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  1. #796
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Agreed. It's still the best. Under Siege had many highlights, but Cap's moments were the most memorable.
    One of my favorites is when Zemo kept trying to break Cap’s spirit when he was tied up, and couldn’t do it. Which led to the tearing of the picture of Cap’s mother.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  2. #797
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg1982 View Post
    One of my favorites is when Zemo kept trying to break Cap’s spirit when he was tied up, and couldn’t do it. Which led to the tearing of the picture of Cap’s mother.
    Mine too. Also, Cap had a great line after Mr. Hyde crushed his original shield.

    Fortunately, all of Cap's destroyed mementos were restored by an unexpected source (at least, according to this article):
    https://www.cbr.com/baron-zemo-thund...s-foot-locker/

  3. #798
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    Since having flaws is a staple of Marvel characters what would you say Steve's are? One of them off the top of my head is being a man living out of his time.

  4. #799
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    That's his main one, the fact he's so old fashioned. He calls younger males "son" for example, something modern people wouldn't do. I'd say his other main fault is that he's a workaholic. Seriously, he doesn't do downtime much, not since he gave up his secret identity anyway.
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  5. #800
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Since having flaws is a staple of Marvel characters what would you say Steve's are? One of them off the top of my head is being a man living out of his time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    That's his main one, the fact he's so old fashioned. He calls younger males "son" for example, something modern people wouldn't do. I'd say his other main fault is that he's a workaholic. Seriously, he doesn't do downtime much, not since he gave up his secret identity anyway.
    I’d have to say another flaw Steve tends to display is his stubbornness. The majority of times it is actually a strength, such as when displayed as determination when facing hopeless odds, but there are a few times when it goes against him.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  6. #801
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Since having flaws is a staple of Marvel characters what would you say Steve's are? One of them off the top of my head is being a man living out of his time.
    Not much of a life outside of being Cap.

  7. #802
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg1982 View Post
    I’d have to say another flaw Steve tends to display is his stubbornness. The majority of times it is actually a strength, such as when displayed as determination when facing hopeless odds, but there are a few times when it goes against him.
    Like the original Civil War, if you consider him to have been (at least partly) in the wrong. I won't even get into Avengers Vs. X-Men, that's a can of worms best left unopened.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #803
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Like the original Civil War, if you consider him to have been (at least partly) in the wrong. I won't even get into Avengers Vs. X-Men, that's a can of worms best left unopened.
    I agree. Even though I sided with Steve’s side in the first Civil War, but towards the end he let it go too far with Tony. However I think AvX was just crap writing for all major characters involved, especially Steve.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  9. #804
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Wolverine was right!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorrek VIII
    What if the Kree and Skrull quarantined in the same rooms together? Aha ha, just kidding... unless...?

  10. #805
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg1982 View Post
    I agree. Even though I sided with Steve’s side in the first Civil War, but towards the end he let it go too far with Tony. However I think AvX was just crap writing for all major characters involved, especially Steve.
    I would agree with that as well, especially the last point.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #806
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    So after a hiatus. I’m starting to get into comics again. I purchased Coates’ run and am now current on it. I’ve gotta say, I think it’s not that bad, at least so far. It isn’t anything ground breaking but after certain events (Spencer) maybe steady is what’s called for. Either way I’m currently enjoying the run.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  12. #807
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I would agree with that as well, especially the last point.
    The amount of BS writing involved with Captain America and Cyclops was staggering, I could forgive it to an extent because I understood they had to get them to fight somehow but after when the fight was well and truly on, the BS writing continued. I remember when Phoenix-Namor was flooding Wakanda and Cap said to Black Panther “Don’t you see? This means I was right.” That was, to me, the peak of BS writing.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  13. #808
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tg1982 View Post
    The amount of BS writing involved with Captain America and Cyclops was staggering, I could forgive it to an extent because I understood they had to get them to fight somehow but after when the fight was well and truly on, the BS writing continued. I remember when Phoenix-Namor was flooding Wakanda and Cap said to Black Panther “Don’t you see? This means I was right.” That was, to me, the peak of BS writing.
    Yes. AvX was one of the worst written events in the past decade, and considering that Civil War 2 exists, that is saying something. On a more personal note, it's one of the reasons I can barely stomach the X-Men franchise anymore and the X-Men are a forbidden name in my household (though fortunately my 12-year-old is more interested in the Spider-Man franchise than the X-Men anyway). It's not the event itself, I can easily strike bad writing from my memory. One of the great joys of being a comic fan with decades of material to sustain us is that a badly written event or run is but a blip on the radar, the memory of which is easily repressed once it passes. It's the X-Men fanbases behavior towards Steve following that event that ruined the X-Men for me because they. wont. let. it. go. And use it as an excuse to character bash Steve. I've ended up with a Pavlovian response of "ugh" every time I see an X-Men panel as a result, just by that association with bad fan behavior.

