Victor Creed: Sabretooth Appreciation 2019

[Silver Fang]

If there's any fans left, appreciate away.

[Silver Fang]

delete post

[CRaymond]

Are there people who really like “good” Sabretooth? If so, why?

[Silver Fang]

Are there people who really like “good” Sabretooth? If so, why?

I loved Good Sabretooth. As for why? I'll quote my tumblr post.

For the last 15 years, Creed has been a HUGE jobber who gets beaten up by everyone. Even as a villain he is rarely bad news anymore because he’s KO’d in 5 sec. He’s been a second-rate villain for most of the last 15 years (since 2003). Some writers have tried to save him, but it doesn’t last because the next writer just puts him back in annoying loser territory. The heroes see him as a nuisance, not a threat like he used to be.He’s the annoying fly in the room, rather than the wasp you may be worried about. So that’s why I don’t mind the inversion -because there’s hardly anything left for him as a villain. He’s a D-lister at the point.

Plus a bonus, he had a better love interest after the inversion. As a villain, Creed has had a total of three real love interests. And two of them were introduced & killed off in minis. Otherwise, he’s always thrown to Mystique, who treats him let a pet that she likes one minute & abuses the next. He's a low-level henchman she occasionally shags. She's betrayed him, poisoned him, thrown him around, and shot him in the head at one point. Yet Creed has become so pathetic, he’s shown putting up with that treatment. Lady Mastermind, while working with them, points out how Creed is sweet on Mystique & considers her the be all and end all. PASS for me on that. Him falling for Monet, I approve. lol Mystique, he ought to wanna kill as much as Logan.

As a villain, this is the Sabretooth we get now.




And as a fan of a once badass villain, this is depressing & embarrassing, I have no interest in reading the D-list comedy wannabe villain he's turned into. He's about as threatening as Plankton (Spongebob).

Least after the Inversion, he started getting some respect as a character, and had potential for interesting stories. Before Pak ruined him, then shat on him. He had some good stories 15 years ago when writers cared to give some depth to villains, but they don't do that anymore, it seems.. So villain Sabretooth has nothing left to care about these days.

[CRaymond]

Ah. So the real problem is that I’m old and learned to save my money. :-)

I’ll agree that Sabretooth was turned into a bit of a joke. Not sure how to fix that without losing a lot of X-Men, and for the rest to gain scars. Maybe he shouldn’t have ever become an X-Men villain and remained a feature of the Wolverine book.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Uncanny X-Men #240 Jan 1989
Inferno: Part 1 of 7 - "Strike the Match!"
Alex Summers and Madelyne Pryor have decided to spend the evening at the Rainbow Room in Manhattan.
They have a romantic evening and can't help but notice that the place is empty and that the weather in Manhattan has been unseasonably warm.
Their evening is interrupted by a group of paranormal investigators who have come to set
up equipment to monitor the Empire State Building, which they believe is growing in size.
Their disturbance upset the owner of the shop and the scientists are kicked out.
As they enter the elevator they are surprised when the walls come to life and attack them.
While Havok talks to the owner, Madelyne examines the Empire State Building through binoculars and sees it as it really is and is happy.
When Alex rejoins her the two decide to return home to their secret hideout in Australia.
As they enter the elevator, Alex finds one of the scientists pairs of glasses and wonders what happened.
Madelyne, noticing the scientists are now part of the demonic mural in the elevator, dismisses their abrupt departure
and the two are soon teleported back to Australia by Gateway.
When Alex tries to spend more time with Madelyne, she decides to have some alone time and is teleported away by Gateway.
Realizing she's upset, Alex thinks he can come up with a way to help her and rushes towards the X-Men's base.

Madelyne, having adopted her Goblin Queen persona has come to Bard College where she finds the grave of Jean Grey.
She is angry that her husband Scott Summers supposedly got over his love of Jean when they married and angrily destroys Jean's tomb stone.
Coincidentally, Jean's parents John and Elaine had come to the grave site and mistaking Madelyne for Jean,
they are easily overpowered and transformed into demons, something she finds incredibly funny.
When N'Astirh joins her, she demands that he bring her to her son otherwise face her wraith.
N'Astirh complies and the four beings are teleported away.

