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  1. #751
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    What would you guys say are the best issues from the Captain America run of 1968-1996 (#100-454)?

    My choices:

    10. Captain America #254 (February, 1981) - "Blood on the Moors"

    9. Captain America #445 (November, 1995) - "Old Soldiers Never Die"

    8. Captain America #332 (August, 1987) - "The Choice"

    7. Captain America #367 (February, 1990) - "Magnetic Repulsion"

    6. Captain America #175 (July, 1974) - "...Before the Dawn!"

    5. Captain America #350 (February, 1989) - "Seeing Red"

    4. Captain America #113 (May, 1969) - "The Strange Death of Captain America"

    3. Captain America #156 (December, 1972) - "Two Into One Wont Go"

    2. Captain America #345 (September, 1988) - "Surrender"

    1. Captain America #448 (February, 1996) - "Operation Rebirth: Conclusion"
    Great list, Electricmastro.

    Here's my list (chronologically listed, of course):

    1. "No Longer Alone!" - Captain America #110 (February, 1969)

    2. "Tomorrow You Live, Tonight I Die!!" - Captain America #111 (March, 1969)

    3. "The Strange Death of Captain America" - Captain America #113 (May, 1969)

    4. "Captain America's Love Story" - Captain America #198 (June, 1976)

    5. "Seeing Red" - Captain America #350 (February, 1989)

    6. "After the Storm" - Captain America #401 (June, 1992)

    7. "Old Soldiers Never Die" - Captain America #445 (November, 1995)

    8. "The Devil You Know" - Captain America #446 (December, 1995)

    9. "Triumph of the Will" - Captain America #447 (January, 1996)

    10. "Operation Rebirth: Conclusion" - Captain America #448 (February, 1996)

  2. #752
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Captain America #16 preview is out. Walker is back. And he's still a jerkface who needs to butt his butt out. Jeeze louise, Steve's antagonist count in the run is what, up in the double digits already?! And that's counting the groups like AIM and the Watchdogs as one each. And where the @#$% are Steve's friends (other than the DoL and Bucky) while he's been on the run and framed for Ross murder?!




  3. #753
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Captain America #16 preview is out. Walker is back. And he's still a jerkface who needs to butt his butt out. Jeeze louise, Steve's antagonist count in the run is what, up in the double digits already?! And that's counting the groups like AIM and the Watchdogs as one each. And where the @#$% are Steve's friends (other than the DoL and Bucky) while he's been on the run and framed for Ross murder?!
    continued...


  4. #754
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Background on Scourge of the Underworld for those who didn't read Gruenwald. Vigilante serial killers who are not above committing mass murder. Original group (there are a number of them) was formed by Red Skull. This is from Captain America #319...


  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Captain America #16 preview is out. Walker is back.
    Walker's back? Nice! A buddy and I were just wondering when he'd show up again.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Walker's back? Nice! A buddy and I were just wondering when he'd show up again.
    Let's hope he is well written and not reverted to early Walker.

  7. #757
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Walker's back? Nice! A buddy and I were just wondering when he'd show up again.
    I'm a little bit salty that he attacked Misty to get to Steve (not that I'm not salty he's going after Steve, too, but if he thinks Steve murdered Ross, okay... he doesn't have that excuse for Misty). To me that kinda indicates that he is unstable again.

  8. #758
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I'm a little bit salty that he attacked Misty to get to Steve (not that I'm not salty he's going after Steve, too, but if he thinks Steve murdered Ross, okay... he doesn't have that excuse for Misty). To me that kinda indicates that he is unstable again.
    I can imagine Walker thinks the Daughters of Liberty are as corrupted as Steve for backing him, so he attacks Misty?

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I'm a little bit salty that he attacked Misty to get to Steve (not that I'm not salty he's going after Steve, too, but if he thinks Steve murdered Ross, okay... he doesn't have that excuse for Misty). To me that kinda indicates that he is unstable again.
    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I can imagine Walker thinks the Daughters of Liberty are as corrupted as Steve for backing him, so he attacks Misty?
    If Walker is working for the government then anyone helping Steve is fair game for aiding and abetting a fugitive.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I'm a little bit salty that he attacked Misty to get to Steve (not that I'm not salty he's going after Steve, too, but if he thinks Steve murdered Ross, okay... he doesn't have that excuse for Misty). To me that kinda indicates that he is unstable again.
    Well, Walker's a bit of an a**hole, even on his best days.

  11. #761
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Wow, today's Cap issue, it's a lot to unpack. But before I do, really loved the art. It was great. Hope the artist returns.

