Steve Rogers: Captain America Appreciation 2019

[Snoop Dogg]

Gruenwald had them separated for a plotline and Waid didn't reunite them, instead choosing to bring Sharon back.

[Blu_Spyder]

Agreed. To me, it has a similar kind of charm to the Spider-Man/Black Cat pairing, and why Black Cat and Diamondback aren't friends . . . or why Diamondback isn't in on this Daughters of Liberty alliance . . . is beyond me.

Well vis -a-vis Diamondback and Blackcat (or Songbird since both characters started out their respective Roxxon based team's "weak links" (meaning they had no powers or in Melissa Goldd's case augmented strength, and DB having her relationship with Cap while SB had her fling with Baron Zemo so both Melissa & Rachel would have a LOT to talk about) being friends, female criminal characters even former ones would not be trusting of one another and have catty (no pun intended) interactions with each other. If Diamondback and Robbie Baldwin (when he was Penance) had an"off panel" conversation about Diamondback being wrong about the Thunderbolts (in one issue when the Avengers Resistance met Penance, he was described as " one of those criminals pretending to be heroes" that info came from Rachel) I'd imagine Diamondback saying "Oh you think all reformed female criminals are in some kind of club where we complain about stuff & eat ben&jerry's, well we don't"). That would be the writers call I guess

[ETMike1988]

Even Old Man Logan realised that Beast was Mystique in the Astonising X-Men comics.

[Snoop Dogg]

Mystiques power upgrades made her unsmellable and it's better for stories if she can't be detected, but X-Office editorial in the era of Soule Astonishing was asleep at the wheel for most things.

[Blu_Spyder]

The scent/pheromone thing aside there are just some things Wolverine should be able to spot about Mystique, (tics, mannerisms, habits, etc) off the bat (she is after all Wolverine's ex). There traits that characters can pick out about their better halves & exes, like the time when Cap was replaced by Super Adaptoid for (I think) one issue during J M Demattis' run (I'm old I know) & Bernie Rosenthal pretty much called out SA. If there was a storyline where William Burnside (Grand Director) appeared if Diamondback was present, she would be able to tell automatically that he is not Steve Rogers despite William Burnside having enough plastic surgery to look like Steve Rogers. Yeah that's just sloppiness on editorial's part (standards have slipped just a little bit)

[Blu_Spyder]

Sorry for the separate post but another post, another instance of a duplicate Steve Rogers being used was Thunderbolts (vol 1) 50 when Nomad was Scourge & used an image inducer to look like Steve Rogers, and Moonstone spotted him out right away (Moonstone:Barring long term hypnosis, there is no way that this is the real Cap) despite Nomad knowing Steve Rogers, and William Burnside's fighting style. So if that was Mystique as Steve Rogers, Logan would be able to tell that That Cap was the real deal (Steve Rogers strikes me as stinking of Old Spice, or English leather after shave), which made Hydra Cap dangerous & tricky as hell to ferret out, because for all intents Hydra Cap was the real Cap. (choke that up to the Kobik Macguffin).

[capandkirby]

Sharon was his last one. I think it cooled off due to Hydra Cap.

Sharon and Steve are still together in Coates current run. Though she wasn't in Waid's short mini a year ago, so maybe you're thinking of that?

[capandkirby]

Did they end up smashing? Jeez. I’m so messy.

Steve is a bit too old school, I remember Sharon was pregnant during CW and lost the baby. I’m still waiting for Steve to marry and have kids. Out of all superheroes I’d expect him to be the one with a cute family. The American Dream.

LOL. Oh yes. In fact... there was this really awkward storyline in Captain America vol. 4 where Steve ended up sleeping with a LMD of Rachel thinking it was the real one. So, that was fun.

It was sort of weird. Cap vol. 4 ended with a hint of Steve and Rachel rekindling their romance...

SteveandRachel.jpg

I mean, these are literally the last panels in volume 4.

