Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

Thor is like a drug addict with hammers.

It's like when a son is asking his father or mother to give him a loan so that he can sate his insatiable addiction for drugs.

In this case, hammers.

Very sad.

Is that how the "Odinson" persona was created? Hammer withdrawal?

Is that what all the mead is supposed to compensate for ?

Well, his being a horn dog with Gaea has been around for a while. And he did ignore Baldur and Tyre and Sif was introduced into comics because Odin was trying to get Thor away from Jane. And he did tell Loki repeatedly that he was his less favored son. Repeatedly.

But was it in the context of him being a horn dog? I think that's part of my issue.

I don't know if he ignored Balder. He treated him as one of his most loyal and important vassals. I don't think we've even seen them interact since the reveal that Balder was his kid came out.

By the time Odin treats Loki as his second-favorite, it's pretty much because Loki is at a point where he's kind of earned that status.

[GodThor]

The vibe I'm getting from Thor in the Endgame trailers, it doesn't look like he will be joking. He seems dark, focused and depressed but pushing on in anger and self hate.

yeah, I think everything will be dark.

we will see if he survives.

Is that how the "Odinson" persona was created? Hammer withdrawal?

Is that what all the mead is supposed to compensate for ?

yep.

[Snoop Dogg]

The vibe I'm getting from Thor in the Endgame trailers, it doesn't look like he will be joking. He seems dark, focused and depressed but pushing on in anger and self hate.

He also looks like he's about to bring the house down in a battle rap.

[juan678]

[GodThor]

I hope Sif leads the team.

she is, after all, Goddess of War.

[Rosebunse]

Is that how the "Odinson" persona was created? Hammer withdrawal?

Is that what all the mead is supposed to compensate for ?

But was it in the context of him being a horn dog? I think that's part of my issue.

I don't know if he ignored Balder. He treated him as one of his most loyal and important vassals. I don't think we've even seen them interact since the reveal that Balder was his kid came out.

By the time Odin treats Loki as his second-favorite, it's pretty much because Loki is at a point where he's kind of earned that status.

He still ignored Baldur as a son, though I do wish we'd see more of Baldur's reaction to that.

And even if Loki deserved to be called that, you can still see how that might make someone go crazy.

My point still stands, Aaron is just building off of what other writers have already given him.

Plus, let's all admit it, Odin is probably going to be redeemed by the end of this by doing something really cool.

[Wall-Crawler]

my homie odin "sealed away an entire species as punishment and by the time i freed them i created the eternal punishment of the gods from their rage and also i can't stop exiling and punishing my kids and also humans are worthless ants pass the mead" borson

Literally everything you mentioned, Aaron wrote it.

[Panic]

Yes, Jason Aaron's depiction of Odin is not totally without precedent. Thor is a long-running comic book, and we've seen several different depictions of Odin over time, some popular, some not so much. We've seen some great stories involving Odin, we've seen some bad stories, we've seen a whole bunch of stories that don't make a lot of sense as they conflict with previous stories and later stories.

So my question is not "does this depiction of Odin have any basis in any previous Thor stories?", because at this point you can find all sorts of behaviour in most long-running characters - Captain America, for example, supposedly the poster-boy for goodness and morality for the MU, happily sent Carol Danvers off with the man who mind-controlled her into having sex with him and hijacked her vagina to use as a get-out-of-limbo-free card; no Cap fan actually wants to dip into that well for future depictions of Cap, though it would arguably make Steve Rogers a more complex, more human character, because it would lessen readers' respect for the character and his status, in universe and out, and more importantly, it would add a layer of feel-bad and shame to a character who is supposed to be an empowering hero. Cap's fans would be up in arms; the readers who find Cap too perfect to be a believable character, on the other hand, would probably praise the dirtying-up of the character, especially as it would make room for other heroes to take centre-stage. But do you really want to change a character to appeal to readers who aren't fans at the expense of those that are?

And this is the thing: I think a lot of support for Aaron's Thor run is coming from readers who are not primarily Thor Odinson fans, and not fans of Odin at all. Many of the people praising Aaron's run have been brought in by Jane as Thor, and are primarily Jane's fans, not Thor's; Jane fulfils the role of wish-fulfilment hero, the powerful, smart, heroic character that acts as a stand-in for the reader, holding viewpoints that the reader empathises with, doing the things the reader would like to do, i.e. beating up the bad guy; they're quite happy to see Thor written as stupider, less competent, less sympathetic, because it helps give Jane-as-Thor a place and relevance she would not have if Thor Odinson was written as what I will call "Classic Thor" - smart, resourceful, sympathetic, and, yes... classy.