    Anyway, moving on... so the Scourge knew the cops were plants by the Power Elite, while Steve and the Daughters of Liberty did not. That's interesting. I mean I always felt that Gruenwald invented Scourge because he was a pacifist who did not believe in capital punishment and created a metaphor for that in Scourge (I mean, he was the Cap writer who once claimed that Cap had never killed anyone despite Steve being a soldier who fought in WW2 and then there was the Galactic Storm event). Scourge, like the Punisher, was meant to highlight that dolling out capital punishment to villains without giving them the right to trial or due process was not a good thing, which is why Gruenwald wrote one being involved in a mass shooting, wherein they walked into a bar and open fired, killing 18 people. We, the readers, were supposed to be horrified by this deed, even though the victims were criminals. He certainly wrote Cap as being horrified, as did Coates in today's issue. But in today's issue, in the Coates set-up, Steve did not have the whole story behind the cops, there was way more to that story, vital information Steve was missing, in fact.

    It's a sign of the times, I guess, that while Gruenwald, in the 80's, wrote Scourge as clearly being in the wrong, with Coates I'm wondering... are we meant to side with Scourge, here? Just a little bit? I mean, I sort of do. The Power Elite are trying to take over America, and they have the money and power to do it, they own the news, they own politicians, they are, quite frankly, terrorists, and, more personally, they are making Steve's life an absolute, living hell, and the Scourge just took out 20 of their foot soldiers without Steve and the Daughters having to lift a finger. I still believe in Due Process, of course, but this is war.

    I'm very curious who they are and how they knew the cops were dirty before the Daughters/Peggy did. I'm also fascinated by the contrast of how Gruenwald and Coates have utilized this particular villain and the different responses they evoke. Very intriguing stuff.

    I know that people here have complained about Coates work on Black Panther, but I gotta say, he's doing a good job with Cap.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 11-20-2019 at 04:29 PM.

  12. #762
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Questions I can't wait to find the answer to:

    Who are the current incarnation of Scourge of the Underworld? I'm trying to go over the candidates of who it could be in my head... Nick Fury Sr. (I mean he did go vigilante in his last story arc, so it could be him)? The remnants of SHIELD that did not go bad and join Orchis/Roxxon/Shadow Base? Allies/gray area villains from Steve's past? Or it could be Natasha, she's on a bit of a vigilante kick in her current title, as she was in the previous one, which had Steve in it? Or, and this one is more of a stretch given what was revealed by another poster here on Brevoort's feelings towards Rachel Leighton, but I have reasons for this next guess... defected Serpent Society members like Rachel, Black Mamba and Asp? My reasoning being: Serpent Society members were among Scourges targets in Gruenwald's run. Lot of possibilities here.

    How did they know that those cops were Power Elite plants before the Daughters of Liberty did? Where did they get their intel? Why are they just NOW showing up?

    And since they are aware that the cops were Power Elite plants, they must therein be aware that Steve was framed for Ross' murder and that the Power Elite are doing their damnest to discredit Steve in the eyes of the public, so are they unwitting allies hellbent on taking out the Power Elite and helping out Steve in the process of that is just happenstance, or is that a goal, too?

    It's possible Peggy is running two operations: she has the Daughter's doing the normal spy network stuff, and a second ops team more willing to do dirty work she doesn't want Sharon, et al, involved with?

  13. #763
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Questions I can't wait to find the answer to:

    Who are the current incarnation of Scourge of the Underworld? I'm trying to go over the candidates of who it could be in my head... Nick Fury Sr. (I mean he did go vigilante in his last story arc, so it could be him)? The remnants of SHIELD that did not go bad and join Orchis/Roxxon/Shadow Base? Allies/gray area villains from Steve's past? Or it could be Natasha, she's on a bit of a vigilante kick in her current title, as she was in the previous one, which had Steve in it? Or, and this one is more of a stretch given what was revealed by another poster here on Brevoort's feelings towards Rachel Leighton, but I have reasons for this next guess... defected Serpent Society members like Rachel, Black Mamba and Asp? My reasoning being: Serpent Society members were among Scourges targets in Gruenwald's run. Lot of possibilities here.

    How did they know that those cops were Power Elite plants before the Daughters of Liberty did? Where did they get their intel? Why are they just NOW showing up?

    And since they are aware that the cops were Power Elite plants, they must therein be aware that Steve was framed for Ross' murder and that the Power Elite are doing their damnest to discredit Steve in the eyes of the public, so are they unwitting allies hellbent on taking out the Power Elite and helping out Steve in the process of that is just happenstance, or is that a goal, too?

    It's possible Peggy is running two operations: she has the Daughter's doing the normal spy network stuff, and a second ops team more willing to do dirty work she doesn't want Sharon, et al, involved with?
    A mutual on Twitter just posited that Scourge could be Jack Monroe... now THATS an interesting idea. Can't remember, having a brain freeze, has Jack reappeared since Winter Soldier killed him in Bru's Cap run?

  14. #764
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    A mutual on Twitter just posited that Scourge could be Jack Monroe... now THATS an interesting idea. Can't remember, having a brain freeze, has Jack reappeared since Winter Soldier killed him in Bru's Cap run?
    Not that I'm aware of, but your last two posts are a pretty good assessment of this issue and the topics raised by it.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #765
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Not that I'm aware of, but your last two posts are a pretty good assessment of this issue and the topics raised by it.
    Any theories Huntsman Spider?

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