Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[Frontier]

I think we'll get him completely back to his old self by the end of Aaron's run. Besides that just being the way of comics, I think it was always the plan for Odinson to go through a prolonged down period followed by his reclaiming his worthiness but defining it in a different way. If you're not into the story in general or his depiction of a laid-low Thor in particular, I sympathize, because it's been a long second act. Knowing the third act is coming might not help much if you really don't like the second act.

I would have confidence in that if only I believed that was how Aaron still visualized Thor as a character, and I honestly don't at this point.

Other then when it's Jane I don't think that's how he sees Thor anymore.

The Jane thing is another thing I do understand but don't agree with. I think it's pretty standard to put over a new character pretty strong. Not too often do we see "New version! Not quite as good as the old"! It's always "New and improved"! But even that is me really simplifying things... Jane had advantages in the very areas Odinson was struggling with, so they seem more pronounced. In those cases Jane had an insight and position that Odinson didn't have, through no fault of Odinson. I don't think it was a matter of always making Jane strong by making Odinson look weak, sometimes it was just that both things happened, without there being an intent to compare. Other times, certainly there was.

I think it's more often the case that the legacy hero has to struggle to fulfill the mantle and obligations of the previous person to use that identity, but still overcoming it in their own way.

Jane just comes in and excels at handling things the way Thor used to.

I can see the view that Jane's character might have been better served by not excelling in the physical realm so much, so fast. Especially since it was never about physical strength, anyway. Having Odinson remain as the clearly better physical warrior could arguably be the better choice (although I do think Odinson's lack of physical accomplishments in this run has been drastically overstated).

Wasn't it more about how well you can swing a hammer ?

Both of you are making huge assumptions that you know what is planned or exactly what the run is about. Yet both of these things I would disagree with fundamentally. Aaron is not telling a story that will eventually put him back where he was. Aaron is not suggesting that the hammer is what makes Thor.

I mean, then what's there for me to care about if Thor isn't going to really be Thor again and actually act like it? Just hope I can get along with Aaron's characterization and depiction of him?

If Aaron wants me to think the hammer is not what makes Thor Thor then I don't think he should put so much bloody emphasis on how much Thor obsesses over hammers or how integral it is.

I talked about it a bit in my last post...I'm not totally clear on the mechanics of powers and skill and the hammer. As I understand it ( which could be totally wrong), you're worthy, you lift, you get the powers of Thor. Skill, battle tactics, the whole thing. But that part has never really interested me. Anyone who is more clear on that whole thing and is willing to explain? What's the most recent interpretation given in the books?

I think ostensibly it just gives you control of Mjolnir and some of Thor's power, as in the inscrption, it wasn't until Jane that there seemed to be the personality revamp and combat skills that come associated with Thor.

I mean, getting to the Blake thing, I think Jane's Thor persona was to some degree a distant personality that took over her, even if it still had her thoughts and memories. I just read in the Damnation event where the two were split up but acted like individuals, which I don't think would have happened if they were the exact same.

Was Odinson ever really risking his life on Midgard, though? "Immortal risking his life" sounds contradictory, no? Could he be killed by mortals with blades? I'm honestly asking, I'm not completely sure on those answers. I'm pretty sure the real risk was pretty minimal, though. It wasn't much more than someone punching way, way down. Did he give any thought to which side he would fight on? Or did he just pick whichever group of humans who would worship him the most? These are all questions for young Odinson. If we're talking about the Odinson of "our" time, you'd get very different answers and they would make him look a lot better.

Considering all the threats on Midgard that can give trouble to an Asgardian, I don't think it's contradictory.

Religion and gods and Asgard in particular do come under heavy scrutiny. Some of it's fair, some of it's from a very biased character's perspective. Where you see pot shots I see questions and examination. The ability to lift the hammer definitely plays a large role, as a symbol and in the literal sense. I wouldn't say it makes up more of his identity than being a god or hero but it's a big part, for sure. But his struggles to originally lift the hammer and his deep desire to do so aren't new in Aaron's run, unless I'm mis-remembering, which is possible.

I think the exact focus and obsession with lifting it is new, at least to the extent portrayed by Aaron.

[Daniel22]

I would have confidence in that if only I believed that was how Aaron still visualized Thor as a character, and I honestly don't at this point.

Other then when it's Jane I don't think that's how he sees Thor anymore.

I think it's more often the case that the legacy hero has to struggle to fulfill the mantle and obligations of the previous person to use that identity, but still overcoming it in their own way.

Jane just comes in and excels at handling things the way Thor used to.

Wasn't it more about how well you can swing a hammer ?

I mean, then what's there for me to care about if Thor isn't going to really be Thor again and actually act like it? Just hope I can get along with Aaron's characterization and depiction of him?

If Aaron wants me to think the hammer is not what makes Thor Thor then I don't think he should put so much bloody emphasis on how much Thor obsesses over hammers or how integral it is.

I think ostensibly it just gives you control of Mjolnir and some of Thor's power, as in the inscrption, it wasn't until Jane that there seemed to be the personality revamp and combat skills that come associated with Thor.

