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  1. #121
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    Lol so true!

    Maybe Marvel is going to bring some old classic characters back for Hickman's big saga, it could be interesting.
    We started with Graydon it seems. lol I suppose his return could be good if he benefits Sabretooth. He did give Creed is first strength enhancement. Maybe Graydon can augment his father more. Sabretooth needs a power-up to be competitive again. Logan gets them all the time, and so did Mystique.

    So to repay his father for reviving him, and a matter of erasing any debt to a mutant, have Graydon use his resources to boost Creed a bit.

    Yeah I really didn't like how he was written in this mini or during most of the Logan Legacy/Wolverines stuff it was terrible especially at the end of Wolverines.
    All that stuff was bad. If he wasn't getting jobbed, then he was acting like a coward. And I think we covered the patheticness of him dressing men up as Wolverine, and dreaming about him while ending the issue thinking he could do better than Logan. Is this an enemy or an ex boyfriend?

    Mary Shelly Overdrive was really good, but yeah beyond that it wasn't that great for Sabretooth. He got some good moments during the Rucka/Aaron Wolverine's run, Duggan's Deadpool, Remender's UXF, Brisson's Iron Fist or Bunn's Ucanny but each time there was something good with him, we also some terrible stories not long afterwards like Way/Loeb's Wolverine stuff or Austen's X-Men which is a shame.
    That's the pattern!!!!!!!! I have been saying it for the longest. ANYTIME Creed got good stories that did him justice, we followed right after with a bad one that punk'd him out again.

    After Tierri's Wonderful Weapon X series, we got Austen. Who just wrecked Sabretooth in every way possible.

    Whatever Tierri's Sabretooth was, his was the opposite.

    Aaron tried to move Creed up the villain ladder, but he added the Mystique romance that we're now stuck with. Then Bendis came along and wrote that Creed is sweet on Mystique & thinks she's the be all & end all while working for her under the delusion that he's still the leader. And Bendis always has Creed jobbing out and looking stupid. And nothing Soule was in charge of helped that.

    We got AXIS, which once again had him being useless and getting easily jobbed.


    But once the Inversion happened, it got a bit better. Except for the pairing crap with Mystique in AXIS 9. lol Then we had a low point with Wolverines, which goes back to punking him.

    Then he had the most decent run he's had with Rage of Ultron, Uncanny Avengers, Uncanny X-Men, Duggan's Deadpool. Then dammit if Pak didn't undo all his character develop and start writing him with every bad characterization he's had since Austen. Brisson stepped in to save him for a mini. But Pak's destruction continued. His Sabretooth slipped from one bad thing to another. He went from being a jobbed-out moron to a slightly smarter immature frat boy. Sadly immature frat boy is the lesser evil, so I accepted that as improvement.

    But yeah. The pattern continues. Sabretooth is never allowed to be cleaned up because as soon as a writer tries, it's like the X-Office says "Take Sabretooth back down a notch." And we get crap coming off a good arc.

    Honestly, it was so nice to see Tieri back during the Deadpool wedding issue even if it was just for a short flashback with Sabretooth trolling both Deadpool and Mystique:
    It was a good flashback, but I did have a pet-peeve with continuity. I sometimes re-read Tierri's WX so it was easier for me to spot. In his run, by the time Deadpool joins WX, Copycat was already a rogue agent that they needed to kill. So her being there is a bit off. Then it was written Mystique does her puking as an excuse to get in Jackson's office to steal mutant files, but Sabretooth was the one stealing the files in that run.

    That's my only pet-peeves, but it was a good moment for Creed that he had Mystique figured out & she had to move quick before he outed her. Even though Creed seemed content to not do anything, other than watch her feel awkward. lol

    Monet because he wanted to close this chapter and Deadpool because he never wrote him before and to boost the sales numbers but yeah in the end they didn't have any meaningful roles and it went nowhere except for Monet who got a new haircut I guess lol.
    And Deadpool didn't boost sales at all since estimates had the series still dropping in numbers. Even worse that he oversold Monet. When asked on twitter if she'd join the team, he says fans of her shouldn't miss the next chapters. But she didn't do anything those next issues, besides be a background character.

    Her hair grew back by issue 26. So even that wasn't lasting. The only thing that lasted was putting her back in that terrible X-Factor outfit.
    tumblr_plfe91LNih1t61sui_1280.jpg
    Ugh lol

    Having Sabretooth going to hell and confronting his past deeds was a good idea but I didn't like this whole Stryker/demon plot but who knows maybe you're right and Graydon will have a role during Hickman's saga. Maybe it's a similar situation to what happened in the 2000s where Lobdell came back on X-Men in order to finish most of the plotlines (Legacy virus, neo, Magneto's war) in order to let Morrison do his own stuff, so it could be interesting.

