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  1. #676
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Today's Cap was good. Felt a bit like a filler, but still good. Wasn't at all what I was expecting though. The solicits advertised it as a Steve and Jess team-up and this... wasn't that.

    Nice narrative on Steve and Sharon, though. I feel it brought a more human spin on what Steve is going through right now on a personal level. His frustration stemming not only from the fact that Sharon is keeping secrets but more on the fact that he's entirely, 100% dependent on the Daughters of Liberty and doesn't completely understand why they are helping him and what their motivation is in it.

    That is actually pretty sad, come to think of it, that the Power Elite's machinations have Steve so utterly screwed up that on some level, he can't even be sure he can trust people he's known and fought beside (and even loved, in Sharon's case) for years. Speaking of loved, where's Diamondback? One would think she'd be in on this, too, given her history with Steve.
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  2. #677
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    That is actually pretty sad, come to think of it, that the Power Elite's machinations have Steve so utterly screwed up that on some level, he can't even be sure he can trust people he's known and fought beside (and even loved, in Sharon's case) for years. Speaking of loved, where's Diamondback? One would think she'd be in on this, too, given her history with Steve.
    I sort of saw Steve's breakdown coming, because he absolutely hates secrets being kept from him and hates feeling like he's being manipulated (re: remember when he found out about the Illuminati?), but that it was put here, several issues after Steve escaped from prison felt weird. I'm wondering why Steve and Sharon didn't have the discussion on what the Daughters of Liberty were and how long she'd been running them behind his back a little earlier. But yes, very sad. I mean, I understand why Steve is upset, he's pretty helpless at this point, he's a wanted fugitive, he has no mantle, a terrible and unfair reputation, and seemingly, other than Sharon and Bucky, not a lot of people in his corner out of his immediate circle of closest friends (no Invaders have called, no Avengers, it's weird, I mean I get that cameos need to be set up through the Marvel office when writing these things but you're telling me that we're to assume that Thor, or Clint -- I'll assume Tony is still in a coma during this -- but T'Challa haven't tried to contact him to voice their support?). And I don't think it's so much that he doubts their intentions as he is frustrated he's absolutely dependent on them and they are keeping secrets.

    I would love so much for Rachel to show up! That would be so awesome. But more than that I'm wondering where in the world Sam is. It's bonkers he hasn't shown up at all. I get that the Falcon solo didn't do well (neither did Bucky's and they're not vaulting him up, love Bucky, just pointing out the double standard), but HE'S STEVE'S BEST FRIEND. Marvel taking him completely off the board like this is now kind of reaching jarring levels.

    But I don't mean to come down on the issue. It was good. Not the best of the series, sort of felt like a filler, but still very good. I love this run. That said, the best characterization of Steve presented today was in Absolute Carnage: Avengers. That issue had A+ Steve Rogers content, even more than the actual Cap book.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 10-16-2019 at 04:17 PM.

  3. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Today's Cap was good. Felt a bit like a filler, but still good. Wasn't at all what I was expecting though. The solicits advertised it as a Steve and Jess team-up and this... wasn't that.
    I agree, this was a good issue. As much as I don't want this Steve on the run storyline to drag out endlessly, I have to say every issue has been damn fine. Coates is really doing a bang-up job on this series. Loved that last page reveal!

  4. #679
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    Steve needs to put together his own team of operatives when this is over. Restart the Hotline with a command center. Get Fabian Stankiewicz, Ram Ridley and Drake Harrison (Jack Flag's brother) to run operate from the command center and a group of operatives like Diamondback, Free Spirit, Trickshot, etc...people who are not Avengers or heavily affiliated with other groups. They deal with things that come into the Hotline in Cap's place.

