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  1. #1666
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    LOL, people are going to be so upset when they read Avengers #20 especially Ulik's little spiel.

  2. #1667

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    Quote Originally Posted by God
    spoilers:
    and the most garbage part of all is that the lesson Thor learned is that the hammer doesn't make Thor Thor LFMAO. Aaron's run was all about how Thor thinks he is not Thor because he doesn't have a hammer.

    Thor is THOR SINCE FREAKING BIRTH!!!!

    is Mr. Aaron on drugs???

    gtho from Thor books..
    end of spoilers
    One of the 9000 plus reasons why jason aaroon should be consider one of the worst writers of thor in marvel history. His grasp on character has been so out of touch with his history so much. What he doing to she-hulk almost as bad over in avengers.

  3. #1668
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    is...is it over? a..are we finally free from aaron?
    ___________________________________________

    well, a nice and meh issue to end what has been an absolutely terrible run of thor though it was the best issue of the 6 by far, ty aaron you can go write king thor where u can't push jane in our faces all the fcking time and write a character you actually like~

    I do prefer the status he has left us with (cept the whole jane valkyrie), but man was the journey to get here fcking terrible

    as for issue itself, alpha and godthor similar thoughts to mine:

    spoilers:
    cinder being defeated seemingly solo by cap marvel is just... w.e tie-in book shows the fight better show cap marvel getting some serious help from people at the very least :/

    THANK GOD jane was not the one to end malekith though gotta make sure aaron continues to fcking push her into everything, this time by becoming thor again... sigh... pls whoever takes over Thor comic, get rid of jane PLEASE... had enough of her being the most important figure in thor mythos and being better than any asgardian -_-

    jane calling thor boy... fck the hell off pls jane... "i had a good teacher" just stop plsssssss, enough of jane being the best and greatest

    as for the whole unworthy plotline, yup it was just weak and clearly shows that aaron had no idea what to do with the unworthy story line... a marketing ploy to push his pet jane with no real plan to explore anything... from the terrible reveal of the whisper all the way to this dumb resolution... w.e, at least it gets thor back with a hammer and as king now even if he once again brought up the stupid mother storm BS

    but hey, seeing daredevil kick ass was amazing and the issue had great art as usual and honestly I don't mind how Thor became king, at least it didn't involve jane giving him permission or some **** though the whole kneeling part was kinda cringe... wish odin and thor had a more family bonding moment that this, but at least they talked instead of aaron making odin shout at everyone
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by voidox; 06-26-2019 at 08:23 AM.

  4. #1669
    Astonishing Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermutant2099 View Post
    One of the 9000 plus reasons why jason aaroon should be consider one of the worst writers of thor in marvel history. His grasp on character has been so out of touch with his history so much. What he doing to she-hulk almost as bad over in avengers.
    yeah, exactly.

  5. #1670
    Astonishing Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidox View Post
    spoilers:
    cinder being defeated seemingly solo by cap marvel is just... w.e tie-in book shows the fight better show cap marvel getting some serious help from people at the very least :/
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    yeah, I guess.

    she was pretty roughed up in Agents of Atlas (tanking 445,000 hercs of mystical energy to the face was pretty insane).

    still, to get trolled by kids...

    but I do think Captain Marvel standing on Sindr looked insanely badass.
    end of spoilers

  6. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    How, exactly?

    So many people defend the reveal that 'Gorr was right' as some deep examination of Gods in which Thor must somehow redeem himself and Gods at large.

    Even when one ignores all past canon, in which an immortal prince risks his life for mortals, it becomes even harder to ignore that people must redeem themselves for their actions. Not the opinion of others.

    Under Aaron, I see no meaningful questions asked, simply pot shots at religion and Asgard where possible. That Thor identifies his identity more with a hammer, than being a God or a hero, does not inspire me to believe that there's some grand, overreaching arc to all of this.
    I agree with you entirely

  7. #1672

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    How, exactly?

    So many people defend the reveal that 'Gorr was right' as some deep examination of Gods in which Thor must somehow redeem himself and Gods at large.

    Even when one ignores all past canon, in which an immortal prince risks his life for mortals, it becomes even harder to ignore that people must redeem themselves for their actions. Not the opinion of others.

    Under Aaron, I see no meaningful questions asked, simply pot shots at religion and Asgard where possible. That Thor identifies his identity more with a hammer, than being a God or a hero, does not inspire me to believe that there's some grand, overreaching arc to all of this.
    I hated the gorr being right being the reveal cause it made no sense that would cause him to be not worthy. If gorr was right the would make thor unworthy would have no been worthy years ago. Its not thor himself and his will. But his actions and enchantment on that hammer that judges the wielder.
    At least that what I thought the way the hammer To the name made no sense either. When he lost the hammer or worthiness before he still called himself Thor. It goes back Aaroon didn't understand thor or history.

  8. #1673
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermutant2099 View Post
    I hated the gorr being right being the reveal cause it made no sense that would cause him to be not worthy. If gorr was right the would make thor unworthy would have no been worthy years ago. Its not thor himself and his will. But his actions and enchantment on that hammer that judges the wielder.
    At least that what I thought the way the hammer To the name made no sense either. When he lost the hammer or worthiness before he still called himself Thor. It goes back Aaroon didn't understand thor or history.
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real

    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  9. #1674
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real

    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    Amen. Summed up the run nice and easily.