    In any case the whole X-Men franchise really needs a shot in the arm, it becomes a big mess and Marvel giving Hickman the reigns of the X-Men's franchise is a step in the right direction that's for sure.
    I am all for an X-Reboot. Get rid of everything that happened to Sabretooth since 2003. We'd lose Mary Shelley Overdrive, but sadly I think that came the year of Austen. So it must be sacrificed. lol

    Sabretooth had a few good stories I liked, that all came during his inversion. But since that's already been erased, we may as well erase everything & start him back over from where Tierri left off.

    That means all his worst stuff is gone. Especially Loeb x Romulous. Along with the Mystique romance. Monet would be lost too, but oh well. Marvel didn't let that go anywhere anyhow. So we're just losing useless baggage.

    Ah nice! The interactions between Wade and Creed were amazing during that story, Duggan really managed to do something interesting with the inversion.
    Also Duggan could do pop cultural references with Creed, and it's not too cringey. Like him saying he liked The Hitcher and his "Bye Felicia" when showing DP in front of a car. lol

    He really had some good ideas, maybe one day Marvel will give him a Sabretooth mini to write, it could be fun.
    It'd be great. So I doubt it'll happen. lol But Bunn did seem to enjoy writing him, so maybe he'll ask for him some day. Brisson also said he liked writing Creed and showing the multi-facetted side of him. So I am all for him getting Creed back.

    Brisson, Bunn, or Duggan getting him back could work. Yet they're possibly giving him back to Pak....ugh. lol More frat boy Creed incoming.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 03-28-2019 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #122
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    I like his romance with Mystique, at least as showed in Larry Hama and Mark Texeira's mini and how it was done by Remender and Phil Noto in the last arc of Uncanny X-Force. They have a past and they fuck from time to time, but that doesn't mean they can't be trying to kill each other the next day. More touch and go, less constant couple
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  3. #123
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    I can do without it. Especially when it's not an even relationship. He's been written as loving her, and she couldn't care less about him, has no respect for him, abuses him, and sells him out whenever it's convenient. The relationship makes him look whipped.

    This isn't to say you're wrong, change your mind, or say you shouldn't ship it. But rather me venting out my frustrations at said ship.

    Remender is the one having Creed getting jealous of her screwing other guys, and her telling him to deal with it. While he climbs back in bed and starts feeding and cuddling with her. If they're just Fuck Buddies, the cuddling & pillow talk needs to be left out. Creed need not care who else she's screwing. And he shouldn't be driven into a frenzy whenever someone hurts her. Then during AXIS Remender once again tries to sell this ship with them talking about the (retconned) first meeting when they tried to kill each other, then screwed afterwards while they loving look at each other as Mystique is caressing his face and he holds her hand. Then he saves her from Rogue, who threatens to murder Mystique in front of him just to hurt him.

    Then despite me hating Mystique, it makes no sense for her to be with Sabretooth. They screwed while hauled up in the safe house, but she faked her death to get away from him. And never revealed her true identity to him since he had to be shown a picture of her in his 90's mini series, then jokes that she looks just like her pic when he saw her. Then in their 90's mini series, she was repulsed by him. When he touches her hair, she morphs into a monster & threatens to gouge his eyes out if he does so again. meanwhile the dude she was trying to get with was Forge.

    Then back when Creed used to be badass, he's almost killed her numerous times, sold out mutants that she used to care so much about protecting, worked for mutant haters, and in general just mocks everything she used to stand for. He even tells her he doesn't give a damn about mutants.
    RCO008.jpg
    She's got no reason to be with him. And for me, the ship does nothing but highlight their respective character assassinations over the last 16 - 20 years.

    We also can't forget he murdered Destiny's family just to spite her, and only didn't kill Chase because he was stopped. But he still taunts her about it. She assassinated Graydon for messing with Destiny's family. She shouldn't be sleeping with Sabretooth.

    Before her own character assassination, Mystique was a mutant Freedom Fighter, and being with Sabretooth goes against everything she stood for and cements her fall from a more complex gray character to a complete psychotic mustache twirling villain. Like writers wanna make them the Chuck x Tiffany of the M.U. Except that relationship is an even one. Both are crazy as Hell and give as good as they get to each other.

    Meanwhile Mystique is clearly the boss in her relationship to Creed, who comes off like her whipped Henchman / fuck toy. Or the season 6 Spike to her Buffy. Which is the same thing.

    Especially when you got Creed saying stuff like "I don't like takin' order from a frail, but Mystique is the one exception." *HUGE EYEROLL*


    Sabretooth hit on her in the 90's, but he did the same with Jean, Psylocke, Polaris, and Shard. lol So his flirting means nothing. He still almost killed all but one of these women. He doesn't need to be paired up with any of them.

    I'm sick of seeing that ship. Imo, every other woman Creed had has been better.
    Holly's History.jpg
    Typical Monet is the one we never got a kiss with.

