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  1. #46
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Johns' Green Lantern run would be worse if he didn't have the Paralax stuff to work with. We would all be worse off if Kyle Rayner didn't exist. Like a story where a hero gets beaten down and has to rise up, comic book character with long histories can make tremendous gains by going through darker periods and then having them work their way back. If Spencer's run did not bring MJ back as the love interest (or didn't have to), it would still be successful. But because he has so many things to play with, he has more story to do, and the book is better. This is good for the contingent of fans who think stuff was "broken" and "needed fixing."
    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    that’s a take i haven’t heard before. i like it
    This is a great take. The bad makes the good that much better, which is remarkable and incredibly optimistic! Every story counts.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    People are seeing what they want to see and reading into things that are not there.
    And some people are denying what they're seeing in front of their own eyes. They are building towards something across all of the Spider-books.

  3. #48
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I don't see any connection between Mephisto appearing in Champions and the OMD storyline. This seems confined to the Champions book alone and not even crossing over with Miles's solo. I don't think Peter will appear or OMD will even be referenced, aside from Mephisto maybe making a snark comment. So no this has absolutely nothing to do with OMD, it's all a Champions story and will likely be Miles centric. And if/when marvel actually decides to do a OMD follow up I seriously doubt they will do it in a book that's not Peter's. People are seeing what they want to see and reading into things that are not there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    And some people are denying what they're seeing in front of their own eyes. They are building towards something across all of the Spider-books.
    "I see what I want to see." Mothman, Doomsday Clock #4
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  4. #49
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I don't see any connection between Mephisto appearing in Champions and the OMD storyline. This seems confined to the Champions book alone and not even crossing over with Miles's solo. I don't think Peter will appear or OMD will even be referenced, aside from Mephisto maybe making a snark comment. So no this has absolutely nothing to do with OMD, it's all a Champions story and will likely be Miles centric. And if/when marvel actually decides to do a OMD follow up I seriously doubt they will do it in a book that's not Peter's. People are seeing what they want to see and reading into things that are not there.
    I'm not saying that this will be an OMD followup, just saying that referencing the story keeps bringing it up in readers minds.

  5. #50
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    I think this is just a Miles story. I think most of the OMD damage is now undone and the Peter/MJ situation came to a full circle as during this 10 year they've been on and off and never fully moved on to other people. And now Spencer confirmid that they were in love all this time.

    And I think that eventually ( and now is closer than ever) is going to be the time again for a married Spider-Man again. Especially with Miles introduction for a wider audience and Spider in the MCU. That is preparing people to the ideia of a Peter Parker that eventually will grown and get married.

    So the marriege situation is easy to restart, no need to undo a story from 10 years ago. The only problem I think they should deal asap is that Marvel's heart and soul made a deal and let evil win. A storyline to fix this is really necessary.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon View Post
    The entire arc is called “Beat the Devil” Zub isn’t that kind of writer to just introduce something that huge then just not do anything with it?
    Should have clarified. In regards to OMD and Peter Parker it means nothing.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    And some people are denying what they're seeing in front of their own eyes. They are building towards something across all of the Spider-books.
    I somehow doubt this is planned.

    Edit: Whoops sorry double posted

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Should have clarified. In regards to OMD and Peter Parker it means nothing.
    To the readers, it means something more.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 01-04-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  9. #54
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    I don't have a strong opinion one way or another on Peter and MJ finding out about OMD and trying to do something about it - it could be a good story or a bad story, who knows? The ramifications of such a series could be anything from a nothing burger (they decide to stay unmarried but in each others lives even knowing they used to be married) to monumental (they're married and MJ is suddenly pregnant with every single alt-universe spider kid and the book becomes about them raising a litter of spider babies). Whatever, it'll be fine or it won't, we'll enjoy it or we won't.

    However, I don't think a Miles subplot in Champions is a strong indication that anything like that might or might not happen in ASM (or a VERY IMPORTANT spider mini series) in the near future (is Champions under the SM editorial office?). Miles' book solicits aren't indicating anything like that soon. FNSM's solicits the same. SM/Deadpool is doing some absurdist BIG EVENT mash up with a new villain. Gwen's in her own universe. ASM has a big Kraven story coming up (and the gossip on BleedingCool, taken with at least a grain or more of salt, is that Mephisto won't be around for a big fall event). Otto is doing his own thing. The hypothetical third part of OMD is not going to appear out of the ether fully formed to surprise us all. We'll see it coming from a mile away.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    IThe hypothetical third part of OMD is not going to appear out of the ether fully formed to surprise us all. We'll see it coming from a mile away.
    Like when Quesada confirmed he was thinking about it on twitter last year...and he's the one who requested Peter and MJ reunite in the books

