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  1. #1516
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    the idea of the wish-fulfilment hero really hasn't changed.
    No that wasn't what I was suggesting at all. Indeed most of Aaron has been standard wish-fulfilment fare on the surface and that was the main reason I liked it. Indeed much of modern Thor and most of the entire canon entirely lost contact with the wish-fulfilment idea of a mortal that turns into a god. I loved that Aaron brought it back for a while.

  2. #1517
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    The bar is pretty low for us at the moment, so it shouldn't be too difficult for a new writer to clear... but yeah, I think the new writer will carry on in Aaron's footsteps: a dim Thor that is less noble, smart and capable than the hero he was twenty or thirty years ago, and an Odin who acts more like a hillbilly patriarch from Justified than a millennia-old god of wisdom.
    You never know. The next writer could do for Thor what Nick Spencer ended up doing on Spider-Man.

  3. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You never know. The next writer could do for Thor what Nick Spencer ended up doing on Spider-Man.
    My fingers are crossed!

  4. #1519
    Fantastic Member Wall-Crawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You never know. The next writer could do for Thor what Nick Spencer ended up doing on Spider-Man.
    Hopefully, I really hope that's the case.

  5. #1520
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox_Nihil View Post
    You are also driven by nostalgia, my friend, despite your need to believe otherwise. You spend too much of your time on the Marvel boards, for Christ's sake! MARVEL! Not TKO or something manga-related or Lionforge or what have you.
    I spend quite a lot of time here but I mostly talk about my appreciation of the current books. I make no excuses for my love for very early Thor but I wasnít born at that point so itís not really nostalgic. Maybe it is because I have reread a lot of my old favourites on Marvel Unlimited that I can honestly say I prefer modern comics. I have never been a collector so I happily threw out most of my old comics after I had finished with them. One of my favourite comics of all time is Wicdiv but my soft spot for superheroes, aside from Thor and X-Men is mostly from the last two decades not the ones I read years ago and it turns out some things I loved when I was 14-20 were just not very good on reflection. We are all a little nostalgic but I am probably the least nostalgic person I know.

  6. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Well you bring up a very notable point by comparing other appreciation threads. Many of them are indeed the same. Surely that tells us more about comic book appreciation and the threads themselves than anything to do with the books. The past is the best indication of the future, and appreciation threads have been full of people that are not appreciating the current books for as long as they have existed.

    Donít you think it is telling that you compare to twenty or thirty years ago? Isnít that itself self referencing the fact that many people in these threads are driven by nostalgia and not by the reality of modern comics, modern storytelling and the market they exist in?
    It's crazy how much the appreciation threads are really anti-appreciation threads. It's to the point where someone who likes the current books is called out for it (as you well know). This is the case in many threads on many platforms. It's a weird thing where spending time talking about something you like and enjoy is looked down on, but bashing something you don't like and haven't liked for years and/or aren't reading is a more noble pursuit because... I don't know why, actually. It's really interesting how cyclical it is also, the current stuff is hated so much until some point in the future where it gradually becomes not that bad, then underappreciated, then it's old enough for people to be nostalgic about, at which point it becomes untouchable.

    I think many posters are just disconnected from the modern comics marketplace. They just aren't aware of or knowledgeable about the recent and current climate. That's the only reason I can come up with (besides cynical ones) for drawing conclusions from sales data that spans years or sometimes decades without taking the era into account.

  7. #1522
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    It's crazy how much the appreciation threads are really anti-appreciation threads. It's to the point where someone who likes the current books is called out for it (as you well know). This is the case in many threads on many platforms. It's a weird thing where spending time talking about something you like and enjoy is looked down on, but bashing something you don't like and haven't liked for years and/or aren't reading is a more noble pursuit because... I don't know why, actually. It's really interesting how cyclical it is also, the current stuff is hated so much until some point in the future where it gradually becomes not that bad, then underappreciated, then it's old enough for people to be nostalgic about, at which point it becomes untouchable.

    I think many posters are just disconnected from the modern comics marketplace. They just aren't aware of or knowledgeable about the recent and current climate. That's the only reason I can come up with (besides cynical ones) for drawing conclusions from sales data that spans years or sometimes decades without taking the era into account.
    I mean, personally, I've never really talked much about sales when it comes to my issues with the book.

    I just see a character I really love and enjoy not be depicted as well as I would like or in-line with how he was when I fell in love with him and I just feel like expressing that in a thread focused on him.

  8. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, personally, I've never really talked much about sales when it comes to my issues with the book.