    I wouldn't mind seeing any of these ships come up again. But true to form, we're stuck with his most bland, retconned, relationship that gives little reason to be cared about & has no depth whatsoever. Again, that's the X-Office for ya. Wolverine gets to fall in love and have nice relationships 5+ times a decade. Meanwhile Creed only gets Mystique when she's not screwing the MU and backstabbing him.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 03-28-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #124

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    For those interested, he's been added to the Marvel Future Fight mobile game.
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  5. #125
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    This isn't to say you're wrong, change your mind, or say you shouldn't ship it. But rather me venting out my frustrations at said ship.
    Hey, no problem. I liked Victor Creed being jealous of Mystique sleeping with another man in that particular moment because I didn't take it as him being in love, but as a machist gesture. We might have different takes but we both agree that Victor Creed hasn't received a good treat from quite some time. I don't consider myself a shipper though. I don't care who Sabretooth has sex with, but I'm not a fan of him having a girlfriend, at least not in his villain role, just lovers. I'm all in for more Sabretooth and that old lady from Aaron's run. For someone who has lived so many years, it's great that he has a lover that is old now but still making out with him. Wolverine's lovers usually die too soon, except for Seraph
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  6. #126
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    We started with Graydon it seems. lol I suppose his return could be good if he benefits Sabretooth. He did give Creed is first strength enhancement. Maybe Graydon can augment his father more. Sabretooth needs a power-up to be competitive again. Logan gets them all the time, and so did Mystique.

    So to repay his father for reviving him, and a matter of erasing any debt to a mutant, have Graydon use his resources to boost Creed a bit.
    Well to be honest, the last "upgrade" Mavel gave to Logan was terrible so be careful what you wish for lol. But seriously maybe not a power boost, but Victor could use Graydon's political connections or ressources to gain some influence or something. I mean making him the new Kingpin could be fun or just have him run for Mayor of a big city (like what happened with Wilson Fisk), he would be unstopable and more dangerous than ever.

    All that stuff was bad. If he wasn't getting jobbed, then he was acting like a coward. And I think we covered the patheticness of him dressing men up as Wolverine, and dreaming about him while ending the issue thinking he could do better than Logan. Is this an enemy or an ex boyfriend?
    That Logan legacy mini was so dumb lol, I'm still amazed that someone at Marvel greenlighted this thing.

    That's the pattern!!!!!!!! I have been saying it for the longest. ANYTIME Creed got good stories that did him justice, we followed right after with a bad one that punk'd him out again.

    After Tierri's Wonderful Weapon X series, we got Austen. Who just wrecked Sabretooth in every way possible.

    Whatever Tierri's Sabretooth was, his was the opposite.
    Ah Austen, so many good memories such as this pic, Logan getting his ass kicked by some shitty werewolf wannabe, Polaris/Havok/Annie love triangle, the Bobby/Havok scene, Azrael, Paige/Angel, etc...

    The perfect definition of a trainwreck lol but damn I'm still salty about what happened to Creed and Lorna during this run.

    Aaron tried to move Creed up the villain ladder, but he added the Mystique romance that we're now stuck with. Then Bendis came along and wrote that Creed is sweet on Mystique & thinks she's the be all & end all while working for her under the delusion that he's still the leader. And Bendis always has Creed jobbing out and looking stupid. And nothing Soule was in charge of helped that.
    See I don't mind Creed/Mystique as long as they're both betraying each other all the time but always having Creed being her little pet is annoying that's for sure. At least during the Aaron and Remender's run, both were treated equally, Bendis on the other hand...

    Both Cornell and Soule completely destroyed everything Aaron built with Creed just to have him becoming Viper's pet, what a waste. With any luck Soule will stay far away from Creed in the future.

    We got AXIS, which once again had him being useless and getting easily jobbed.


    But once the Inversion happened, it got a bit better. Except for the pairing crap with Mystique in AXIS 9. lol Then we had a low point with Wolverines, which goes back to punking him.
    I'm not the biggest fan of Axis, hell I think it kind of ruined the whole Uncanny Avengers series but yeah at the time with the inversion I thought maybe Marvel would have tried something like "Superior Wolverine" or "Superior Sabretooth" with the inverted Creed trying to be better (but still ferocious) by facing some of Wolverine old foes like Omega Red, Deathstrike, Ogun, etc.. while still feeling that the inversion was slowly fading it could have been fun but alas it never happened.

    Then he had the most decent run he's had with Rage of Ultron, Uncanny Avengers, Uncanny X-Men, Duggan's Deadpool. Then dammit if Pak didn't undo all his character develop and start writing him with every bad characterization he's had since Austen. Brisson stepped in to save him for a mini. But Pak's destruction continued. His Sabretooth slipped from one bad thing to another. He went from being a jobbed-out moron to a slightly smarter immature frat boy. Sadly immature frat boy is the lesser evil, so I accepted that as improvement.

