Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[Skedatz]

And Thor is not a title. It can't be a title when it was originally his name. "wield the power of Thor," his power, not gain his title. This was true for Jane since she basically transformed into a gender-flipped version of Thor.

"God of Thunder" is more of a title but Thor never stopped being the God of Thunder. "Prince of Asgard" is a title.

It was also just the state of the wielder of Mjolnir. Nobody else who picked up the hammer and transformed but wasn't explicitly Thor inside and out was still called Thor for a while because they inherited the power and authority of his name. So it really doesn't bother me since it's not internally inconsistent with anybody else who ever picked up the hammer for more than two panels.

I mean, I don't think Thor has defined himself by vikings in a really long time .

lol A little bit, but I know what you mean.

[Frontier]

It was also just the state of the wielder of Mjolnir. Nobody else who picked up the hammer and transformed but wasn't explicitly Thor inside and out was still called Thor for a while because they inherited the power and authority of his name. So it really doesn't bother me since it's not internally inconsistent with anybody else who ever picked up the hammer for more than two panels.

Even Jane didn't want to be called Thor. Thor just didn't want to use his own name.

But then they tried to make it sound like a mantle or title that could be passed down rather then an actual name...and they lost me.

[phantom1592]

It was also just the state of the wielder of Mjolnir. Nobody else who picked up the hammer and transformed but wasn't explicitly Thor inside and out was still called Thor for a while because they inherited the power and authority of his name. So it really doesn't bother me since it's not internally inconsistent with anybody else who ever picked up the hammer for more than two panels.

lol A little bit, but I know what you mean.

Yep. I think the biggest problem was stilling having Thor around when he was replaced. Eric Masterson was when I started reading and nobody had a problem with him calling himself Thor when he was in the Thunder God persona. Though once Thor DID come back, he wanted to change his name to avoid confusion. There's a lot I don't like about Jane having the power... but using his name wasn't one of them.

Thor is in that tricky situation where THOR is BOTH his real name... AND his super hero identity. 95% of the earth don't believe he's truly the Norse God... To them Thor is the same as Captain America or Spider-man… and someone new gets the hammer, they're the new Thor.

The real problem was him walking away from his own name. that was dumb.

I will say that if/when Jane DOES get repowered... she does pick a new name. And not Thunderstrike. I'm still holding out hope for Eric to come back some day :P

[JKtheMac]

Even Jane didn't want to be called Thor. Thor just didn't want to use his own name.

But then they tried to make it sound like a mantle or title that could be passed down rather then an actual name...and they lost me.

Yes she did, she was just bashful. She picked up the hammer because the world needs a Thor. She became Thor the Goddess of Thunder. Aaron was doing his due diligence to not just have her claim the name so that fans wouldn’t get upset. The fact that some still did says a lot more about fandom than it does about the writing. What else is the deity of Thunder that wields a hammer that uses the name Thor supposed to be called? Especially in a book about the concept of Thor and examining the very nature of that inscription and the powers it bestows.

Reject the premise of a story and you have no way left to enjoy it. No point even reading it at that stage. You have already passed judgment on the core questions that the story is exploring.

[JKtheMac]

Yep. I think the biggest problem was stilling having Thor around when he was replaced. Eric Masterson was when I started reading and nobody had a problem with him calling himself Thor when he was in the Thunder God persona. Though once Thor DID come back, he wanted to change his name to avoid confusion. There's a lot I don't like about Jane having the power... but using his name wasn't one of them.

Thor is in that tricky situation where THOR is BOTH his real name... AND his super hero identity. 95% of the earth don't believe he's truly the Norse God... To them Thor is the same as Captain America or Spider-man… and someone new gets the hammer, they're the new Thor.

The real problem was him walking away from his own name. that was dumb.

I will say that if/when Jane DOES get repowered... she does pick a new name. And not Thunderstrike. I'm still holding out hope for Eric to come back some day :P

Thor as only briefly around. He was rapidly moved off of the table by being kidnapped once his usefulness to the story was over. So it is a little odd to criticise a story for not doing something that it actually did do for months on end.