Back in Australia, Rogue has taken to wearing some of Dazzler's clothing and trying to teach Longshot how to roller skate.
When Dazzler jealously confronts her, she upsets Longshot when she suggests that he is her own private property,
not realizing that while she loves Longshot he only regards her as a friend.
Seen on the monitors by Alex, he comments to himself how Longshot should be careful with Dazzler's feelings.
Using the devices, Alex manages to track down the Marauders.
When he realizes that Wolverine and Storm have sneaked up on him,
he tells the two that he has tracked the Marauders to the Alley where they had originally slaughtered the Morlocks.

Meanwhile, N'Astirh has teleported the Goblin Queen to a complex below an orphanage in Nebraska
where she finds a device similar to the Creche she saw in Genosha.
Wondering what it is, she gets a vision that suggests that she was grown in there.
When she looks at the plaque she finds that the experiment inside was called "Madelyne".

While in the Alley below Manhattan, the Marauders are settling into their new headquarters

when Blockbuster runs into the X-Men down one of the darkened alleys.
He is knocked flat by Colossus, starting the X-Men's ambush on the group.

The X-Men are out for blood and attack savagely, taking the Marauders by surprise.
In the confusion of battle, Blockbuster is surprised when the wall behind him suddenly comes to life and swallows him whole.
The battle takes another turn when Polaris uses her powers so snare Colossus and she gets into a "tug" of war with Storm,
who pits her wind generating power against Polaris' magnetic abilities -- the loser would be pummeled to death by Colossus's body.
However Polaris turns the tables by causing Colossus to smash through the top of the tunnel allowing the Marauders to escape to the surface above.
When the X-Men follow after them both groups are shocked to see the entire city has undergone some transformation.

Back in Nebraska, the Goblin Queen is furious over the lack of answers that N'Astirh has provided
when they are both confronted by Mr. Sinister who tells Madelyne that he is her father.

Story by Chris Claremont. Art by Marc Silvestri and Dan Green.

[Tugger]

Just bought the X-Men Marauders trade, (collects X-Men (1991) 188-199, 200-204 (A Stories); X-Men Annual (2007) 1), which sees a shaken Sabretooth arrive at the X-Men's doorstep - asking for asylum.

This is one of my favourites (story and team line-up).

[WildR]

It's cheerful to see him play in other non-mutant characters' series.
If he finally show up in Black Widow's story, there's little need to make he perform like a sandbag,which is common in many X-heros' books through these years.

If Victor doesn't show up in Wolverine's last issue of return,I will be thankful.

[From The Shadows]

Old Sabretooth.

[From The Shadows]

^^^^^^^^

[From The Shadows]

Are there people who really like “good” Sabretooth? If so, why?

I definitely want him as a villain. I personally think good Victor only worked in AoA. He did way to much awful stuff to just be a hero now.

I loved Good Sabretooth. As for why? I'll quote my tumblr post.

As a villain, this is the Sabretooth we get now.




And as a fan of a once badass villain, this is depressing & embarrassing, I have no interest in reading the D-list comedy wannabe villain he's turned into. He's about as threatening as Plankton (Spongebob).

Least after the Inversion, he started getting some respect as a character, and had potential for interesting stories. Before Pak ruined him, then shat on him. He had some good stories 15 years ago when writers cared to give some depth to villains, but they don't do that anymore, it seems.. So villain Sabretooth has nothing left to care about these days.

Well... how much love do you expect this guy to get with how awfully he has treated women and people in general? He had a good woman in Birdy but treated her like trash. He was a rapist/serial killer/sociopath. It's only realistic. If he wants love he should find someone who likes his villainy and is just as evil as he. They could go on killing sprees together as a killer couple. Granted he had a shitty childhood but so did many mutants. I prefer him to be a villain. If they can't get him back to his former glory I still don't think hero is the proper route for him. And the redemption thing has kind of become cliché at this point. That said, Mystique is certainly no prize and I wouldn't care if he offed her. I haven't liked Mystique outside of Claremont, frankly.

[Silver Fang]

I definitely want him as a villain. I personally think good Victor only worked in AoA. He did way to much awful stuff to just be a hero now.

AoA Sabretooth was no different. He mentioned in his intro in the One-Shot that he had his fill of murdering women & children. So he was a women child killer just like his 616 counterpart. Only difference is us not seeing him do it like we did with 616 Creed. But AoA Creed as a hero is just as contrived.

A Serial killer who just randomly got bored with it. So he joins up with Apocalypse, who is not a good person. Helped do a lot of heinous things under him, then only joined the X-Men to save his ass so he could get revenge on Apocalypse. Now he's some noble warrior who wants to help people & found Blink because he wasn't gonna leave someone to die -never-mind all the people he's helped kill, and killed himself.