    But yeah. The pattern continues. Sabretooth is never allowed to be cleaned up because as soon as a writer tries, it's like the X-Office says "Take Sabretooth back down a notch." And we get crap coming off a good arc.
    For a while it was okay, but yeah Weapon X wasn't my cup of tea at all. I know some people like this series and I respect their opinion but damn it was tough to read for me, that joke about him not being able to use a computer was really dumb for example. I decided to finish the series recently, and even the characterization of Omega Red was horrible, the guy is a monster, a serial killer and now he's blaming the X-Men for what he did lol.

    But seriously that's the biggest problem with Creed in recent years, the X-Office was affraid to stick to a direction for a while and each time it went nowhere. Now what gives me hope is that Jordan White was the editor of the Deadpool series during the Duggan run and if his characterization during WOTR is good too, maybe we're going to have a compelling Sabretooth in the future.

    It was a good flashback, but I did have a pet-peeve with continuity. I sometimes re-read Tierri's WX so it was easier for me to spot. In his run, by the time Deadpool joins WX, Copycat was already a rogue agent that they needed to kill. So her being there is a bit off. Then it was written Mystique does her puking as an excuse to get in Jackson's office to steal mutant files, but Sabretooth was the one stealing the files in that run.

    That's my only pet-peeves, but it was a good moment for Creed that he had Mystique figured out & she had to move quick before he outed her. Even though Creed seemed content to not do anything, other than watch her feel awkward. lol
    Yeah it doesn't work continuity wise, maybe that's Deadpool not remembering things the exact same way it happened, wouldn't be the first time lol. But yeah beyond that it was nice to see the real Sabretooth back in action.

    And Deadpool didn't boost sales at all since estimates had the series still dropping in numbers. Even worse that he oversold Monet. When asked on twitter if she'd join the team, he says fans of her shouldn't miss the next chapters. But she didn't do anything those next issues, besides be a background character.

    Her hair grew back by issue 26. So even that wasn't lasting. The only thing that lasted was putting her back in that terrible X-Factor outfit.
    tumblr_plfe91LNih1t61sui_1280.jpg
    Ugh lol
    Not really surprising, it seems at the time Deadpool's popularity in the comics took a hit after being overexposed and having so many overpriced issues in his own ongoing in a short laps of time and to be honest losing OML and then Warpath sure didn't help the sales either.

    I remember that when the preview of Weapon X dropped, I thought "Hey maybe that's Monet under that hood because she has her old costume" lol. But yeah maybe updating her costume would be a good idea and wow I didn't know she was in Disassembled, is she in AOX right now?

    I am all for an X-Reboot. Get rid of everything that happened to Sabretooth since 2003. We'd lose Mary Shelley Overdrive, but sadly I think that came the year of Austen. So it must be sacrificed. lol

    Sabretooth had a few good stories I liked, that all came during his inversion. But since that's already been erased, we may as well erase everything & start him back over from where Tierri left off.

    That means all his worst stuff is gone. Especially Loeb x Romulous. Along with the Mystique romance. Monet would be lost too, but oh well. Marvel didn't let that go anywhere anyhow. So we're just losing useless baggage.
    Well you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs lol. I think Sabretooth's recent appearances are easy to retcon by using the whole clones thing that Claremont wanted to use a long time ago. Regarding his backstory with Romulus, just say that Romulus is just one of the Weapon Plus failed experiment and was created by combining both Logan and Creed DNA after House of M by the real Sabretooth or Colcord to mess with Wolverine.

    And with Mystique, hey just say she never met the real Sabretooth only his clones lol, but yeah all of that are just useless baggage that make the character less and less compelling unfortunately.

    Also Duggan could do pop cultural references with Creed, and it's not too cringey. Like him saying he liked The Hitcher and his "Bye Felicia" when showing DP in front of a car. lol
    Yeah much better than the jokes he did during Weapon X like "Dick Steele" or "Boob inspection". It's a shame because sometimes Pak's Creed could be interesting, like when he outsmarted and manipulated Omega Red in Weapon X #18:



    So yeah it's a shame, Brisson, Duggan, Bunn and after reading his Venom series and the issue he did with Wolverine I'm sure Donny Cates could also do a great job too, if Pak is really the one who get to write a mini with Sabretooth I hope he learned from his mistakes and did something better than whatever he did on Weapon X.
    Last edited by Hush; 03-29-2019 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #127
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    Well to be honest, the last "upgrade" Mavel gave to Logan was terrible so be careful what you wish for lol. But seriously maybe not a power boost, but Victor could use Graydon's political connections or ressources to gain some influence or something. I mean making him the new Kingpin could be fun or just have him run for Mayor of a big city (like what happened with Wilson Fisk), he would be unstopable and more dangerous than ever.
    I swear I read that Hickman didn't care for the Hot Claws & wouldn't be using them. If not Hickman, I know I read that about someone.

