Punisher Season 2

[Cimmerian]

Jigsaw and his relationship with his therapist were hands down the weakest aspects of the show. Pilgrim should’ve been the central antagonist of the season. He was awesome over the last 4-5 episodes.

But if they somehow renew this for a 3rd season, they better go all out with Frank fully transitioned into the Punisher. That’s been my biggest gripe with the series as a whole.

Daredevil Season 2 ended with Frank seemingly embracing becoming the Punisher just for Steve Lightfoot and the writers to have him throw away the skull vest 5 minutes into Punisher Season 1. I also don’t like how they changed his backstory from having his family killed by random gangsters to having it stem from some military conspiracy. That’s a big fundamental change to the character. Puts him on some singular path for revenge instead of him wanting to do away with basically every criminal he comes across.

[Theleviathan]

I liked this season a lot...but man I wish they had been more bold with Jigsaw's scarring. It was laughably insufficient or believable....and I can't come up with a good reason why.

[Midvillian1322]

I liked this season a lot...but man I wish they had been more bold with Jigsaw's scarring. It was laughably insufficient or believable....and I can't come up with a good reason why.

They said they thought it was more interesting to have it be his psyche that's scarred but I think Netflix didnt wanna spend the money. The scar they gave him wouldnt take long and would cost next to nothing. Iono I'm mixed about Jigsaw. Like some stuff they did with him but honestly it didnt have to be Jigsaw it coulda been anyone

[Immortal Weapon]

Jigsaw and his relationship with his therapist were hands down the weakest aspects of the show. Pilgrim should’ve been the central antagonist of the season. He was awesome over the last 4-5 episodes.

But if they somehow renew this for a 3rd season, they better go all out with Frank fully transitioned into the Punisher. That’s been my biggest gripe with the series as a whole.

Daredevil Season 2 ended with Frank seemingly embracing becoming the Punisher just for Steve Lightfoot and the writers to have him throw away the skull vest 5 minutes into Punisher Season 1. I also don’t like how they changed his backstory from having his family killed by random gangsters to having it stem from some military conspiracy. That’s a big fundamental change to the character. Puts him on some singular path for revenge instead of him wanting to do away with basically every criminal he comes across.

His family death in Daredevil season 2 was also a conspiracy. The DA wanted to cover up her botched sting and she tried to kill Frank while he was still in recovery.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I can't remember, did Pilgrim kill anyone who wasn't a bad guy? I know he tried to kill some of the good guys, but never did. That might excuse Castle sparing him.

[Immortal Weapon]

I can't remember, did Pilgrim kill anyone who wasn't a bad guy? I know he tried to kill some of the good guys, but never did. That might excuse Castle sparing him.

He did kill Amy's friends. They were a group of kids who were petty thieves.

[The Cool Thatguy]

He did kill Amy's friends. They were a group of kids who were petty thieves.

Was that him? I thought it was just the mercs

[Michael Watkins]

I didn't like the religious character. he didn't have much of a presence. I didn't buy him as a bad@$$. and I really like that actor (bought The Collector and the Collection because of him). the other elements of the show appealed to me, though.

[Theleviathan]

They said they thought it was more interesting to have it be his psyche that's scarred but I think Netflix didnt wanna spend the money. The scar they gave him wouldnt take long and would cost next to nothing. Iono I'm mixed about Jigsaw. Like some stuff they did with him but honestly it didnt have to be Jigsaw it coulda been anyone

Ah, thank you for the explanation. I guess my question to Netflix is "Why can't it be both?" My wife's explanation was "the actor is too pretty for that".

[Michael Watkins]

They said they thought it was more interesting to have it be his psyche that's scarred but I think Netflix didnt wanna spend the money. The scar they gave him wouldnt take long and would cost next to nothing. Iono I'm mixed about Jigsaw. Like some stuff they did with him but honestly it didnt have to be Jigsaw it coulda been anyone

to me, it was a step up from what the character was in the comics and ray Stevenson movie. there's not much that they could have done to his face that wouldn't also limit his ability to emote, imo (and also make him look exactly like Crossbones).

[Cimmerian]

I didn't like the religious character. he didn't have much of a presence. I didn't buy him as a bad@$$. and I really like that actor (bought The Collector and the Collection because of him). the other elements of the show appealed to me, though.

I’m on the opposite end

Billy is the one I couldn’t buy as a badass. There’s nothing remotely intimidating about Ben Barnes at all. He’s a skinny, lanky pretty boy who was always miscast in the role IMO.

Just between the fight in the bar/restaurant and the hotel party with the hookers made Pilgrim 100x more intimidating than Billy if you ask me.

[Michael Watkins]

Jigsaw and his relationship with his therapist were hands down the weakest aspects of the show. Pilgrim should’ve been the central antagonist of the season. He was awesome over the last 4-5 episodes.

But if they somehow renew this for a 3rd season, they better go all out with Frank fully transitioned into the Punisher. That’s been my biggest gripe with the series as a whole.