[Frontier]

Yes she did, she was just bashful. She picked up the hammer because the world needs a Thor. She became Thor the Goddess of Thunder. Aaron was doing his due diligence to not just have her claim the name so that fans wouldn’t get upset. The fact that some still did says a lot more about fandom than it does about the writing. What else is the deity of Thunder that wields a hammer that uses the name Thor supposed to be called? Especially in a book about the concept of Thor and examining the very nature of that inscription and the powers it bestows.

I don't think she was being bashful. I think she expected to just use his powers, not his name. He was always Thor to her, not her, she just took the name because he nonsensically didn't want it anymore.

If it's not Thor himself it's whoever is wielding his powers. The name and powers signify him.

Reject the premise of a story and you have no way left to enjoy it. No point even reading it at that stage. You have already passed judgment on the core questions that the story is exploring.

Less then rejecting, I just disagree with it .

Thor as only briefly around. He was rapidly moved off of the table by being kidnapped once his usefulness to the story was over. So it is a little odd to criticise a story for not doing something that it actually did do for months on end.

Yep. That sounds like that era of Thor .

[charliehustle415]

When you put it that way it does sound like a cohesive and epic story but when you look deep into it...I don't know.

It feels like Thor is only becoming king to some degree because Aaron wants his run to feel full-circle. And he also loses an arm and an eye. But when I look at this run as a whole and see the person who's been interacting with, rallying, and defending Asgard the most...it's not really Thor, but his "worthy successor." So, even though I disagree with it, I feel like even Jane Foster has had more justification for being an All-Mother then Thor as king.

I mean, with how incompetent and ineffectual Odin has been, would anyone really want his son to take over? Not that we've seen much of Asgard's opinion on Thor beyond Jane.

And Thor is not a title. It can't be a title when it was originally his name. "wield the power of Thor," his power, not gain his title. This was true for Jane since she basically transformed into a gender-flipped version of Thor.

"God of Thunder" is more of a title but Thor never stopped being the God of Thunder. "Prince of Asgard" is a title.

Oh, I agree Thor isn't a title; but my head cannon for Jane is that there was a power transfer. A power transfer from the "Mother of Storms" to Jane, which is how she became the goddess of thunder; but she was never the Goddess of Thunder. She was merely the wielder of the power given to her by the Mother of Storms because Thor was and will always will be the God of Thunder.

Now for Thor being the savior of Asgard, well he is, full stop. He is the one that resurrected Asgard and its citizens along with the Nine Realms, he defended it against Osborn, Cull, Galactus, and whoever else, and finally he is the one who sent it back to the heavens.

Odin has always been ineffectual we learned that when chose to stay behind and fight Surtur to the death in a forever cycle, and it was further solidified with his treatment of his brother and his lack of foresight of what would happen if he escaped (we have to remember he is supposed to be All-Knowing). But what really put the death knell for Odin was his deception of the 10th Realm and his view on the Council of Realms and Jane, he couldn't get over his own ego, even though he knew what was at risk.

With Thor losing his appendages and whatnot we know that the Gods are forever resurrected, so does it really matter?

[Frontier]

Oh, I agree Thor isn't a title; but my head cannon for Jane is that there was a power transfer. A power transfer from the "Mother of Storms" to Jane, which is how she became the goddess of thunder; but she was never the Goddess of Thunder. She was merely the wielder of the power given to her by the Mother of Storms because Thor was and will always will be the God of Thunder.

I agree that I think Jane's Thor power and form came from Mjolnir/The Mother Storm.

Now for Thor being the savior of Asgard, well he is, full stop. He is the one that resurrected Asgard and its citizens along with the Nine Realms, he defended it against Osborn, Cull, Galactus, and whoever else, and finally he is the one who sent it back to the heavens.

I know, I'm just talking in the context of Aaron's run individually.

Odin has always been ineffectual we learned that when chose to stay behind and fight Surtur to the death in a forever cycle, and it was further solidified with his treatment of his brother and his lack of foresight of what would happen if he escaped (we have to remember he is supposed to be All-Knowing). But what really put the death knell for Odin was his deception of the 10th Realm and his view on the Council of Realms and Jane, he couldn't get over his own ego, even though he knew what was at risk.