That's why Mimic hated him so much. Because he'd always be the number one man in Blink's life,despite being a savage.

I like AoA Creed. But him as a hero is about the same as 616 Creed becoming one.

Well... how much love do you expect this guy to get with how awfully he has treated women and people in general? He had a good woman in Birdy but treated her like trash. He was a rapist/serial killer/sociopath. It's only realistic. If he wants love he should find someone who likes his villainy and is just as evil as he. They could go on killing sprees together as a killer couple. Granted he had a shitty childhood but so did many mutants. I prefer him to be a villain. If they can't get him back to his former glory I still don't think hero is the proper route for him. And the redemption thing has kind of become cliché at this point. That said, Mystique is certainly no prize and I wouldn't care if he offed her. I haven't liked Mystique outside of Claremont, frankly.

He had a good woman in Bonnie, and he was crazy about her. Idk why people bring up Birdy. She didn't love him & he didn't love her. He used her to get the glow, and that was it. Meanwhile, she served him because she was scared of him. Birdy was basically a servant.

Now he had a good woman in Bonnie, who loved him, and he loved her. he spent the entire mini series trying to save her life, and failed. So she got killed off very quickly.
Bonnie (2).jpg

He loved Holly, another good woman he also loved, and wanted to settle down with. She got killed off too.
Holly's History.jpg

Now, we're stuck with him x Mystique, the latter who does nothing but make a fool out of him. And he looks like a punk for being so stuck on a woman like her, to the point he allows her to cheat on him & shoot him in the head when she's angry. He's in love with her, and she barely cares anything about him. I don't ship him with her for the same reason I would never ship him with Birdy. It's an abusive relationship, with one particularly party having dominance over the other.

As an anti-hero (not counting Pak) Creed got more respect than he ever did the 13 years before. Again, villain Creed has nothing to offer at this point, and I'd have rather they killed him off than continue writing him as a one-note punching bag. Even in the 90's at his worst, he did have more layers to his character. Now doesn't mean the layers were unique in story-telling, but they were there. These days he's all about getting punk'd by Logan. And I don't see it changing. I haven't loved or been interested in villain Creed since a 2003. story. lol

For anyone offended by language, i'm gonna spoiler the word I use to describe villain Creed now. Villain Creed's perfect description now is a spoilers:

pussy

end of spoilers.

[From The Shadows]

AoA Sabretooth was no different. He mentioned in his intro in the One-Shot that he had his fill of murdering women & children. So he was a women child killer just like his 616 counterpart. Only difference is us not seeing him do it like we did with 616 Creed. But AoA Creed as a hero is just as contrived.

A Serial killer who just randomly got bored with it. So he joins up with Apocalypse, who is not a good person. Helped do a lot of heinous things under him, then only joined the X-Men to save his ass so he could get revenge on Apocalypse. Now he's some noble warrior who wants to help people & found Blink because he wasn't gonna leave someone to die -never-mind all the people he's helped kill, and killed himself.

That's why Mimic hated him so much. Because he'd always be the number one man in Blink's life,despite being a savage.

I like AoA Creed. But him as a hero is about the same as 616 Creed becoming one.



He had a good woman in Bonnie, and he was crazy about her. Idk why people bring up Birdy. She didn't love him & he didn't love her. He used her to get the glow, and that was it. Meanwhile, she served him because she was scared of him. Birdy was basically a servant.

Now he had a good woman in Bonnie, who loved him, and he loved her. he spent the entire mini series trying to save her life, and failed. So she got killed off very quickly.
Bonnie (2).jpg

He loved Holly, another good woman he also loved, and wanted to settle down with. She got killed off too.
Holly's History.jpg

Now, we're stuck with him x Mystique, the latter who does nothing but make a fool out of him. And he looks like a punk for being so stuck on a woman like her, to the point he allows her to cheat on him & shoot him in the head when she's angry. He's in love with her, and she barely cares anything about him. I don't ship him with her for the same reason I would never ship him with Birdy. It's an abusive relationship, with one particularly party having dominance over the other.

