honestly I don't think it's coincidence that Aaron chose Jane to be so wanked to high Heavens to the point where he destroyed everything related to Thor because MCU failed hard with Jane.
honestly I don't think it's coincidence that Aaron chose Jane to be so wanked to high Heavens to the point where he destroyed everything related to Thor because MCU failed hard with Jane.
Or, more likely, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Aaron had a story he wanted to pursue and did, regardless of outside influences. The fact that readership responded so positively allowed him to double down and follow his ideas through.
It's even more ridiculous to suggest that anything in Aaron's run has anything to do with how the "MCU failed hard with Jane." How did they fail? She was a supporting character in the first two Thor's and was - from all evidence - not intended to be anything more. Developing Jane as anything more than a love interest did not seem to be a part of Marvel's agenda. And as the saga of the MCU Thor went on, there wasn't much room to keep even that going.
Where do fans even come up with these theories? More importantly, why? Why go through the mental gymnastics to come up with a preposterous theory to "explain" something that's as easy as "the writer had a story they wanted to tell?"
Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”
Last edited by GodThor; 04-19-2019 at 02:32 PM.
That’s nice. I should thank him for turning a character I quite like into a pompous misogynist ass I don’t enjoy. But thanks for pointing out how if I don’t like done ones writing it’s actuslly my fault.
No, you’re wrong, and I’m going to explain to everyone who might read this why.You were describing a Mary Sue, even if you were not using the name. You were claiming Jane’s only flaw was ‘too heroic’. That’s one of the standard definitions of this overused form of criticism.
The problem with the Mary Sue criticism was best summed up by Camille Bacon-Smith, who pointed out that the paranoia of characters being labelled a Mary Sue was effectively stifling creativity. It so often gets directed at female characters and the definition has drifted to the point of restricting writers.
I would go further and say the overuse of the label has until recently made it nearly impossible to write a powerful female superhero that wasn’t labelled a Mary Sue, precisely because the genre is one of wish fulfilment. They all had to somehow be damaged or flawed, or have undergone some deep seated trauma. Not actually reflective of normal women.
Write a male wish fulfilment character and nobody bats an eyelid. Write a female wish fulfilment character and you get jumped on by armchair critics.
Jane makes mistakes, but mistakes are not character flaws. The problem with you using the term Mary Sue here is that it is designed to shut down all possible debate on the grounds that it is based on an unreasonable sexist agenda.
If Jane were written as she was and Thor and Odin shown less like drunks and failures, there wouldn’t be as many complaints.
But guys, if you don’t like the way either or both of these characters were shown for the time Jane had the hammer, that does not necessarily mean you are are insecure closet sexist JM would imply. It might ACTUALLY be that you just didn’t think they were written well.
The irony here is that while I’m complaining about how Odin is a misogynist ass I’m actually being passive aggressive accused of furthering a misogynist agenda. I’m glad I found my my issues now before I took my daughter to see Captain Marvel on Sunday, JUST so she can see a powerful female hero on screen while we both wait for the next Wonder Woman movie. How dare I.
So thanks for that armchair criticism. We should get matching recliners LOL
Last edited by brettc1; 04-19-2019 at 02:40 PM.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
I mean, when the character is touted as the female lead of the franchise and one of the main driving forces for your protagonist and gets written out without any fanfare by the third movie...kind of tells me somebody dropped the ball somewhere.
I'm not expecting it, if only because I don't think the MCU is going to go down doing to do replacement stories so soon.
Feige has expressed how much he sees the current stars as embodying those characters and identities so he might focus on more original concepts and ideas instead of trying to do a series of succession stories.
Like, look at Captain America. People kept wondering whether we'd see Sam or Bucky take up the shield but they're now getting their own Disney+ show in their typical identities.
Maybe way down the line we might see those legacy heroes but I don't think it will be immediately.
I also am not expecting a return by Natalie Portman anytime soon either.
Back on topic, I am looking forward to Thor FINALLY smashing every bone in Malekiths body witb Mjolnir, and leaving him to suffer in miserable wretchedness for the million years it takes him to die.
Or better yet chaining him in a life sized Barbie doll house where quantum visions of everyone he's ever made suffer play out happy ever after Infront of his skinned eyeballs.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
I wouldn't say anyone "touted" her as the female lead of the franchise. She was there. Maybe under different circumstances, things could have worked out better for the character but past the first movie there didn't seem to be a great need, narratively speaking, to include her. If anything, the fact that one of Dark World's problems was that the character felt shoehorned into it likely led to Jane being phased out.
In short, Jane Foster worked fine in the first movie. Worked less well in the second and wasn't missed at all by the third.
And seeing as the third Thor movie is generally regarded as by far the best Thor movie and one of the better MCU entries overall I would say, no, no one dropped the ball on that.
I mean, I feel like that's really underselling how her role or importance in the franchise was originally set in the initial movies. She was said to be one of the main reasons Thor even cared about Earth to begin with. If she wasn't the female lead they sure didn't do a good job of underselling it 2/3 into the trilogy.
Considering how much they had to drop or outright destroy of the Thor mythos in Ragnarok for a very widely different take on the franchise...I think they didn't do as good a job of presenting the material or mythos on the silver screen. So they didn't drop the ball on that specific film but with Thor overall.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor