Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[Overhazard]

Playing catch up a bit. Sometimes this thread is too fast for me.

We had an entire thread about this. It is kind of referenced in WotR #6 too. Did you get to “Unworthy Thor”? Thor didn’t do anything to become unworthy. He just discovered that the gods of the Marvel Universe are are by their nature and on balance unworthy. That necessarily included him. That sent him into a spiral of self doubt and depression before he got kidnapped and forced to confront some of that self loathing. He may never consider himself worthy again.

I read that Mini, and a lot of the problems I have with Thor were cemented in it. I was hoping Thor would come to terms with being unworthy, and he did, and while I wasn't expecting him to pick up the ultimate hammer and be like "Im all better now" I wanted him to stop feeling sorry for himself, he cut his hair, found a shirt, but still called himself "The Unworthy Thor."

[JKtheMac]

I read that Mini, and a lot of the problems I have with Thor were cemented in it. I was hoping Thor would come to terms with being unworthy, and he did, and while I wasn't expecting him to pick up the ultimate hammer and be like "Im all better now" I wanted him to stop feeling sorry for himself, he cut his hair, found a shirt, but still called himself "The Unworthy Thor."

Well he kind of still does. Even now after he has reclaimed Mjolnir. I imagine that if you didn't like that idea than you will always have a problem with the whole thing. This is kind of where my messianic suggestion comes in. By acknowledging the struggle for worthiness the gods could change. As I said way back in the thread Unworthy Thor: The Logic of Aaron's Run


There is a chink in this logic. Thor Odinson is Unworthy because of how the gods use their power. That isn’t a static thing. That is something that can change.

Odinson can’t quite see that in Unworthy Thor, even when Beta-Ray Bill tells him to his face “you are no mere god my friend”. Beta-Ray holds the truth. His words hint that the gods could become a benevolent force, “Every day you give your blood, your tears, your immortal soul, to prove Gor wrong”.

Thor could be an example through actions and deeds. He can both accept X [his unworthiness] and defy it. A figure that is worthy of mankind and the gods. Step up Thor God of Thunder, Champion of Yggdrasil, Defender of the realms, God of Worthiness. [Notably Aaron turned that upside down, but inversions are very similar]

I have insisted all along that this would be a transformative story. That the circle would be squared. This is the formulation I now perceive as the outcome of the story:

Gor was Right, but Thor can change the situation. The gods can change. The gods can become worthy but only through their actions. Through the living example of Thor Odinson.

Now, Aaron hasn't quite gone there yet. But he might. The signs are there. He is 90% there already.

[JKtheMac]

aaron killed jesus

Its alright. He is a bit like Kenny. He comes back.

[Snoop Dogg]

ODINSON: This is the truth of the gods.

BILL: But you're--

ODINSON: Beer time.

BILL: You're still a great--

ODINSON: Beer. Time.

BILL: I think you're cool.

ODINSON: Thanks. Beer time.

[GodThor]

a few more months and the destruction ends.

[Panic]

Aaron's brand of destruction ends... the replacement might be no better for Thor.

[charliehustle415]

King Thor is the logical end to the story that began with Thor's resurrection back when Straczynski wrote his run.

Thor brought his people back, it fell to ruin, he lost his title, replaced by a worthy successor, war started by a being he resurrected, learned from his mistakes, won the war, regained his title and gained a new one.

Pretty epic stuff if you take it all in as a cohesive whole.

[GodThor]

Aaron's brand of destruction ends... the replacement might be no better for Thor.

LoL so true.

whoever follows up next in gonna continue this path of destruction... not that there is anything left to destroy.

btw, I just noticed how the inscription on the hammer changed LMAO.

and Jane telling Odin to run away...

absolutely horrendous.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Thor #404 Jun 1989
"Something is Killing the Great Gods of Asgard"
Thor has returned to Asgard to face the judgment of Odin;

Later, Thor and the Warriors Three hear screams

and discover dead Asgardians with their life force completely drained;
Balder and Thor follow a tunnel down below the city and discover several Asgardians trapped in cocoons,

drained by Annihilus.