Daredevil Season 2 ended with Frank seemingly embracing becoming the Punisher just for Steve Lightfoot and the writers to have him throw away the skull vest 5 minutes into Punisher Season 1. I also don’t like how they changed his backstory from having his family killed by random gangsters to having it stem from some military conspiracy. That’s a big fundamental change to the character. Puts him on some singular path for revenge instead of him wanting to do away with basically every criminal he comes across.

I think the change easily explained his level of skill at taking on large groups of people, conveniently allowed Jigsaw to be on his level, and avoided the trap of him being some angel who had a complete personality flip after losing his family. he said it outright in this season. he was always the punisher. it's what made him such a good soldier. he's out there killing criminals because it's what he was born to do. I think it would have been boring to just see him go after organized crime figures.

[Michael Watkins]

I’m on the opposite end

Billy is the one I couldn’t buy as a badass. There’s nothing remotely intimidating about Ben Barnes at all. He’s a skinny, lanky pretty boy who was always miscast in the role IMO.

Just between the fight in the bar/restaurant and the hotel party with the hookers made Pilgrim 100x more intimidating than Billy if you ask me.

the stunt team did a great job on the hotel scene. but the moment I saw his pot belly I couldn't take the dude seriously. and I rolled my eyes whenever they showed his skinhead tats. it's such a lazy way to establish someone as a "bad@ss." Billy being lanky worked because, where Frank is a plodding tank, the emphasis was speed (like with a knife for instance). made me think of snakes. and I don't think he was supposed to be physically intimidating (he wasn't the type to get in a fist fight). he relied on the opposite in season 1. you don't need to be huge to shoot someone from a distance at any rate.

[Cimmerian]

I think the change easily explained his level of skill at taking on large groups of people, conveniently allowed Jigsaw to be on his level, and avoided the trap of him being some angel who had a complete personality flip after losing his family. he said it outright in this season. he was always the punisher. it's what made him such a good soldier. he's out there killing criminals because it's what he was born to do. I think it would have been boring to just see him go after organized crime figures.

The writers on the show waffle back and forth on Frank way too much if you ask me.

I get that he can’t just be some totally emotionless, Terminator-esque figure and carry a 13 hour season, but they go with this angle trying to “redeem” Frank way too much for my liking.

Like I said, the ending of the 2nd season of Daredevil left off perfectly for Frank to totally transition into the Punisher. With him blowing up his family’s old home and walking away with the trench coat and skull vest while carrying the minigun. Then that’s tossed away within literally 5 minutes of the first season of his own show with him trying to start a new life. The 2nd season starts off essentially the same way. It just pisses me off that we had to go through a full season of Daredevil and roughly 26 hours of his own show just for him to truly embrace what he is at the very end for a grand total of 15 seconds. And now we’re probably not going to get a Season 3 to capitalize on it. And even if we somehow do, Steve Lightfoot is already talking about some other redemption angle. That’s just lame to me. If there’s one character that you don’t try to redeem or give a love interest to, it’s Frank Castle. The guy isn’t a hero, he’s a mass murdering vigilante who does away with criminals with zero remorse and he’s not going to stop until he’s 6 feet under. The show flirts with that from time to time, but they never fully embrace it. They kinda act like they’re too scared to.

It’s still a good show for the most part, but I’m thinking that we’re never going to get a truly comics-faithful version of the character. Ray Stevenson in Warzone was easily the closest, it’s just a shame that movie was a steaming pile of crap and went way too over the top.

[Michael Watkins]

The writers on the show waffle back and forth on Frank way too much if you ask me.

I get that he can’t just be some totally emotionless, Terminator-esque figure and carry a 13 hour season, but they go with this angle trying to “redeem” Frank way too much for my liking.

Like I said, the ending of the 2nd season of Daredevil left off perfectly for Frank to totally transition into the Punisher. With him blowing up his family’s old home and walking away with the trench coat and skull vest while carrying the minigun. Then that’s tossed away within literally 5 minutes of the first season of his own show with him trying to start a new life. The 2nd season starts off essentially the same way. It just pisses me off that we had to go through a full season of Daredevil and roughly 26 hours of his own show just for him to truly embrace what he is at the very end for a grand total of 15 seconds. And now we’re probably not going to get a Season 3 to capitalize on it. And even if we somehow do, Steve Lightfoot is already talking about some other redemption angle. That’s just lame to me. If there’s one character that you don’t try to redeem or give a love interest to, it’s Frank Castle. The guy isn’t a hero, he’s a mass murdering vigilante who does away with criminals with zero remorse and he’s not going to stop until he’s 6 feet under. The show flirts with that from time to time, but they never fully embrace it. They kinda act like they’re too scared to.

It’s still a good show for the most part, but I’m thinking that we’re never going to get a truly comics-faithful version of the character. Ray Stevenson in Warzone was easily the closest, it’s just a shame that movie was a steaming pile of crap and went way too over the top.

sure. i can agree with that. they are playing it a little close. but if Frank kills innocents, that kind of makes him hard to root for. the comic book version is basically a serial killer. that might work for Dexter. but Frank isn't as personable as Dexter. he doesn't have a dual identity. so we'd be watching some emotionless killer for several hours (i always binge watch). when they humanize him, they add stakes to the story. and i really liked Ray Stevenson. but even he started questioning his mission after killing the undercover fbi agent.