But Brubaker went with Sharon instead. So I think it all came down to writer's preference. Brubaker preferred Sharon, so we got Sharon. And he sort of put the nail in the coffin of fans hoping for a Steve/Diamondback reunion by having Rachel try to rekindle things with Steve right in front of Sharon, knowing full well that Steve and Sharon were together at the time (in volume 6). So Brubaker wasn't even subtle in his preferences, lol.

As for marriage and Steve... Steve's a bit gun-shy. Most of the ladies have been the ones to propose to him (Bernie and Sharon have both proposed to Steve at separate times) not the other way around. He actually told Bernie no at first, because he was convinced that marrying him would put a huge target on her back. They argued about it. With Sharon he didn't have time to give her an answer before being sprinted off to Dimension Z.

[capandkirby]

Been looking for this all day, and finally remembered the comic it was in. Anyway, it was a short piece in the Captain America: The Legend comic, written by Mark Waid, and featuring Steve walking side-by-side with Jack Kirby...

CapandKirby2.jpg

"Guys like us remember what to fight for... and that's the part that never changes. We still need ya, Cap, we always will."

[BitParallel]

LOL. Oh yes. In fact... there was this really awkward storyline in Captain America vol. 4 where Steve ended up sleeping with a LMD of Rachel thinking it was the real one. So, that was fun.

It was sort of weird. Cap vol. 4 ended with a hint of Steve and Rachel rekindling their romance...

SteveandRachel.jpg

I mean, these are literally the last panels in volume 4.

But Brubaker went with Sharon instead. So I think it all came down to writer's preference. Brubaker preferred Sharon, so we got Sharon. And he sort of put the nail in the coffin of fans hoping for a Steve/Diamondback reunion by having Rachel try to rekindle things with Steve right in front of Sharon, knowing full well that Steve and Sharon were together at the time (in volume 6). So Brubaker wasn't even subtle in his preferences, lol.

As for marriage and Steve... Steve's a bit gun-shy. Most of the ladies have been the ones to propose to him (Bernie and Sharon have both proposed to Steve at separate times) not the other way around. He actually told Bernie no at first, because he was convinced that marrying him would put a huge target on her back. They argued about it. With Sharon he didn't have time to give her an answer before being sprinted off to Dimension Z.

Didn’t Steve once propose to Sharon? But she turned him down?

[capandkirby]

Didn’t Steve once propose to Sharon? But she turned him down?

True, in the 60's, that did happen. I always forget about that one because of it being a product of its time. Nowadays a proposal to someone you barely knew and only went on a few dates with would be the height of weird. Back then, still weird, but less so. Modern day Cap, though, from Bernie on up, has been way more hesitant to allow anyone to get too close. In fact, he didn't even tell Bernie, Connie, or Monica about his duel identity, at first. The only two love interests who knew upfront were Sharon and Rachel.

Actually, in thinking about it, that was probably part of why those two relationships lasted as long as they did. Neither Sharon nor Rachel had any delusions that his being Captain America meant that he would be late for dates, go days without calling and they'd have to worry about his safety constantly. Something he has to do with them, as well, since both Sharon and Rachel work in the field. Ultimately, this is what broke he and Bernie up. She wanted to go away to law school and he was never around, even getting involved in fighting crime on what was to be their last night together, so she figured that maintaining a long distance relationship with him would be impossible. Shame, though. Bernie was great. Steve's had some really cool girlfriends.

[BitParallel]

True, in the 60's, that did happen. I always forget about that one because of it being a product of its time. Nowadays a proposal to someone you barely knew and only went on a few dates with would be the height of weird. Back then, still weird, but less so. Modern day Cap, though, from Bernie on up, has been way more hesitant to allow anyone to get too close. In fact, he didn't even tell Bernie, Connie, or Monica about his duel identity, at first. The only two love interests who knew upfront were Sharon and Rachel.