And "classy" is what is missing from Aaron's depictions of Thor and Odin. It's not the only thing, but it is one of the most glaring things. Aaron has given us a redneck Thor and Odin: moonshine swillin', backward thinkin', no book-learnin', hillbilly horndogs. Look down on them, kids, they're not as sophisticated as you or I, but they are quite funny. Hel, I wouldn't be surprised if Odin's legendary sacrifice of his eye and his hanging nine nights on the world-tree were reinterpreted as drunken accidents.

My question is "does this depiction of Odin give us a character that works for the position he fills, i.e. Asgard's God of Wisdom, ruler of the gods, and the man Thor has pledged his allegiance to?" I don't think he does. What I've seen of Aaron's Odin is a character is is not smart or sophisticated, and therefore when he does awful things there doesn't appear to be any real complexity at work, just stupidity. And stupid characters are not interesting. Same goes for Thor. Don't give the audience a hero that is stupider than they are, it's annoying. The classic green Hulk was supposedly stupid, but in his own book he actually was deceptively smart despite his limited diction, and since Marvel gave him Banner-level intelligence he hasn't revered back. Hulk fans don't want the character to backslide, it's devolution not evolution. Those of us who are Thor Odinson fans similarly don't want Thor stupider and less capable than when we became fans, and that is what we have been complaining about for years. It's a bad direction, and it's one that Marvel has been pushing Thor and Odin in since before Aaron came onto the scene. If you are going to give Odin a dark side, at least write him with Magneto-like complexity and depth - he's the God of Wisdom, for pete's sake.

And yes, new fans are no less important than old, but this is the Thor Odinson Appreciation Thread, we're just like most of the other appreciation threads - we don't like our hero being short-changed or pushed in an unflattering direction. Yes, Aaron's run has been a quality run in that it has had great art and emotionally involving storylines, but what it generally hasn't done is exactly what is going to matter to Thor Odinson's fans most - it hasn't done the character justice, and it hasn't pushed him in a good direction. We've seen his credibility plummet and his character devolve, and Odin, whom he is tied to, has been similarly mistreated. As I said before, I feel a lot of the support for Aaron's run is coming from people who like Jane and Loki more than Thor, and while that is a perfectly valid viewpoint in other threads, in the Thor Odinson appreciation thread it's going to meet with opposition, imo.

[Rosebunse]

I am just not sure a story needs to be "classy" to be good.

[Frontier]

Yes, Jason Aaron's depiction of Odin is not totally without precedent. Thor is a long-running comic book, and we've seen several different depictions of Odin over time, some popular, some not so much. We've seen some great stories involving Odin, we've seen some bad stories, we've seen a whole bunch of stories that don't make a lot of sense as they conflict with previous stories and later stories.

So my question is not "does this depiction of Odin have any basis in any previous Thor stories?", because at this point you can find all sorts of behaviour in most long-running characters - Captain America, for example, supposedly the poster-boy for goodness and morality for the MU, happily sent Carol Danvers off with the man who mind-controlled her into having sex with him and hijacked her vagina to use as a get-out-of-limbo-free card; no Cap fan actually wants to dip into that well for future depictions of Cap, though it would arguably make Steve Rogers a more complex, more human character, because it would lessen readers' respect for the character and his status, in universe and out, and more importantly, it would add a layer of feel-bad and shame to a character who is supposed to be an empowering hero. Cap's fans would be up in arms; the readers who find Cap too perfect to be a believable character, on the other hand, would probably praise the dirtying-up of the character, especially as it would make room for other heroes to take centre-stage. But do you really want to change a character to appeal to readers who aren't fans at the expense of those that are?

And this is the thing: I think a lot of support for Aaron's Thor run is coming from readers who are not primarily Thor Odinson fans, and not fans of Odin at all. Many of the people praising Aaron's run have been brought in by Jane as Thor, and are primarily Jane's fans, not Thor's; Jane fulfils the role of wish-fulfilment hero, the powerful, smart, heroic character that acts as a stand-in for the reader, holding viewpoints that the reader empathises with, doing the things the reader would like to do, i.e. beating up the bad guy; they're quite happy to see Thor written as stupider, less competent, less sympathetic, because it helps give Jane-as-Thor a place and relevance she would not have if Thor Odinson was written as what I will call "Classic Thor" - smart, resourceful, sympathetic, and, yes... classy.