    I just see a character I really love and enjoy not be depicted as well as I would like or in-line with how he was when I fell in love with him and I just feel like expressing that in a thread focused on him.
    I hear ya... And that's totally cool of course. I should have mentioned again towards the end that I was talking about lots of places, not just here or here or that it happens to a huge amount here, just to be clear.
    I'm getting to the point of complaining about complainers and letting negativity get to me... a sure sign it's time to take a hiatus from the boards for a while.

    I guess I'm different in that I don't care as much about how the character is depicted as much as I just want a good story (obviously you want good stories too). Often on the boards I see people basing their whole opinion on a story on whether a character matched their ideal version of the character. Nothing mentioned about plot or the action or other characters, just "Did Character X look good and were their punches strong enough to beat Character Z". I never use terms like character assassination or hit job or things like that, I just see characters facing obstacles. If characters were always in line with how they were in the past I would be bored and hungry for some growth and development. A character arc that is always facing up isn't an arc at all imo. Just two different ways to consume stories and I'm not saying either one is right or wrong, just that I can't understand one of them.

  9. #1524
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I hear ya... And that's totally cool of course. I should have mentioned again towards the end that I was talking about lots of places, not just here or here or that it happens to a huge amount here, just to be clear.
    I'm getting to the point of complaining about complainers and letting negativity get to me... a sure sign it's time to take a hiatus from the boards for a while.

    I guess I'm different in that I don't care as much about how the character is depicted as much as I just want a good story (obviously you want good stories too). Often on the boards I see people basing their whole opinion on a story on whether a character matched their ideal version of the character. Nothing mentioned about plot or the action or other characters, just "Did Character X look good and were their punches strong enough to beat Character Z". I never use terms like character assassination or hit job or things like that, I just see characters facing obstacles. If characters were always in line with how they were in the past I would be bored and hungry for some growth and development. A character arc that is always facing up isn't an arc at all imo. Just two different ways to consume stories and I'm not saying either one is right or wrong, just that I can't understand one of them.
    For me, beyond the technical craft, my enjoyment and regard for the good story is dependent on probably the characters and the regard for them therein.

    I'm not going to enjoy a story with a character, no matter how it's written, if I feel they're not being depicted well or true to their character. So if it's not a character arc I can believe in it's not one I care to read.

    I'm fine with characters facing obstacles or hurdles if I feel they are still in-character while facing them and there seems to be a genuine, salient, point to these hurdles. But if there isn't I don't care for them.

  10. #1525
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    ....

    I dont see anything wrong with showy displays of power from the character Thor. I mean how is it wrong for a reader to insist that "Thor looks good when punching out character A and B?" I say, "its distracting when I see Marvels original 'answer to Superman' get his arm bitten off by a whale. How dumb is that? Power and vast superhuman strength are one of the reasons many Thor fans became Thor fans in the first place.

    And why cant Thor be shown kicking ass and great stories be part of the whole shebang? Put another way: does modern comic story telling (for Thor specifically) mean his story should be complex but bereft of the very ingredients that make him the God of Thunder? Jeez, if you want complex writing read Hemingway and Proust.
    Last edited by Cronus; 06-17-2019 at 10:30 PM.
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  11. #1526
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I'm fine with characters facing obstacles or hurdles if I feel they are still in-character while facing them and there seems to be a genuine, salient, point to these hurdles. But if there isn't I don't care for them.
    I agree.

    For me, the characters acting within their known personality is an essential part of good writing. If you have a good story that requires a bumbling detective...write it featuring Inspector Closeau, not Batman.

  12. #1527
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    ....

    I dont see anything wrong with showy displays of power from the character Thor. I mean how is it wrong for a reader to insist that "Thor looks good when punching out character A and B?" I say, "its distracting when I see Marvels original 'answer to Superman' get his arm bitten off by a whale. How dumb is that? Power and vast superhuman strength are one of the reasons many Thor fans became Thor fans in the first place.

    And why cant Thor be shown kicking ass and great stories be part of the whole shebang? Put another way: does modern comic story telling (for Thor specifically) mean his story should be complex but bereft of the very ingredients that make him the God of Thunder? Jeez, if you want complex writing read Hemingway and Proust.
    You seem to be suggesting Thor isn't capable of kicking butt. I have seen no evidence to suggest this over that last few years.

  13. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    You seem to be suggesting Thor isn't capable of kicking butt. I have seen no evidence to suggest this over that last few years.
    *cough*AvX*cough*

  14. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    You seem to be suggesting Thor isn't capable of kicking butt. I have seen no evidence to suggest this over that last few years.
    I can't think of a really good solo win in the last few years on panel, though I admit I'm out of touch with his exploits over the last few months

  15. #1530
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    You seem to be suggesting Thor isn't capable of kicking butt. I have seen no evidence to suggest this over that last few years.
    I assume you're counting Jane, right?

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