Script by Ron Frenz (plot) and Tom DeFalco (plot and script), art by Ron Frenz (layouts) and Joe Sinnott (finishes)

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

"Tales of Asgard" back-up,
"Ulag The Grand Enchanter"

Odin sends Thor on a quest to find Ulagg,

and tell him its time to fulfill his duties.

Script by Tom DeFalco, art by Tony DeZuniga

[The Cool Thatguy]

Why are you comparing it to minorities when it's obviously closer to privileged people? The basic premise of Gorr's opinion on gods is that he thought they were perfect beings who would reward him if he kept the faith, only to discover that gods are powerful entities more like mortals who are flawed and who can do bad things. But they still get worshipped as something greater anyway. His title was butcher because he wanted to prove that they weren't above mortals by killing them and proving that they're all just meat like everyone else. Thor starting to believe it is Thor realizing that gods don't live up to expectations and don't deserve the privilege, because that's true, and that truth has him deny and devalue his own worth and heroism.

The end of the story, again, is him fully accepting that he cannot live up to Gorr's standard of perfection, but he can try his best regardless. He chooses to do that instead of letting that fact impair his ability to be a hero by obsessing over it and denying his value. He was partly there when Mjolnir got thrown into the sun and he still decided to be Thor, but he was still upset that he wasn't something he can't be. Which is why he could only carry the chip around his neck. Which is why he still goes into the sun for the hammer, because he still views it as a way to affirm who he is. Throwing the chip away is him abandoning the idea entirely to just do good. Young Thor lifts the hammer when he forgets about the hammer to just do good. It's not that he becomes worthy and the rest of the gods aren't, it's that he is still and will always be unworthy and that's ok. It's no excuse to not do his best and he accepts that fully. It is in the comic book. If your takeaway was "Gorr's words only exempt Thor." You didn't read yesterday's issues.

The gods are still flawed beings and many don't deserve their position, and the standard of "worthiness" established by the first villain is impossible to meet. Be yourself and be the best you can be. That's the story. The closest allegory would be to those at the top of society, not minorities at the bottom. And it still doesn't make much sense because we don't expect the richest and most powerful to be perfect, because it's not an allegory for a group of people. It's an examination of how religion works in a universe where deities are casually written as really powerful but normal characters.

Because Gorr's statement, and it being legitimized by the hammer, casts shade on the character of an entire race of people. Starting at their most noble member, no less.

All this unworthiness arc did, from start to finish, was place Thor EXACTLY where he had always been, doing good because it is good. Hell, that was Silver Age Thor. Aaron dramatically regressed Thor simply to bring him back to his original characterization

And yes, Gorr's words still only exempt Thor, because Gorr's words referred to all Gods, yet we only see that Thor has been changed by them.

[kilderkin]

Because Gorr's statement, and it being legitimized by the hammer, casts shade on the character of an entire race of people. Starting at their most noble member, no less.

All this unworthiness arc did, from start to finish, was place Thor EXACTLY where he had always been, doing good because it is good. Hell, that was Silver Age Thor. Aaron dramatically regressed Thor simply to bring him back to his original characterization

And yes, Gorr's words still only exempt Thor, because Gorr's words referred to all Gods, yet we only see that Thor has been changed by them.

The unworthy whisper and all that, still a load of nonsense

That's not gonna change

[Frontier]

Indeed the nuances and the way he deals carefully and with a light touch all of the issues that his detractors rail against is one the reasons I keep saying ‘why choose to interpret it negatively’. The nuance is there, the depth is there, the complexity of meaning is all in there, to take that and condense it into an argument of ‘alcoholic, hobo Thor’ or ‘Jane is the best Thor’ or ‘Aaron clearly hates Thor, Odin, Loki, canon’ is to throw away everything other than a surface impression that doesn’t even hold up on examination.

I don't know if I'd call Aaron's writing a "light touch."

I'm not saying he can't have subtleties or depth but he is also very in your face when it comes to certain plot points or things, and characters can feel less like 3-dimensional characters and more like an excessive character trait he wants to emphasize.