  10. #1675

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real

    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    I already said that I disagree step with unworthiness and not going to repeat. This doesn't really change. To me gorr stuff was dumb. Even if there was doubt it should have Thor decide not pick up the hammer till he felt worthy. That he could not pick it up anymore.

  11. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real

    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    Well put. The only thing I'll add is he also, for the first time, really questioned godhood and its relationship with mortals. Whether just being a god made him something to worship. Whether he was ever selfless or was he seeking adulation and worship. And whether he appreciated the gifts of godhood along with the responsibilities.

  12. #1677
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Well put. The only thing I'll add is he also, for the first time, really questioned godhood and its relationship with mortals. Whether just being a god made him something to worship. Whether he was ever selfless or was he seeking adulation and worship. And whether he appreciated the gifts of godhood along with the responsibilities.
    The thing about comic books, is you really have to ask yourself what the heck a god even is. Is it just a very powerful person who lives a long time? Arguably that's all gods are in the marvel universe. Just really powerful aliens. Silver Surfer is just as much a god as Thor from that perspective. It's almost a meaningless term when you think about it. Why should they be worshipped.

    To people that really know Thor, like Steve or Tony, he's more a co-worker than a god.

    Given a lot of them are frankly jerks (and Thor at least is one of the exceptions), it frankly doesn't make sense to worship them anymore than any other really powerful being walking around the MU.

  13. #1678
    Breaker of Worlds Immortal Hulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real

    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    I've been highly critical of this run, and I hate a lot of it.

    But I would be lying if I said this post didn't make feel/understand better about it.

  14. #1679
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Step 1: Thor is already worthy because he's a good guy.

    Step 2: Thor fights a villain who proclaims the cruelty and unworthiness of gods, planting the idea in his head

    Step 3: The belief is affirmed by someone all-knowing, the doubt becomes real


    Step 4: Thor's doubt of Gods causes him to believe he shouldn't have the power, so he can't, throwing his identity in flux because he's the same person but believes that his entire life was wrong because of his species-guilt as a privileged, unworthy god and that he has to be something more

    Step 5: Thor goes back to work regardless of this issue, which is why he can lift the Mjolnir chip

    Step 6: By throwing away the chip, Thor abandons the entire quest to do the right thing so he can end the war

    Step 7: Which allows him to learn that he doesn't need to reach some higher idea of worthiness, he needs to be the best he can be in spite of that, knowing that he isn't perfect or the idea of "worthy" that is perfection, but that the struggle to try and live up to it anyway is what gives you the real power

    Step 8: This increased knowledge gives Thor the full power of the hammer that no one's ever had

    Step 0.5: The first time he lifts it in today's tie-in is when he forgets about being worthy and just tries to do his best to save his mom, before deciding to be satisfied the way he is whether he has it or not

    TL;DR Thor became disillusioned by the idea of there being something more he couldn't live up to, but that lets him realize that obsessing over something you can't reach leads nowhere, but accepting that and trying your best anyway is the key and real lesson of the story

    STL;DR: We can never be "worthy" if that means we have to be perfect, but we can still do our best to try and that's ok. That's what gives us value. And Thor'll be our god trying just like us.
    This is as unnecessarily convoluted as I expected it to be. We really did go around in a circle with this storyline .

    I think my problem is I don't think Thor would view Fury as all-knowing. The information came from an individual he was probably the least likely to believe at that point in his career.

    "And Thor'll be our god trying just like us." - Hopefully that means less mead and goofiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Hulk View Post
    I've been highly critical of this run, and I hate a lot of it.

    But I would be lying if I said this post didn't make feel/understand better about it.
    I think it's an interesting rationalization of Aaron's run and what he's trying to get at but also feels far too convoluted and over-complicated for it's own good. Especially over something so simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    yeah, it's just bad chapter.
    spoilers:
    Jane calling Thor a boy LFMAO, mead references, Odin being useless as ever under Aaron, Mother Storm BS brought back again, generic dialogue, Thor saying Jane was his teacher, villains getting wrekted easily, Jane being Thor again etc.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    I didn't even really get what they meant.

    I mean, I get what they were going for, but in practice the hammer was 50-60% what made Jane Thor. She would not have been able to pull it off at all without the hammer. So did she really make the hammer? It just didn't make sense.
    end of spoilers
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Well put. The only thing I'll add is he also, for the first time, really questioned godhood and its relationship with mortals. Whether just being a god made him something to worship. Whether he was ever selfless or was he seeking adulation and worship. And whether he appreciated the gifts of godhood along with the responsibilities.
    Again, this really only sounds like a problem for Young Thor and not present day Thor.

  15. #1680
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The thing about comic books, is you really have to ask yourself what the heck a god even is. Is it just a very powerful person who lives a long time? Arguably that's all gods are in the marvel universe. Just really powerful aliens. Silver Surfer is just as much a god as Thor from that perspective. It's almost a meaningless term when you think about it. Why should they be worshipped.

    To people that really know Thor, like Steve or Tony, he's more a co-worker than a god.

    Given a lot of them are frankly jerks (and Thor at least is one of the exceptions), it frankly doesn't make sense to worship them anymore than any other really powerful being walking around the MU.
    Oh, for sure. Look at Young Thor. He comes down and fights battles, killing mortals. That's great.. if he happens to choose your side. If you're one of the ants he's stepping on.. not so much. Did he know or care which side he fought on? Is it really noble to kill beings who pose no threat to you? Who would worship the god who slaughtered their family because he fancied a woman on the other side?

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