And "classy" is what is missing from Aaron's depictions of Thor and Odin. It's not the only thing, but it is one of the most glaring things. Aaron has given us a redneck Thor and Odin: moonshine swillin', backward thinkin', no book-learnin', hillbilly horndogs. Look down on them, kids, they're not as sophisticated as you or I, but they are quite funny. Hel, I wouldn't be surprised if Odin's legendary sacrifice of his eye and his hanging nine nights on the world-tree were reinterpreted as drunken accidents.

My question is "does this depiction of Odin give us a character that works for the position he fills, i.e. Asgard's God of Wisdom, ruler of the gods, and the man Thor has pledged his allegiance to?" I don't think he does. What I've seen of Aaron's Odin is a character is is not smart or sophisticated, and therefore when he does awful things there doesn't appear to be any real complexity at work, just stupidity. And stupid characters are not interesting. Same goes for Thor. Don't give the audience a hero that is stupider than they are, it's annoying. The classic green Hulk was supposedly stupid, but in his own book he actually was deceptively smart despite his limited diction, and since Marvel gave him Banner-level intelligence he hasn't revered back. Hulk fans don't want the character to backslide, it's devolution not evolution. Those of us who are Thor Odinson fans similarly don't want Thor stupider and less capable than when we became fans, and that is what we have been complaining about for years. It's a bad direction, and it's one that Marvel has been pushing Thor and Odin in since before Aaron came onto the scene. If you are going to give Odin a dark side, at least write him with Magneto-like complexity and depth - he's the God of Wisdom, for pete's sake.

And yes, new fans are no less important than old, but this is the Thor Odinson Appreciation Thread, we're just like most of the other appreciation threads - we don't like our hero being short-changed or pushed in an unflattering direction. Yes, Aaron's run has been a quality run in that it has had great art and emotionally involving storylines, but what it generally hasn't done is exactly what is going to matter to Thor Odinson's fans most - it hasn't done the character justice, and it hasn't pushed him in a good direction. We've seen his credibility plummet and his character devolve, and Odin, whom he is tied to, has been similarly mistreated. As I said before, I feel a lot of the support for Aaron's run is coming from people who like Jane and Loki more than Thor, and while that is a perfectly valid viewpoint in other threads, in the Thor Odinson appreciation thread it's going to meet with opposition, imo.

This pretty effectively states all my issues with Aaron's run as a Thor fan.

I am just not sure a story needs to be "classy" to be good.

Maybe not, but I think with certain characters and their standing, classiness is preferable to the alternative.

[Wall-Crawler]

Yes, Jason Aaron's depiction of Odin is not totally without precedent. Thor is a long-running comic book, and we've seen several different depictions of Odin over time, some popular, some not so much. We've seen some great stories involving Odin, we've seen some bad stories, we've seen a whole bunch of stories that don't make a lot of sense as they conflict with previous stories and later stories.

So my question is not "does this depiction of Odin have any basis in any previous Thor stories?", because at this point you can find all sorts of behaviour in most long-running characters - Captain America, for example, supposedly the poster-boy for goodness and morality for the MU, happily sent Carol Danvers off with the man who mind-controlled her into having sex with him and hijacked her vagina to use as a get-out-of-limbo-free card; no Cap fan actually wants to dip into that well for future depictions of Cap, though it would arguably make Steve Rogers a more complex, more human character, because it would lessen readers' respect for the character and his status, in universe and out, and more importantly, it would add a layer of feel-bad and shame to a character who is supposed to be an empowering hero. Cap's fans would be up in arms; the readers who find Cap too perfect to be a believable character, on the other hand, would probably praise the dirtying-up of the character, especially as it would make room for other heroes to take centre-stage. But do you really want to change a character to appeal to readers who aren't fans at the expense of those that are?