I mean, getting to the Blake thing, I think Jane's Thor persona was to some degree a distant personality that took over her, even if it still had her thoughts and memories. I just read in the Damnation event where the two were split up but acted like individuals, which I don't think would have happened if they were the exact same.

Considering all the threats on Midgard that can give trouble to an Asgardian, I don't think it's contradictory.

I think the exact focus and obsession with lifting it is new, at least to the extent portrayed by Aaron.

I'm guessing that Aaron's professional responsibility to put the toys mostly back where he found them will win out. You're probably right in that Aaron doesn't see him in the same light as past creators. That's one of the reasons he crafted an interesting tale to me but it went over like a fart in church to others (to use one of my granddad's phrases).

I agree that externally Jane does mostly the same things as Odinson. Her motivations and character are very different though. Jane faced all the issues any legacy/ replacement hero faces. It was harder for her (in the real world) because she was shining while the old favorite was still around and wallowing. I think she would have been even more loved and successful (again in the real world) if Odinson was off the board somehow for most of the run.

Interesting point on the two personas.. I'll have to reread Damnation. If Thor-Jane is a seperate persona than Jane-Jane, where do you think she comes from? Is she gone now?

There are tons of threats to Odinson on Earth now, and in the recent past, true. My question was about young Odinson hanging out with mortals in Midgard. Was he risking anything? Can regular humans with swords realistically hope to kill him? Obviously Galactus and Mangog and Cul and others can, but can some humans from hundreds or thousands of years ago?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm guessing that Aaron's professional responsibility to put the toys mostly back where he found them will win out. You're probably right in that Aaron doesn't see him in the same light as past creators. That's one of the reasons he crafted an interesting tale to me but it went over like a fart in church to others (to use one of my granddad's phrases).

I agree that externally Jane does mostly the same things as Odinson. Her motivations and character are very different though. Jane faced all the issues any legacy/ replacement hero faces. It was harder for her (in the real world) because she was shining while the old favorite was still around and wallowing. I think she would have been even more loved and successful (again in the real world) if Odinson was off the board somehow for most of the run.

I think Jane would have been more successful if she actually had any issue carrying on as Thor. Too much emphasize was put on how Jane, nurse of Midgard, was leaps and bounds better than the warrior prince at damn near everything.

Not every successor has to fail, but they should at least struggle to uphold the legacy. Jane just breezed through everything

[Immortal Hulk]

LOL! Captain Marvel >> Queen of Cinders (WotR #6)

Marvel.com preview:

https://youtu.be/08E3HpjFW_U



Aaron really reduced the 10 realms threats to nothing.

[The Cool Thatguy]

LOL! Captain Marvel >> Queen of Cinders (WotR #6)

Marvel.com preview:

https://youtu.be/08E3HpjFW_U



Aaron really reduced the 10 realms threats to nothing.

I think a basic failing of this story is that Aaron never really provided the least bit of suspension of disbelief, or a meaningful hook, to this entire crossover. No reason to look at it beyond your basic invasion, or an excuse to believe it might have some impact. Hell, at least Secret Invasion teased at imposters.

[GodThor]

LOL! Captain Marvel >> Queen of Cinders (WotR #6)

Marvel.com preview:

https://youtu.be/08E3HpjFW_U



Aaron really reduced the 10 realms threats to nothing.

Isn't Sindr supposed to be on Thor's level or above???

LoL and it's off panel most likely.

[Frontier]

I'm guessing that Aaron's professional responsibility to put the toys mostly back where he found them will win out. You're probably right in that Aaron doesn't see him in the same light as past creators. That's one of the reasons he crafted an interesting tale to me but it went over like a fart in church to others (to use one of my granddad's phrases).

I hope so.

I agree that externally Jane does mostly the same things as Odinson. Her motivations and character are very different though. Jane faced all the issues any legacy/ replacement hero faces. It was harder for her (in the real world) because she was shining while the old favorite was still around and wallowing. I think she would have been even more loved and successful (again in the real world) if Odinson was off the board somehow for most of the run.

I don't think her motivation and character were that different even if they were informed by a different life experience, but when she was in Thor mode she was mostly just Thor in everything she did.

I agree they should've taken OG!Thor out of the way completely. I'm not sure if that would have effected Jane's popularity any more but I think it would've helped Thor's.

Interesting point on the two personas.. I'll have to reread Damnation. If Thor-Jane is a seperate persona than Jane-Jane, where do you think she comes from? Is she gone now?

The Mother Storm/Mjolnir, I'd guess.

There are tons of threats to Odinson on Earth now, and in the recent past, true. My question was about young Odinson hanging out with mortals in Midgard. Was he risking anything? Can regular humans with swords realistically hope to kill him? Obviously Galactus and Mangog and Cul and others can, but can some humans from hundreds or thousands of years ago?

Does what he did as young Thor really pertain to him as an adult now, though?

I think Jane would have been more successful if she actually had any issue carrying on as Thor. Too much emphasize was put on how Jane, nurse of Midgard, was leaps and bounds better than the warrior prince at damn near everything.