  5. #680
    Spectacular Member Blu_Spyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    That is actually pretty sad, come to think of it, that the Power Elite's machinations have Steve so utterly screwed up that on some level, he can't even be sure he can trust people he's known and fought beside (and even loved, in Sharon's case) for years. Speaking of loved, where's Diamondback? One would think she'd be in on this, too, given her history with Steve.
    You might want to take that one up with Tom Brevoort, (rumour is: he allegedly does..not..like..the character..at..all {which would kind of explain Rachel being comatose for that Ed Brubaker arc, and the treatment she received during Nick Spencer's arc (it was a step sideways for her, a step down would have been Nick Spencer killing her the way he killed Constrictor)}, personally it's kind of for the best that she does not appear in Captain America, if the editor of said book has an irrational dislike of the character (personally I'd love for Rachel to be on the roster of The Thunderbolts..oh well one can dream)
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  6. #681
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I sort of saw Steve's breakdown coming, because he absolutely hates secrets being kept from him and hates feeling like he's being manipulated (re: remember when he found out about the Illuminati?), but that it was put here, several issues after Steve escaped from prison felt weird. I'm wondering why Steve and Sharon didn't have the discussion on what the Daughters of Liberty were and how long she'd been running them behind his back a little earlier. But yes, very sad. I mean, I understand why Steve is upset, he's pretty helpless at this point, he's a wanted fugitive, he has no mantle, a terrible and unfair reputation, and seemingly, other than Sharon and Bucky, not a lot of people in his corner out of his immediate circle of closest friends (no Invaders have called, no Avengers, it's weird, I mean I get that cameos need to be set up through the Marvel office when writing these things but you're telling me that we're to assume that Thor, or Clint -- I'll assume Tony is still in a coma during this -- but T'Challa haven't tried to contact him to voice their support?).
    Wait, you think Cap is still set before Iron Man #600? That's not possible, mainly because of Toni Ho.

    Life of Captain Marvel in late 2018 established a nine month timeskip for Carol which must also have affected Avengers, but Carol was never absent from that book. I'd say this Captain America run might be set then, which would explain why Avengers hasn't addressed Steve's fugitive status.
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  7. #682
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Today's Cap was good. Felt a bit like a filler, but still good. Wasn't at all what I was expecting though. The solicits advertised it as a Steve and Jess team-up and this... wasn't that.

    I like this issue, but I was a bit disappointed it wasn't as advertised (but at least Jess was there. Bobbi wasn't even in last month). I feel like if any one sort of knows what it's like to have someone pose as you and ruin your reputation
    and then not have anyone trust you it's Jess (see Secret Invasion fall out). I was hoping for more. Oh well.
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  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blu_Spyder View Post
    You might want to take that one up with Tom Brevoort, (rumour is: he allegedly does..not..like..the character..at..all {which would kind of explain Rachel being comatose for that Ed Brubaker arc, and the treatment she received during Nick Spencer's arc (it was a step sideways for her, a step down would have been Nick Spencer killing her the way he killed Constrictor)}, personally it's kind of for the best that she does not appear in Captain America, if the editor of said book has an irrational dislike of the character (personally I'd love for Rachel to be on the roster of The Thunderbolts..oh well one can dream)
    So another Dan Didio case at Marvel, right ? You know what I mean.

  9. #684
    Spectacular Member Blu_Spyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    So another Dan Didio case at Marvel, right ? You know what I mean.
    Well yes & no, unlike Dan Didio, Tom B. (as far as I know) does not have loyalists, and his "power" only goes so far, (since Gail Simone's Domino was under a different editor, she was able to utilize Diamondback {like put her on covers}). That is all I'm saying on this matter, (I do not want CBR's ban hammer thank you)
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  10. #685
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Steve needs to put together his own team of operatives when this is over. Restart the Hotline with a command center. Get Fabian Stankiewicz, Ram Ridley and Drake Harrison (Jack Flag's brother) to run operate from the command center and a group of operatives like Diamondback, Free Spirit, Trickshot, etc...people who are not Avengers or heavily affiliated with other groups. They deal with things that come into the Hotline in Cap's place.
    I would subscribe to a run exactly like this, so fast. Not even a question. Neat idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blu_Spyder View Post
    You might want to take that one up with Tom Brevoort, (rumour is: he allegedly does..not..like..the character..at..all {which would kind of explain Rachel being comatose for that Ed Brubaker arc, and the treatment she received during Nick Spencer's arc (it was a step sideways for her, a step down would have been Nick Spencer killing her the way he killed Constrictor)}, personally it's kind of for the best that she does not appear in Captain America, if the editor of said book has an irrational dislike of the character (personally I'd love for Rachel to be on the roster of The Thunderbolts..oh well one can dream)
    This is disappointing to hear. For me, while I've liked all of Steve's girlfriends and was thrilled to see Bernie pop up in this new run, Rachel was my favorite. I mean, it's a narrow margin, but I do have a tremendous soft-spot for her. It's... disheartening that an editor gets to decide who gets to be in a book and who doesn't based on their personal preference rather than what the readers would want. From what I've seen on this board, and granted, yes, we're a small sample size, but a lot of readers here seem to like Rachel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Wait, you think Cap is still set before Iron Man #600? That's not possible, mainly because of Toni Ho.