We had an entire thread about this. It is kind of referenced in WotR #6 too. Did you get to “Unworthy Thor”? Thor didn’t do anything to become unworthy. He just discovered that the gods of the Marvel Universe are are by their nature and on balance unworthy. That necessarily included him. That sent him into a spiral of self doubt and depression before he got kidnapped and forced to confront some of that self loathing. He may never consider himself worthy again.

I feel like that would have made more sense if he had actually examined the gods and cosmic beings of the MU more then he did by the time we hit the Unworthy storyline. As it stands Thor should know that there is a good balance between good gods and bad gods, with mortals caught in the middle.

I have never made this claim about you or anyone else. All I am saying is IF and it’s a big if it seems, you or anyone actually tries reading the material with a generosity of spirit, and assume that Aaron is not somehow trying to ruin your day, the nuance is there for you to read. Clearly I am saying you are ‘choosing’ not to do this. That is your right. If you don’t enjoy it why should you? That is not the same as saying you are not able to, or even willing to. It is a genuine appeal.

I like to think I took Aaron's run at face-value if only because I used to enjoy it.

I was even okay with Jane until the run went on and more of my issues with his take on the Thor mythos started popping up.

You say privilege, I say legitimacy but the point still holds. The closest analogy for me is monarchy. The gods are bad monarchs. I know that argument sometimes misses its mark in countries that disposed of their monarchies.

We could say bad government I guess. Certainly there was a critique of isolationism in there for a while.

I mean, I could argue it's valids that the gods leave mortals to their own devices and life instead of interfering with their divinly prestige and abilities, otherwise they can't truly stand on their own as a race. The Asgardians certainly have enough going on in their own life, and they're really who Odin presides over anyways...he's never viewed himself as ruler of Earth.

This does kind of remind me of Wakanda though.

ODINSON: This is the truth of the gods.

BILL: But you're--

ODINSON: Beer time.

BILL: You're still a great--

ODINSON: Beer. Time.

BILL: I think you're cool.

ODINSON: Thanks. Beer time.

No offense Snoop, but this reads like a more accurate take on the Aaron run to me .

King Thor is the logical end to the story that began with Thor's resurrection back when Straczynski wrote his run.

Thor brought his people back, it fell to ruin, he lost his title, replaced by a worthy successor, war started by a being he resurrected, learned from his mistakes, won the war, regained his title and gained a new one.

Pretty epic stuff if you take it all in as a cohesive whole.

When you put it that way it does sound like a cohesive and epic story but when you look deep into it...I don't know.

It feels like Thor is only becoming king to some degree because Aaron wants his run to feel full-circle. And he also loses an arm and an eye. But when I look at this run as a whole and see the person who's been interacting with, rallying, and defending Asgard the most...it's not really Thor, but his "worthy successor." So, even though I disagree with it, I feel like even Jane Foster has had more justification for being an All-Mother then Thor as king.

I mean, with how incompetent and ineffectual Odin has been, would anyone really want his son to take over? Not that we've seen much of Asgard's opinion on Thor beyond Jane.

And Thor is not a title. It can't be a title when it was originally his name. "wield the power of Thor," his power, not gain his title. This was true for Jane since she basically transformed into a gender-flipped version of Thor.

"God of Thunder" is more of a title but Thor never stopped being the God of Thunder. "Prince of Asgard" is a title.

[Skedatz]

Liked the end. It wasn't unexpected for any of us, but this is what Aarons was really leading up to with Thor redefining himself beyond just the God of Thunder and Vikings and really growing as a character again. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The best Thor stories are the ones which challenge the core of Thor as opposed to his limits of patience or mercy, but who he is.

[Frontier]

Liked the end. It wasn't unexpected for any of us, but this is what Aarons was really leading up to with Thor redefining himself beyond just the God of Thunder and Vikings and really growing as a character again. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The best Thor stories are the ones which challenge the core of Thor as opposed to his limits of patience or mercy, but who he is.

I mean, I don't think Thor has defined himself by vikings in a really long time .