwhelming text.
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