As an anti-hero (not counting Pak) Creed got more respect than he ever did the 13 years before. Again, villain Creed has nothing to offer at this point, and I'd have rather than killed him off than continue writing him as a one-note punching bag. Even in the 90's at his worst, he did have more layers to his character. Now doesn't mean the layers were unique in story-telling, but they were there. These days he's all about getting punk'd by Logan. And I don't see it changing. I haven't loved or been interested in villain Creed since 2003. lol

That's why I prefer him a villain. I suppose he can be altruistic at times. I have heard that some serial killers would do a nice thing. The whole thing with Bonnie is when I personally thought they were testing the waters due to AoA and it never rang true with me. He never showed empathy at all prior to this. AoA Sabes was actually misguided if I remember correctly and not an out and out sociopath. Now Birdy actually cared about him didn't he? Yeah, she was scared of him like she should have been but she actually saw the abused child he was. I don't care for doormat relationships myself and think he should get a bad woman that he respects and who respects him but I don't expect a good girl to fall for him unless she's not thinking clearly.

[Silver Fang]

That's why I prefer him a villain. I suppose he can be altruistic at times. I have heard that some serial killers would do a nice thing. The whole thing with Bonnie is when I personally thought they were testing the waters due to AoA and it never rang true with me. He never showed empathy at all prior to this. AoA Sabes was actually misguided if I remember correctly and not an out and out sociopath. Now Birdy actually cared about him didn't he? Yeah, she was scared of him like she should have been but she actually saw the abused child he was. I don't care for doormat relationships myself and think he should get a bad woman that he respects and who respects him but I don't expect a good girl to fall for him unless she's not thinking clearly.

He actually did. We saw twice prior to that he loved his mother. Mystique tried to use it against him when she turned into his mother to upset him.

Then when Logan calls him a motherless piece of -Creed clobbers him for bringing up his mother.

So it was consistent he loved his mother. We can't forget he also spared Graydon, despite killing the thing that kept him someone sane (Bridy). Then when meeting him again in X-Factor, Creed says he's Graydon's biggest supporter and even yells to Graydon "Good luck son, remember me when you become president." So he did have some fondness for his son. Mystique on the other hand was the parent to kill him without a care.

And there's been other moments such as his love interests (the good ones) who have shown even he has a soft side.

Hell, I'd rather see more of his relationship with Momma than Mystique.
Momma.jpg
At least this seemed more genuine than anything they had.

But not the case. Villain Creed is only ever going to have a relationship with Mystique. Now. Idk why Marvel is intent on forcing this retconned mess of a relationship. But that's become the standard. If anything different were going to be done, it'd have happened by now.

So with Creed as a villain, we'll get him
1. Being abused by Mystique while following her around like a puppy.
2. Getting manhandled by Wolverine and everyone else in the M.U.

And....well, that's about it. It's been the status quo for 14 years. lol Well, 14 years on Creed being a punk. 5 years on his romance with Mystique.

The days of Creed being the villain he was are over. If he's used as a villain, he's only ever going to be a slapstick punk. I guess it's Marvel's way of making him usable without offending anyone. Except for fans who liked the badass version.

[TheDeadSpace]

He actually did. We saw twice prior to that he loved his mother. Mystique tried to use it against him when she turned into his mother to upset him.

Then when Logan calls him a motherless piece of -Creed clobbers him for bringing up his mother.

So it was consistent he loved his mother. We can't forget he also spared Graydon, despite killing the thing that kept him someone sane (Bridy). Then when meeting him again in X-Factor, Creed says he's Graydon's biggest supporter and even yells to Graydon "Good luck son, remember me when you become president." So he did have some fondness for his son. Mystique on the other hand was the parent to kill him without a care.

And there's been other moments such as his love interests (the good ones) who have shown even he has a soft side.

Hell, I'd rather see more of his relationship with Momma than Mystique.
Momma.jpg
At least this seemed more genuine than anything they had.

But not the case. Villain Creed is only ever going to have eyes for Mystique. Now. Idk why Marvel is intent on forcing this retconned mess of a relationship. But that's become the standard. If anything different were going to be done, it'd have happened by now.

So with Creed as a villain, we'll get him
1. Being abused by Mystique while following her around like a puppy.
2. Getting manhandled by Wolverine and everyone else in the M.U.

And....well, that's about it. It's been the status quo for 14 years. lol Well, 14 years on Creed being a punk. 5 years on his romance with Mystique.

The days of Creed being the villain he was are over. If he's used as a villain, he's only ever going to be a slapstick punk. I guess it's Marvel's way of making him usable without offending anyone. Except for fans who liked the badass version.

This is all very interesting. I never realized how bad Creed had been treated till now. I like him as a villain, but felt they could have explored more with him as an antihero. After reading your posts, I can't help but ask what you would think would be a good direction for Creed if given the chance to decide?