    Honestly, as much as Creed jobs, I am open to any useful power-up. Even if it's just giving him another strength enhancement. Your idea works too, but given it's Graydon & he'll probably still be a mutie hater, he may not wanna deal with Creed too much. So I figured he'd do a bare minimum payment.

    I swear though, if we ever get Creed meeting past victims again, I would LOVE to see him meet Birdy & his father again. There's a lot you can do with those. lol

    That Logan legacy mini was so dumb lol, I'm still amazed that someone at Marvel greenlighted this thing.
    Given some things I have seen, nothing surprises me anymore. A controversial example. Look at Monet in the 90's vs. how she's mostly depicted since the 2000's.


    So ya see how Marvel is with consistency, and proper character depiction. No shock they let anything bad with Sabretooth hit the floor.

    Ah Austen, so many good memories such as this pic, Logan getting his ass kicked by some shitty werewolf wannabe, Polaris/Havok/Annie love triangle, the Bobby/Havok scene, Azrael, Paige/Angel, etc...

    The perfect definition of a trainwreck lol but damn I'm still salty about what happened to Creed and Lorna during this run.
    I Mainly hate it because that run seemed to be iconic for some reason, and appears to be what most writers based Sabretooth's characterization off of. Instead of Tierri's.

    Idk if there's truth to it. But tv tropes mentions Sabretooth being a base breaking character. He had fans who loved his ruthless evil. But some who were offended or put-off by it. So to make him less offensive & more acceptable, they started writing him as a complete joke / the opposite to how he was when his popularity peaked in the 90's.

    See I don't mind Creed/Mystique as long as they're both betraying each other all the time but always having Creed being her little pet is annoying that's for sure. At least during the Aaron and Remender's run, both were treated equally, Bendis on the other hand...
    Idk if it was Remender or Bendis. But someone wrote Mystique shooting Creed in the head when she got pissed off. And afterwards, Creed is still obediently taking orders from her. But it's been a min. since I could find what series that was.

    But THAT is the kind of thing right there that makes me hate Creed x Mystique. Given the latter is a more popular character, Creed will be used as an accessory to prop her up just like he is for Wolverine. Very few writers are gonna have them be equal.

    Both Cornell and Soule completely destroyed everything Aaron built with Creed just to have him becoming Viper's pet, what a waste. With any luck Soule will stay far away from Creed in the future.
    Sadly I did a compilation of Creed's recent failures as a villain. Most of them I posted here. But check my post here on tumblr.
    http://fangirl-bakery.tumblr.com/pos...again-come-may
    If you have anymore scans of Jobbertooth that you think deserve to be posted, plea let me know.

    I show this, because that Viper thing was criminal & it was one of the examples. lol

    For a while it was okay, but yeah Weapon X wasn't my cup of tea at all. I know some people like this series and I respect their opinion but damn it was tough to read for me, that joke about him not being able to use a computer was really dumb for example. I decided to finish the series recently, and even the characterization of Omega Red was horrible, the guy is a monster, a serial killer and now he's blaming the X-Men for what he did lol.
    Omega Red surely needs to be ignored. Prior to that series, he literally had NO humanity in him, and I think was hinted to be a child molester in one story. Even Sabretooth had moments of humanity in the 90's and 2000's that Omega Red never showed.

    I agree with you on chapter 18 where Creed outsmarts Omega Red. That'slike the old Creed from Tierri's run. Honestly, that was probably the best Creed was written in the entire book.

    But seriously that's the biggest problem with Creed in recent years, the X-Office was afraid to stick to a direction for a while and each time it went nowhere. Now what gives me hope is that Jordan White was the editor of the Deadpool series during the Duggan run and if his characterization during WOTR is good too, maybe we're going to have a compelling Sabretooth in the future.
    One could only hope. For now, I have sworn to opt out of reading Creed. But if a solid fellow Creed fan were to give me a heads-up that he wasn't punk'd out in the story, then I could read it.

    I don't plan to read him in Uncanny War of Realms, but you seem to be on board for it. If it's good,please drop me a message to let me know it's safe. lol

    I remember that when the preview of Weapon X dropped, I thought "Hey maybe that's Monet under that hood because she has her old costume" lol. But yeah maybe updating her costume would be a good idea and wow I didn't know she was in Disassembled, is she in AOX right now?
    She hasn't shown up in AoX yet. Unknown if she'll get a cameo or not. Frenzy was there too, but hasn't popped up yet.

    Well you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs lol. I think Sabretooth's recent appearances are easy to retcon by using the whole clones thing that Claremont wanted to use a long time ago. Regarding his backstory with Romulus, just say that Romulus is just one of the Weapon Plus failed experiment and was created by combining both Logan and Creed DNA after House of M by the real Sabretooth or Colcord to mess with Wolverine.