And this is the thing: I think a lot of support for Aaron's Thor run is coming from readers who are not primarily Thor Odinson fans, and not fans of Odin at all. Many of the people praising Aaron's run have been brought in by Jane as Thor, and are primarily Jane's fans, not Thor's; Jane fulfils the role of wish-fulfilment hero, the powerful, smart, heroic character that acts as a stand-in for the reader, holding viewpoints that the reader empathises with, doing the things the reader would like to do, i.e. beating up the bad guy; they're quite happy to see Thor written as stupider, less competent, less sympathetic, because it helps give Jane-as-Thor a place and relevance she would not have if Thor Odinson was written as what I will call "Classic Thor" - smart, resourceful, sympathetic, and, yes... classy.

And "classy" is what is missing from Aaron's depictions of Thor and Odin. It's not the only thing, but it is one of the most glaring things. Aaron has given us a redneck Thor and Odin: moonshine swillin', backward thinkin', no book-learnin', hillbilly horndogs. Look down on them, kids, they're not as sophisticated as you or I, but they are quite funny. Hel, I wouldn't be surprised if Odin's legendary sacrifice of his eye and his hanging nine nights on the world-tree were reinterpreted as drunken accidents.

My question is "does this depiction of Odin give us a character that works for the position he fills, i.e. Asgard's God of Wisdom, ruler of the gods, and the man Thor has pledged his allegiance to?" I don't think he does. What I've seen of Aaron's Odin is a character is is not smart or sophisticated, and therefore when he does awful things there doesn't appear to be any real complexity at work, just stupidity. And stupid characters are not interesting. Same goes for Thor. Don't give the audience a hero that is stupider than they are, it's annoying. The classic green Hulk was supposedly stupid, but in his own book he actually was deceptively smart despite his limited diction, and since Marvel gave him Banner-level intelligence he hasn't revered back. Hulk fans don't want the character to backslide, it's devolution not evolution. Those of us who are Thor Odinson fans similarly don't want Thor stupider and less capable than when we became fans, and that is what we have been complaining about for years. It's a bad direction, and it's one that Marvel has been pushing Thor and Odin in since before Aaron came onto the scene. If you are going to give Odin a dark side, at least write him with Magneto-like complexity and depth - he's the God of Wisdom, for pete's sake.

And yes, new fans are no less important than old, but this is the Thor Odinson Appreciation Thread, we're just like most of the other appreciation threads - we don't like our hero being short-changed or pushed in an unflattering direction. Yes, Aaron's run has been a quality run in that it has had great art and emotionally involving storylines, but what it generally hasn't done is exactly what is going to matter to Thor Odinson's fans most - it hasn't done the character justice, and it hasn't pushed him in a good direction. We've seen his credibility plummet and his character devolve, and Odin, whom he is tied to, has been similarly mistreated. As I said before, I feel a lot of the support for Aaron's run is coming from people who like Jane and Loki more than Thor, and while that is a perfectly valid viewpoint in other threads, in the Thor Odinson appreciation thread it's going to meet with opposition, imo.

You deserve a freaking medal, excellent post.

[charliehustle415]

Yes, Jason Aaron's depiction of Odin is not totally without precedent. Thor is a long-running comic book, and we've seen several different depictions of Odin over time, some popular, some not so much. We've seen some great stories involving Odin, we've seen some bad stories, we've seen a whole bunch of stories that don't make a lot of sense as they conflict with previous stories and later stories.

So my question is not "does this depiction of Odin have any basis in any previous Thor stories?", because at this point you can find all sorts of behaviour in most long-running characters - Captain America, for example, supposedly the poster-boy for goodness and morality for the MU, happily sent Carol Danvers off with the man who mind-controlled her into having sex with him and hijacked her vagina to use as a get-out-of-limbo-free card; no Cap fan actually wants to dip into that well for future depictions of Cap, though it would arguably make Steve Rogers a more complex, more human character, because it would lessen readers' respect for the character and his status, in universe and out, and more importantly, it would add a layer of feel-bad and shame to a character who is supposed to be an empowering hero. Cap's fans would be up in arms; the readers who find Cap too perfect to be a believable character, on the other hand, would probably praise the dirtying-up of the character, especially as it would make room for other heroes to take centre-stage. But do you really want to change a character to appeal to readers who aren't fans at the expense of those that are?