I'm not sure if the former two events are as much a sign of him being ineffectual as dealing with divine problems with no easy answer. It doesn't make him a bad or ineffective ruler if things happen beyond his control, and the Surtur thing was him actually trying to exer back control.

The latter was just a sign of the bad writing I think Odin has been saddled with under Aaron.

With Thor losing his appendages and whatnot we know that the Gods are forever resurrected, so does it really matter?

I mean, I personally like Thor with all his body parts, but to each their own .

Although I feel like Aaron is trying to make them more permanent then they should be in my opinion.

[JKtheMac]

Less then rejecting, I just disagree with it .

My point was serious. If you want to argue with the fact that the story was about Jane taking on the full mantle of Thor why bother to even comment on it? You are rejecting the premise. It would be the same as saying Jedi are just nonsensical mystical tosh and moaning about that after every Star Wars movie. You made up your mind to disagree right at the start, so clearly the story wasn’t for you. Not every story will be.

[charliehustle415]

I agree that I think Jane's Thor power and form came from Mjolnir/The Mother Storm.


I know, I'm just talking in the context of Aaron's run individually.

I'm not sure if the former two events are as much a sign of him being ineffectual as dealing with divine problems with no easy answer. It doesn't make him a bad or ineffective ruler if things happen beyond his control, and the Surtur thing was him actually trying to exer back control.

The latter was just a sign of the bad writing I think Odin has been saddled with under Aaron.

I mean, I personally like Thor with all his body parts, but to each their own .

Although I feel like Aaron is trying to make them more permanent then they should be in my opinion.

Oh totally, it might stick for a little bit right up until the next MCU movie is released. But I truly think that taken as a whole from his return to now is a pretty amazing epic, one that that may not be replicated in a long time. The only one that I can think that gets close is Incredible Herc, but that was a comedic take on a pantheon.

[Frontier]

My point was serious. If you want to argue with the fact that the story was about Jane taking on the full mantle of Thor why bother to even comment on it? You are rejecting the premise. It would be the same as saying Jedi are just nonsensical mystical tosh and moaning about that after every Star Wars movie. You made up your mind to disagree right at the start, so clearly the story wasn’t for you. Not every story will be.

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with what the story was trying to do or did (the execution is a different beast). I just don't think it made sense on the premise of how they used Thor's name.

Oh totally, it might stick for a little bit right up until the next MCU movie is released. But I truly think that taken as a whole from his return to now is a pretty amazing epic, one that that may not be replicated in a long time. The only one that I can think that gets close is Incredible Herc, but that was a comedic take on a pantheon.

If only the characterization could be consistent more, though...

[charliehustle415]

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with what the story was trying to do or did (the execution is a different beast). I just don't think it made sense on the premise of how they used Thor's name.

If only the characterization could be consistent more, though...

Beggers cant be choosers

[Frontier]

Beggers cant be choosers

I don't think it's wrong to want more consistency though. Late Aaron Thor doesn't feel like JMS Thor or even early Aaron Thor. It makes it feel less earned to some degree in my opinion.

I guess we can think of this as the dark ages of "hammer and mead" .

[JKtheMac]

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with what the story was trying to do or did (the execution is a different beast). I just don't think it made sense on the premise of how they used Thor's name.

That is an essential part of the premise. She has to be Thor for the story to serve the ideas he was choosing to explore. No other name would allow the story he was telling. Ultimately she was proven to be Thor by Malekith’s spell so again premise addressed. That’s how storytelling works. Reject the premise = Reject the story.

[Frontier]

That is an essential part of the premise. She has to be Thor for the story to serve the ideas he was choosing to explore. No other name would allow the story he was telling. Ultimately she was proven to be Thor by Malekith’s spell so again premise addressed. That’s how storytelling works. Reject the premise = Reject the story.

I mean, I've never said she wasn't Thor. When she transformed she basically was him as a woman since she seemed to be enthused with his essence and everything that entails when Mjolnir transformed her. That was the Thor persona.

That does not exist in a vacuum without the guy whose name is actually Thor.