    And with Mystique, hey just say she never met the real Sabretooth only his clones lol, but yeah all of that are just useless baggage that make the character less and less compelling unfortunately.
    It all works out. Sabretooth needs a complete do-over. He's sucked as a villain for most of the last 16 years. There was that story where Wolverine lost his healing factor & Creed beat him into retirement, but it's just not as good when Creed can only defeat a powerless Wolverine. Plus the same writer did the following story with Sabretooth trying to create his own ideal world, and his showdow with Wolverine ended in a one-sided beatdown.

    Yeah much better than the jokes he did during Weapon X like "Dick Steele" or "Boob inspection". It's a shame because sometimes Pak's Creed could be interesting, like when he outsmarted and manipulated Omega Red in Weapon X #18:
    Those were terrible!!!!!!! Along with him lurking on twitter, having a dating profile, and texting with emojis. Sabretooth has gone from some occasional pop cultural references to a lame millennial.

    And the worst ones, imo were still his "Yo mama" joke to Warpath and "I Can Haz Cheeseburger." But I think issue 17 was the WORST chapter we had in terms of Creed's depiction. Following by his repeated ass-kicking by Hulk Cho.

    So yeah it's a shame, Brisson, Duggan, Bunn and after reading his Venom series and the issue he did with Wolverine I'm sure Donny Cates could also do a great job too, if Pak is really the one who get to write a mini with Sabretooth I hope he learned from his mistakes and did something better than whatever he did on Weapon X.
    More often than not, he probably hasn't. But who knows. I listed some changes he made on earlier pages. Pak is pretty active on twitter and sometimes when fans complain enough about certain things he screwed up, it seemed like adjustments were made slightly.

    1. Creed getting beaten up by X-23. I know myself & another fan ranted back & forth about that on twitter. Their next fight, Pak did allow Creed to rip off half her face.
    2. Lumping Deathstrike in with mutants. Met with a lot of complaints, so he had her later announcing that she was a Cyborg.
    3. Numerous complaints about how dumb he made Sabretooth. After he becomes the leader, he's more unorthodox but effective, rather than a complete moron.
    etc. Just three small examples.

    So maybe he'll improve a bit more on any new projects with Creed. One can only hope. If the story ends up mattering.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 04-01-2019 at 06:29 AM.

  8. #128
    Fantastic Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    I always wanted to see a fight scene where Sabretooth drives his claws up Wolverines guts and pulls out his heart and eats it.

  9. #129
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    It would be great to see Simone Bianchi back doing some cool Wolverine vs Sabretooth fights. The best things about Wolverine Evolution and Sabretooth Reborn (and one could argue that it's the only good thing) was his art. I have a good time re reading Evolution at least as a light writing, but Reborn's writing is just unbearable in every level



    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  10. #130
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    More small info on War of the Realms.
    Newsarama: Matthew, you’re currently writing the main Uncanny X-Men title, and now you’re taking the team into War of the Realms with this limited series focused on Sabretooth. What’s going on with the villain-turned-hero-turned maybe villain again here?

    Matthew Rosenberg: There's no maybe. Sabretooth is a villain again. His time trying to make right has come to an end. He went down a path and it didn't turn out better for himself so now he's back to doing what he does best. Being bad.

    Nrama: The solicitation for War of the Realms: Uncanny X-Men #2 mentions Sabretooth teaming up with Malekith’s forces. What can you tell us about that?

    Rosenberg: The events of War of the Realms feel like the end of the world in a lot of ways, or at least the world as we know it. And Sabretooth is nothing if not a survivor. So when he gets the chance to join the winning side he'll take it. He is throwing in with some very bad folks who are not his usual crowd, but he has a plan to get something for himself beyond just survival and he'll do whatever he needs to in order to get there.
    https://www.newsarama.com/44563-matt...interview.html

    From what very little we get, Creed sounds about as one-note as he's been the last 16 years as a villain. So I'm not getting a gripping vibe. But time & reviews will tell.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 04-01-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  11. #131
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    I swear I read that Hickman didn't care for the Hot Claws & wouldn't be using them. If not Hickman, I know I read that about someone.
    Yeah that wouldn't suprise me, it was such a dumb idea lol, with any luck Duggan is going to get rid of those things soon.

    Honestly, as much as Creed jobs, I am open to any useful power-up. Even if it's just giving him another strength enhancement. Your idea works too, but given it's Graydon & he'll probably still be a mutie hater, he may not wanna deal with Creed too much. So I figured he'd do a bare minimum payment.