And this is the thing: I think a lot of support for Aaron's Thor run is coming from readers who are not primarily Thor Odinson fans, and not fans of Odin at all. Many of the people praising Aaron's run have been brought in by Jane as Thor, and are primarily Jane's fans, not Thor's; Jane fulfils the role of wish-fulfilment hero, the powerful, smart, heroic character that acts as a stand-in for the reader, holding viewpoints that the reader empathises with, doing the things the reader would like to do, i.e. beating up the bad guy; they're quite happy to see Thor written as stupider, less competent, less sympathetic, because it helps give Jane-as-Thor a place and relevance she would not have if Thor Odinson was written as what I will call "Classic Thor" - smart, resourceful, sympathetic, and, yes... classy.

And "classy" is what is missing from Aaron's depictions of Thor and Odin. It's not the only thing, but it is one of the most glaring things. Aaron has given us a redneck Thor and Odin: moonshine swillin', backward thinkin', no book-learnin', hillbilly horndogs. Look down on them, kids, they're not as sophisticated as you or I, but they are quite funny. Hel, I wouldn't be surprised if Odin's legendary sacrifice of his eye and his hanging nine nights on the world-tree were reinterpreted as drunken accidents.

My question is "does this depiction of Odin give us a character that works for the position he fills, i.e. Asgard's God of Wisdom, ruler of the gods, and the man Thor has pledged his allegiance to?" I don't think he does. What I've seen of Aaron's Odin is a character is is not smart or sophisticated, and therefore when he does awful things there doesn't appear to be any real complexity at work, just stupidity. And stupid characters are not interesting. Same goes for Thor. Don't give the audience a hero that is stupider than they are, it's annoying. The classic green Hulk was supposedly stupid, but in his own book he actually was deceptively smart despite his limited diction, and since Marvel gave him Banner-level intelligence he hasn't revered back. Hulk fans don't want the character to backslide, it's devolution not evolution. Those of us who are Thor Odinson fans similarly don't want Thor stupider and less capable than when we became fans, and that is what we have been complaining about for years. It's a bad direction, and it's one that Marvel has been pushing Thor and Odin in since before Aaron came onto the scene. If you are going to give Odin a dark side, at least write him with Magneto-like complexity and depth - he's the God of Wisdom, for pete's sake.

And yes, new fans are no less important than old, but this is the Thor Odinson Appreciation Thread, we're just like most of the other appreciation threads - we don't like our hero being short-changed or pushed in an unflattering direction. Yes, Aaron's run has been a quality run in that it has had great art and emotionally involving storylines, but what it generally hasn't done is exactly what is going to matter to Thor Odinson's fans most - it hasn't done the character justice, and it hasn't pushed him in a good direction. We've seen his credibility plummet and his character devolve, and Odin, whom he is tied to, has been similarly mistreated. As I said before, I feel a lot of the support for Aaron's run is coming from people who like Jane and Loki more than Thor, and while that is a perfectly valid viewpoint in other threads, in the Thor Odinson appreciation thread it's going to meet with opposition, imo.

How is having your favorite hero knocked down so he can heroically rise up not being a fan? If you want self flagellation then simply read your favorite stories that shows Thor "winning". To simply say fans of Aaron only love Jane is not only ridiculous but logically wanting.

Moreover, your definition of "classy" is beyond the pail and it basically reads as "Aaron made Thor into a Trump voter!" Next you're gonna tell me Odin is actually a Men's Rights Activist and the "classy" thing to do is put the male heroes where they belong.

But, what do I know? According to you I guess I'm not a Thor (be it Odinson or Jane) fan

[juan678]

War of Realms cover variant

[Frontier]

How is having your favorite hero knocked down so he can heroically rise up not being a fan? If you want self flagellation then simply read your favorite stories that shows Thor "winning". To simply say fans of Aaron only love Jane is not only ridiculous but logically wanting.

But are we really seeing him rise up again? I feel like the Unworthy storyline would've been more about that if it wasn't just a mini and Jane's Thor story didn't completely take over the narrative.

And that's even assuming you find Thor's fall from grace and losing his own name to be believable to begin with.

Moreover, your definition of "classy" is beyond the pail and it basically reads as "Aaron made Thor into a Trump voter!" Next you're gonna tell me Odin is actually a Men's Rights Activist and the "classy" thing to do is put the male heroes where they belong.

That doesn't seem too far off from Aaron's Odin .

War of Realms cover variant

This reminds me how much better Thor looks without the gold arm or hammer.

[GodThor]

War of Realms cover variant

I want people to look at this picture and remember it.

you won't see him like this anymore.