Not every successor has to fail, but they should at least struggle to uphold the legacy. Jane just breezed through everything

Honestly, I think Jane's effectiveness is part of why she was as successful as she was.

[Immortal Hulk]

Isn't Sindr supposed to be on Thor's level or above???

LoL and it's off panel most likely.

Considering who is her father and the fact that She's the Queen of Muspelheim, I'd say she gotta be at least close to Surtur. After all, She's a Hell Lord (lady)!

[Daniel22]

I hope so.

I don't think her motivation and character were that different even if they were informed by a different life experience, but when she was in Thor mode she was mostly just Thor in everything she did.

I agree they should've taken OG!Thor out of the way completely. I'm not sure if that would have effected Jane's popularity any more but I think it would've helped Thor's.

The Mother Storm/Mjolnir, I'd guess.

Does what he did as young Thor really pertain to him as an adult now, though?

Honestly, I think Jane's effectiveness is part of why she was as successful as she was.

Hmm.. thinking of the mother storm/ Mjollinir thing (with only having read Damnation once, months ago)... does an entity enter Odinson when he wields the hammer? Is it unique to Jane? I mean it looks like Jane but is it one of those things where it takes on the appearance of whoever wields it? This is a new thing to me, for whatever reason the Damnation stuff didn't stick with me.

I think what we do in the past pertains to us in the present, absolutely. In regards to Thor, I interpret it as he has built this appearance of nobility (the Thor we know, who fights Thanos and the like) on a flawed foundation. He presents as the big hero, regal and giving. But he wasn't always that and maybe he's closer to that young man who used Earth as a playground. Maybe the Thor that just wants worship and women never went away, maybe it just got a coat of paint. Maybe he's still a transactional god. If that young man is still around, what he did as a young man still pertains.

[Cronus]

Honestly I just wish Jurgens would write Thor.

Or possibly Remender.

[Daniel22]

Honestly I just wish Jurgens would write Thor.

Or possibly Remender.

Remender would be great. His creator owned stuff is doing fantastic but who knows, maybe he'll come back. His "Seven to Eternity" is awesome!

[Immortal Hulk]

Just read War of the Realms #6!

Gotta say I liked a lot. Nice one, Aaron It surprised me.

That's a Thunder God I'd like to read about.

Obviously, a single book doesn't erase almost 5 years of mediocre/bad book, but the new status quo is very interesting and can lead to some awesome stories.

That said, it raised my expectations for King Thor, which could reach God Butcher's highs!

[Alpha to Omega]

Just read War of the Realms #6!

Gotta say I liked a lot. Nice one, Aaron It surprised me.

That's a Thunder God I'd like to read about.

Obviously, a single book doesn't erase almost 5 years of mediocre/bad book, but the new status quo is very interesting and can lead to some awesome stories.

That said, it raised my expectations for King Thor, which could reach God Butcher's highs!

Hated it. spoilers:

After years of Aaron's ****, turns out the lesson Thor needed to learn was "it's the struggle to be worthy that's important" and presto he can lift the hammer? What complete and utter bullshit. And he doesn't even get to kill Malekith after everything he's done, no Malekith has to die like a goddamn Disney villain. Can't wait to see Aaron ignore that Thor's been King of Asgard and All-Father before and have him act completely inexperienced. That is if he doesn't have Thor just instantly abdicate in favor of someone else. And goddamn am I completely sick and tired of the constant mead and alcohol references.

end of spoilers

[GodThor]

Hated it. spoilers:

After years of Aaron's ****, turns out the lesson Thor needed to learn was "it's the struggle to be worthy that's important" and presto he can lift the hammer? What complete and utter bullshit. And he doesn't even get to kill Malekith after everything he's done, no Malekith has to die like a goddamn Disney villain. Can't wait to see Aaron ignore that Thor's been King of Asgard and All-Father before and have him act completely inexperienced. That is if he doesn't have Thor just instantly abdicate in favor of someone else. And goddamn am I completely sick and tired of the constant mead and alcohol references.

end of spoilers

yeah, it's just bad chapter.
spoilers:

Jane calling Thor a boy LFMAO, mead references, Odin being useless as ever under Aaron, Mother Storm BS brought back again, generic dialogue, Thor saying Jane was his teacher, villains getting wrekted easily, Jane being Thor again etc. btw, I didn't like how Thor became the king. it looks cringy asf and idiotic, especially with Odin kneeling in his idiotic Iron Man armor. and the most garbage part of all is that the lesson Thor learned is that the hammer doesn't make Thor Thor LFMAO. Aaron's run was all about how Thor thinks he is not Thor because he doesn't have a hammer. Thor is THOR SINCE FREAKING BIRTH!!!! is Mr. Aaron on drugs??? gtho from Thor books. this is definitely the worst type of writing I have ever read in my life.

end of spoilers

finally, this garbage is over.

[GodThor]

Considering who is her father and the fact that She's the Queen of Muspelheim, I'd say she gotta be at least close to Surtur. After all, She's a Hell Lord (lady)!

yeah, she was wrekted too easily.