    I swear though, if we ever get Creed meeting past victims again, I would LOVE to see him meet Birdy & his father again. There's a lot you can do with those. lol
    To be honest Creed should be already strong enough to take on a Wendigo between his superstrength and his adamantium but yeah it's like most writers forget about this nowadays. You know that's what I thought, no seeing Birdy and his father during this last Weapon X arc was disappointing. Also him seeing his mother again could be interesting, lot of untapped potential especially after the reveal Aaron did during his Wolverine's run.

    Given some things I have seen, nothing surprises me anymore. A controversial example. Look at Monet in the 90's vs. how she's mostly depicted since the 2000's.


    So ya see how Marvel is with consistency, and proper character depiction. No shock they let anything bad with Sabretooth hit the floor.
    Lmao this picture with those weird goggles always crack me up. But yeah that's really strange what happened to Monet's skin color, same thing happened with Melita (Logan's grilfriend during Aaron's run) and in my opinion it's really bad, annoying and disrespectful.

    I Mainly hate it because that run seemed to be iconic for some reason, and appears to be what most writers based Sabretooth's characterization off of. Instead of Tierri's.
    One note vilain is easier to write I guess, but yeah using Tieri's version would have been perfect. Also doesn't help that Sabretooth characterization in the movies or tv shows were far from perfect.

    Idk if there's truth to it. But tv tropes mentions Sabretooth being a base breaking character. He had fans who loved his ruthless evil. But some who were offended or put-off by it. So to make him less offensive & more acceptable, they started writing him as a complete joke / the opposite to how he was when his popularity peaked in the 90's.
    I don't know but to be honest something definetely happened post 2003, wouldn't be surprised if Loeb and Way really wanted him out of the pitcure at the time just to push Romulus or Daken as the new Wolverine vilains during their runs.

    Idk if it was Remender or Bendis. But someone wrote Mystique shooting Creed in the head when she got pissed off. And afterwards, Creed is still obediently taking orders from her. But it's been a min. since I could find what series that was.
    Maybe that was during that Sabretooth/Mystique mini during the 90s or when he was with X-Factor? I'm not sure.

    But THAT is the kind of thing right there that makes me hate Creed x Mystique. Given the latter is a more popular character, Creed will be used as an accessory to prop her up just like he is for Wolverine. Very few writers are gonna have them be equal.
    Mystique got a big boost thanks to the movies but yeah it really did Creed no favor that's for sure.

    Sadly I did a compilation of Creed's recent failures as a villain. Most of them I posted here. But check my post here on tumblr.
    http://fangirl-bakery.tumblr.com/pos...again-come-may
    If you have anymore scans of Jobbertooth that you think deserve to be posted, plea let me know.

    I show this, because that Viper thing was criminal & it was one of the examples. lol
    Damn poor Vic, that's tough lol. Maybe you can add this gem from Wolverine First Class 9:



    Even as a Wolverine's fan that was so dumb and painful to look at.


    Omega Red surely needs to be ignored. Prior to that series, he literally had NO humanity in him, and I think was hinted to be a child molester in one story. Even Sabretooth had moments of humanity in the 90's and 2000's that Omega Red never showed.

    I agree with you on chapter 18 where Creed outsmarts Omega Red. That'slike the old Creed from Tierri's run. Honestly, that was probably the best Creed was written in the entire book.
    True about Omega Red but honestly after what Creed did to both him and Lady Deathstrike during the Logan Files story, no way they would have agree to work with him again lol.

    One could only hope. For now, I have sworn to opt out of reading Creed. But if a solid fellow Creed fan were to give me a heads-up that he wasn't punk'd out in the story, then I could read it.

    I don't plan to read him in Uncanny War of Realms, but you seem to be on board for it. If it's good,please drop me a message to let me know it's safe. lol
    No problem lol, I will give it a try, because I missed a well written Sabretooth. Rosenberg is hit and miss so who knows maybe it's going to be fun, at least I hope so. If he has ulterior motives beyond helping Malekith that could be interesting.


    She hasn't shown up in AoX yet. Unknown if she'll get a cameo or not. Frenzy was there too, but hasn't popped up yet.
    A shame, they should have let them stay in the main universe I could have seen them joined Cyclops and Wolverine team.

    It all works out. Sabretooth needs a complete do-over. He's sucked as a villain for most of the last 16 years. There was that story where Wolverine lost his healing factor & Creed beat him into retirement, but it's just not as good when Creed can only defeat a powerless Wolverine. Plus the same writer did the following story with Sabretooth trying to create his own ideal world, and his showdow with Wolverine ended in a one-sided beatdown.
    Yeah that was Killable during the Cornell's run, I get that Creed wanted to break Logan but honesly the way it was done during the Tieri's run was much more impactful and true Sabretooth big plan was so dumb and the final fight with Wolverine was just bad. Want to know something funny? That issue with Creed defeating the powerless Wolverine was supposed to be a big fight and that was the reason Alan Davis (the artist at the time) stayed on the series and in the end it was just Sabretooth trying to talk Wolverine to death which really annoyed Davis.