Actually, in thinking about it, that was probably part of why those two relationships lasted as long as they did. Neither Sharon nor Rachel had any delusions that his being Captain America meant that he would be late for dates, go days without calling and they'd have to worry about his safety constantly. Something he has to do with them, as well, since both Sharon and Rachel work in the field. Ultimately, this is what broke he and Bernie up. She wanted to go away to law school and he was never around, even getting involved in fighting crime on what was to be their last night together, so she figured that maintaining a long distance relationship with him would be impossible. Shame, though. Bernie was great. Steve's had some really cool girlfriends.

Bernie was indeed great. I think I like her more than Sharon, it’s a shame she’s not around. Did she appear recently?

As for Rachel, I think imma read Gruenwalds run to see more of their relationship.

[capandkirby]

Bernie was indeed great. I think I like her more than Sharon, it’s a shame she’s not around. Did she appear recently?

As for Rachel, I think imma read Gruenwalds run to see more of their relationship.

Yes! Bernie was just in Coates run. I was screaming.

Bernie.jpg

Gotta hand it to Steve, he keeps in touch with his exes and has a good relationship with them. Rachel was in Gail Simone's Domino run and while Steve never showed up in person, Rachel did call him for transportation once and he arranged for the ladies to be picked up in an Avengers quinjet.

[BitParallel]

Yes! Bernie was just in Coates run. I was screaming.

Bernie.jpg

Gotta hand it to Steve, he keeps in touch with his exes and has a good relationship with them. Rachel was in Gail Simone's Domino run and while Steve never showed up in person, Rachel did call him for transportation once and he arranged for the ladies to be picked up in an Avengers quinjet.

Oh Em Gee! Is she his lawyer? Since he is a fugitive?

Yea man, Steve got it good with his exes and women. Makes me question why he isn’t married? Real Shame.
Is there any sexual tension between him and Bernie? And where is Sharon in all this?

[capandkirby]

Oh Em Gee! Is she his lawyer? Since he is a fugitive?

Yea man, Steve got it good with his exes and women. Makes me question why he isn’t married? Real Shame.
Is there any sexual tension between him and Bernie? And where is Sharon in all this?

Yes, Bernie is his lawyer. It's awesome. And since you mention it, yeah, in the panel before this one Sharon was snapping at Bernie, which is why Bernie (and Steve) are giving her a look in the panels I posted above. It could probably be interpreted as something other than jealousy though, since they are in a tough situation... or it can easily interpreted as jealousy on Sharon's part.

Bernie2.JPG

And not to pull a Catwoman here, but... I don't think superheroes are allowed to be happy. Like they need their eternal angst and just general... unrest, with life, to fuel them. It's hard to say how readers would react to a happily settled down Steve Rogers with a house, a white picket fence, and 2.5 kids. A large part of Steve is that conflict between his role as Cap and his personal life, recent years in comics notwithstanding. In a way this is why the MCU films have been a little disappointing to me, as a long-time Cap fan. I mean, they've done a great job with Cap don't get me wrong. First Avenger was more than I'd ever thought I'd see, I may or may not have got a bit misty eyed my first time watching it. But MCU Steve never had that conflict between Steve Rogers and the identity of Captain America, of Steve having an existential crises fearing he was losing Steve entirely to Cap the way the comics have, hell, they haven't really delved too deeply into Steve being a man out of time, and that has been... disappointing. *shrug* I can easily be alone on this, though. Most Cap fans seem very satisfied with the MCU's portrayal. In the comics I just think the thought of Steve being completely settled in his own skin and blissfully happy might not be as interesting to read, that there needs to be some inner turmoil.

One of the reasons Roger Stern, whom I consider one of the greats, was blacklisted from Marvel (other than the fight with Gruenwald, which, even as a Cap fan who loves Gruenwald, I side-eye Gruenwald for) was he suggested that Peter Parker and MJ not get married. And I'll probably be hated for this but... I think he had a point, maybe not about those two specifically, but in the larger sense that superheroes need their eternal angst to fuel them.