    Life of Captain Marvel in late 2018 established a nine month timeskip for Carol which must also have affected Avengers, but Carol was never absent from that book. I'd say this Captain America run might be set then, which would explain why Avengers hasn't addressed Steve's fugitive status.
    I did think that, yes. My original thought was that Coates' Cap takes place prior to the reforming of the Avengers and the Celestial "Final Host". Can you explain why Toni Ho invalidates that? I'm not doubting you! I'm sure you're correct, I just think I missed the plot points you're referring to.

    It sort of sucks we haven't seen the reaction of anyone else, outside of Sharon and Bucky, to what is happening to Steve. And yes, I know, separate books. Saladin Ahmed recently explained how having a character guest staring in a run works at Marvel. Apparently there is an email address set up at Marvel specifically where a writer can write in to ask if a character is available for a 'play date' he called it, and whether their own story will allow for it, and editorial responds if that character is available to use or not. The thing is however, for each of the other times Steve has given up the mantle, we've had a variety of reactions from his circle, including characters from other books who tried to help him or weigh in.

    Englehart/Nomad:



    Gruenwald/Captain America No More:



    So the fact that we've got not a peep about Steve's fugitive status anywhere is weird. And sad and isolating, from a character perspective, because it makes it look like the only friends Steve has in the world are Sharon, Bucky and the Daughters of Liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    I like this issue, but I was a bit disappointed it wasn't as advertised (but at least Jess was there. Bobbi wasn't even in last month). I feel like if any one sort of knows what it's like to have someone pose as you and ruin your reputation
    and then not have anyone trust you it's Jess (see Secret Invasion fall out). I was hoping for more. Oh well.
    Yeah, I was a little bit disappointed, too. I was looking forward to a Steve and Jess story. And you're right, Jess would be the perfect person for Steve to talk to about everything going on with him. She would be a great empathetic ear.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 10-17-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  11. #686
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Brevoort not liking Diamondback would explain a few things, I guess...

  12. #687
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    At least we know that Coates has a healthy respect for Mark Gruenwald, even if Brevoort doesn't, re: Scourge of the Underworld.

    And on that note... poor Steve. He just can't get a break! Let's do a tally: The Lukins/Red Skull, the Chadwicks, Kingpin, Selene, AIM, the Watchdogs, Hydra!Cap(?) and now, Scourge of the Underworld, all while being chased as a fugitive by Nick Fury Jr. Steve deserved that mini-breakdown he just had, lol.

  13. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    At least we know that Coates has a healthy respect for Mark Gruenwald, even if Brevoort doesn't, re: Scourge of the Underworld.
    Brevoort has a huge amount of respect for Gruenwald. To say otherwise would be plainly wrong.

    Just because Brevoort might not love every character Gruenwald featured in his Cap run doesn't mean there isn't deep respect.

    https://www.comicmix.com/2016/07/04/...nwald-tribute/

    https://luminarypodcasts.com/listen/...1-f68a60fb3531

  14. #689
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Brevoort has a huge amount of respect for Gruenwald. To say otherwise would be plainly wrong.

    Just because Brevoort might not love every character Gruenwald featured in his Cap run doesn't mean there isn't deep respect.

    https://www.comicmix.com/2016/07/04/...nwald-tribute/

    https://luminarypodcasts.com/listen/...1-f68a60fb3531
    Thanks for the links. Good to know and also relieving to hear. With how both Jack Monroe and Dennis Dunphy were killed during Brubaker's run (by Winter Soldier and Sharon respectively, which seemed a bit on the nose, re: old friends vs. older-friends-recently-brought-back-to-life), and Rachel has been treated since Gruenwald, I assumed there was some animosity there towards Gruenwald in all of that, or in the very least, apathy. Glad to hear that wasn't the case.

  15. #690
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Incredible character study of four characters on one page...



    From Absolute Carnage: Avengers by Zac Thompson (who had this to say when I posted the page on Twitter)...

    Zac.JPG
    Last edited by capandkirby; 10-17-2019 at 01:08 PM.

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