    Those were terrible!!!!!!! Along with him lurking on twitter, having a dating profile, and texting with emojis. Sabretooth has gone from some occasional pop cultural references to a lame millennial.

    And the worst ones, imo were still his "Yo mama" joke to Warpath and "I Can Haz Cheeseburger." But I think issue 17 was the WORST chapter we had in terms of Creed's depiction. Following by his repeated ass-kicking by Hulk Cho.
    That cheeseburger quote and him sending emojis for Logan's birthday were dumb, it's like the inversion also affected Sabretooth's brain in the worst way possible lol. I agree that ass kicking by Cho was annoying.


    More often than not, he probably hasn't. But who knows. I listed some changes he made on earlier pages. Pak is pretty active on twitter and sometimes when fans complain enough about certain things he screwed up, it seemed like adjustments were made slightly.

    1. Creed getting beaten up by X-23. I know myself & another fan ranted back & forth about that on twitter. Their next fight, Pak did allow Creed to rip off half her face.
    2. Lumping Deathstrike in with mutants. Met with a lot of complaints, so he had her later announcing that she was a Cyborg.
    3. Numerous complaints about how dumb he made Sabretooth. After he becomes the leader, he's more unorthodox but effective, rather than a complete moron.
    etc. Just three small examples.

    So maybe he'll improve a bit more on any new projects with Creed. One can only hope. If the story ends up mattering.
    Yeah it never make any sense, honestly none of the "Wolverines" should stand a chance again him, between his superstrength, his healing factor, his experience, his adamantium skeleton and fingernails, he could cut all of them in half if he wanted, not just ripping off half of their faces lol. No suprise about Deathstrike or Creed characterization after he became leader, the X-Office under Paniccia was a mess unfortunately.

    Pak is currently doing a great job on Hulkverines, so who knows maybe he learned from his mistakes. I'm curious if Creed will appear during the Wolverine Exit Wound one shot, with both Claremont and Hama as writers that could be a good thing for Sabretooth!
    Last edited by Hush; 04-03-2019 at 02:44 PM.

  12. #132
    Mighty Member Hush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIGHT View Post
    I always wanted to see a fight scene where Sabretooth drives his claws up Wolverines guts and pulls out his heart and eats it.
    A similar scene happened during the Logan mini by Vaughan with Logan getting his heart ripped out and eaten in front of him by one villain from his past.



    With Creed the closest thing should be this scene from the Logan files story when he killed Logan:



    Or this scene from the horrible Loeb's run:



    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    It would be great to see Simone Bianchi back doing some cool Wolverine vs Sabretooth fights. The best things about Wolverine Evolution and Sabretooth Reborn (and one could argue that it's the only good thing) was his art. I have a good time re reading Evolution at least as a light writing, but Reborn's writing is just unbearable in every level

    [img]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/2294361-wolv2010310_cov.jpg[img]
    [img]https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2012/08/untitled-1-1344196030.jpg[img]
    [img]https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/253570660960_/WOLVERINE-VS-SABRETOOTH-ART-PRINT-By-SIMONE-BIANCHI.jpg[img]
    I agree the art by Bianchi was good in those runs but the story by Loeb was such a mess.

    It's funny because the guy retconned the nonsense from the first run but what he did in the second run was even worse lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    More small info on War of the Realms.

    https://www.newsarama.com/44563-matt...interview.html

    From what very little we get, Creed sounds about as one-note as he's been the last 16 years as a villain. So I'm not getting a gripping vibe. But time & reviews will tell.
    Well it seems he still has a plan of his own, so who knows I'm still optimist lol.
    Last edited by Hush; 04-03-2019 at 02:38 PM.

  13. #133
    Fantastic Member Mr Abductor's Avatar
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    Dani Moonstar, Wolfsbane, Magik, and Karma

    God this doesn't bode well for Creed, i'm definitely seeing a Wolfsbane V Creed one sided slaughter fest.

  14. #134
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Abductor View Post
    Dani Moonstar, Wolfsbane, Magik, and Karma

    God this doesn't bode well for Creed, i'm definitely seeing a Wolfsbane V Creed one sided slaughter fest.
    Agreed. So I can't help but roll my eyes at solicits trying to build up Sabretooth as a threat when he's been getting his ass kicked with minimal effort for 16 years. Lol

    "Will Creed get his bloody revenge?"

    Duh, of course not. Next. Lol

  15. #135
    Fantastic Member Mr Abductor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Agreed. So I can't help but roll my eyes at solicits trying to build up Sabretooth as a threat when he's been getting his ass kicked with minimal effort for 16 years. Lol

    "Will Creed get his bloody revenge?"

    Duh, of course not. Next. Lol
    Should've gotten a solo instead of this, hope what ever Claremont is doing with Creed and Logan sections off into a series for Sabretooth again.

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