    Anyway, I wish AvX had never happened. So cheers to that like mindset!

    I also agree that Steve's stubborn streak is both a great strength and a great flaw. That stubborn resolve is what carries him through near impossible odds and also allows him to persevere (if you think about it, half of the things that have happened to Steve would have totally broken him if he wasn't so stubborn. Starting with a sickly, poverty stricken childhood as a hated Irish immigrant to a single mother who worked three jobs just to feed him during the Great Depression, an event that in real-life DID break people... to this day my 98-year-old grandmother hoards food, for example. Plus characters like Bucky Barnes and Namor owe a lot to Steve's stubbornness because without it Bucky might still be the Winter Soldier - Steve even had Sharon telling him that he was crazy to try and save Bucky for all that she ended up helping him - and Namor, in this latest Invaders run, would be at total war with the Avengers, something Steve's stubbornness to save Namor staved off) but, on the flip side, it also gives us things like the ending to Time Runs Out *sigh*, which, we can all agree wasn't Steve's best moment ever.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 12-04-2019 at 11:49 AM.

  14. #809
    Mighty Member tg1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Yes. AvX was one of the worst written events in the past decade, and considering that Civil War 2 exists, that is saying something. On a more personal note, it's one of the reasons I can barely stomach the X-Men franchise anymore and the X-Men are a forbidden name in my household (though fortunately my 12-year-old is more interested in the Spider-Man franchise than the X-Men anyway). It's not the event itself, I can easily strike bad writing from my memory. One of the great joys of being a comic fan with decades of material to sustain us is that a badly written event or run is but a blip on the radar, the memory of which is easily repressed once it passes. It's the X-Men fanbases behavior towards Steve following that event that ruined the X-Men for me because they. wont. let. it. go. And use it as an excuse to character bash Steve. I've ended up with a Pavlovian response of "ugh" every time I see an X-Men panel as a result, just by that association with bad fan behavior.

    Anyway, I wish AvX had never happened. So cheers to that like mindset!
    I remember the forum pages on here at that time, it was pretty crazy, the line in the sand was definitely drawn. The one good thing to come out of it, IMO, was Uncanny Avengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I also agree that Steve's stubborn streak is both a great strength and a great flaw. That stubborn resolve is what carries him through near impossible odds and also allows him to persevere (if you think about it, half of the things that have happened to Steve would have totally broken him if he wasn't so stubborn. Starting with a sickly, poverty stricken childhood as a hated Irish immigrant to a single mother who worked three jobs just to feed him during the Great Depression, an event that in real-life DID break people... to this day my 98-year-old grandmother hoards food, for example. Plus characters like Bucky Barnes and Namor owe a lot to Steve's stubbornness because without it Bucky might still be the Winter Soldier - Steve even had Sharon telling him that he was crazy to try and save Bucky for all that she ended up helping him - and Namor, in this latest Invaders run, would be at total war with the Avengers, something Steve's stubbornness to save Namor staved off) but, on the flip side, it also gives us things like the ending to Time Runs Out *sigh*, which, we can all agree wasn't Steve's best moment ever.
    Totally agree. One of my personal favorites was already mentioned in Avengers: Under Siege where Zemo tried to break Cap and couldn’t, even after destroying Caps possessions especially the picture of his mother.
    I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.
    - George Washington

  15. #810
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    ...as for Civil War. Never faulted Steve his stubbornness there. He saw signs early on as to how that unconstitutional law was going to be enforced, and those signs weren't good. First Hill has SHIELD try and gun him down after denying her request that he arrest people for a law that hadn't even passed yet (Hill states specifically during that scene that the SHRA is two weeks away from passing). And then, when he went into hiding, again not yet out-right rebelling (New Avengers anyone?), she still didn't let up and chased him relentlessly.



    The pro-registration side knocks on Jess Jones and Luke Cages' house in the middle of the night to try and force them to sign via threat...



    and they outright torture Jess Drew...



    Frankly, the pro-registration side created the anti-registration side by being giant, human-rights-violating douches about the whole thing. I would have rebelled, too, frankly, if I saw people - friends - being treated this way. And again, I'd like to point out that when all of the above went down, the SHRA had not yet passed congress.

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