  11. #56
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Like when Quesada confirmed he was thinking about it on twitter last year...and he's the one who requested Peter and MJ reunite in the books
    He didn't request it: he told Nick Spencer that they could be together. I don't see a request there.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Like when Quesada confirmed he was thinking about it on twitter last year...and he's the one who requested Peter and MJ reunite in the books
    I meant in terms of solicitations and/or comic shop inducements (incentive covers, etc. to make sure enough copies are in stores). Marvel isn't prone to having huge things happen in a book and then have fans pissed their shop doesn't have the book in stock. ASM's sales are fine, but if, hypothetically, ASM #20 is a secret part 1 of OMD3 with no notice, I'd imagine shops nationwide will be 40-70K copies short compared to demand.
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  13. #58
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    To the readers, it means something more.



    Then you're not being honest with yourself.

    Honestly, I will never fathom why some people are so hell bent on shooting down this kind of speculation unless they feel threatened by it somehow.



    "None are so blind as those who will not see"
    It seems we're at an impasse, Miles to Go. You see OMD and want it gone, I don't see OMD and want to move on. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. :P
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  14. #59
    Tyrant Sun User leokearon's Avatar
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    What's Mephisto's obession with Spiders? Better question why do they make deals with him, when they know he is a villain, and an analogue of the Devil
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  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    But it's one story against almost forty years of her character. Same with Spider-Man: if we damn his character and say it's tainted because of one bad story, we are kind of damning any future runs that are either good or stellar, including Zdarsky, Spencer, and even Slott (despite his faults).

    That just doesn't seem right to me, no matter how bad OMD was.
    As Erik Larsen (who didn't like the marriage) pointed out:

    "The biggest problem — in the future — would be that it would be hard to play some of these same notes again; that "Aunt May is too fragile to handle the truth about Peter being Spider-Man" or that "Peter needs to protect his secret identity in order to protect his loved ones" when we've seen both of those played out in print. In the latest issue -- out this week -- there's a bad guy who is on the trail of figuring out who Spider-Man is. How much suspense is there when, just two weeks ago, Spider-Man's identity being public knowledge was the status quo? After the marriage and the efforts made to undo it, why should we, as readers, believe any relationship he has in the future will ever lead to him getting married again? They're pretty much told the readers that Peter's life is never going to progress past a certain point."

    OMD isn't the illusion of change...it's the end of change. It means that Peter Parker is trapped forever in the Truman Show...only it's worse. Truman eventually got out, but Peter never will. So it's like the end of Terry Gilliam's Brazil, Peter is basically in some dream simulation of groundhog day-like loops and he can never get out. So it makes the entire story depressing no matter what the writers behind it do. 616 Continuity is tainted forever thanks to OMD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    The issue is that if they're married now, it locks the book into a certain type of story.
    Except that's a bold-faced lie. There are at very least 911 issues published overall in Spider-Man's 616 continuity showing Peter and MJ in a relationship, and 810 Issues, the vast majority shows them as a married couple. In terms of content, volume, material, and sales, the marriage did not lock the book into any particular kind of story. Again this is Post-Internet...Peter and Mary Jane are the greatest and best documented love story in the comics. There's way more stories showing them together than as a romance, far more so than Lois and Clark (who only got married and in relationship in the Post-Crisis era and that's far shorter than Peter and MJ). We already know that this relationship worked, that it doesn't stop Spider-Man from being Spider-Man and so on. Most Spider-Man and MJ content, in both 616 and AU is them being married and not unmarried.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Every story counts.
    Except the ones where Peter and MJ are married. Except that. The Post-OMIT lie that all the stories happened with them being single simply doesn't make sense. A marriage is an entirely different emotional commitment by its very nature. And JMD himself said Kraven's Last Hunt simply would not have the emotional impact it did without the marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by leokearon View Post
    What's Mephisto's obession with Spiders? Better question why do they make deals with him, when they know he is a villain, and an analogue of the Devil
    Exactly...Mephisto does not belong in any Spider-Man story. The only reason for him to be there Post-OMD is to remind everyone about OMD...so let's drop this faux-naive, his appearance in Miles' story has nothing to do with OMD or there's an actual story here
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 01-04-2019 at 10:43 AM. Reason: change

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