Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[JKtheMac]

I have concluded to not care one bit what Aaron does with Thor and his mythos anymore

I'll happily wait till it's written to my liking if ever

It no longer bothers me because imo it's not a good enough version of the mythos or character to care about

You phrased that as if it is nothing to do with you, when in reality it is entirely to do with you and your own tastes. You are not fully owning your decision. You are claiming it was forced upon you, when it is a choice that only you can make.

[GodThor]

Don’t tell anyone, but the secret is that all comic book characters have to be identifiable as people, for people. Even alien raccoons or weird symbiotes. We are humans, and we respond to human stories. Stories about inhuman gods are best left to the horror writers.

notice "too much".

I'm perfectly fine if they are flawed but Aaron is taking this on a whole other level.

Not the way I read it. That reads to me like an unfounded criticism built upon the ideals of disgruntled fans. The text of the book does not assert anything of the sort. Some characters make these assertions but they are wrong. Importantly Jane herself never believed this. She asserted that Thor was the one true god of Thunder. She even wondered at her own abilities and why she was able to do what she could. Aaron was slowly building a theme that he is now continuing into the wider books. An idea that new individuals can become carried along by the archetypes that they wield. That the Thor archetype came with certain things that we don’t always associate with it, but were always there at the beginning of the story.

that's what you read.

I think me and a lot of posters see it completely opposite.

So presumably, now that Aaron is directly addressing this, and hinting at a deeper truth you are applauding the reintroduction of Cul? This very issue is beginning to delve into the relationship between Odin and Cul and is touching upon that choice Odin made. It even calls out the Fear Itself story in the text. The story is being built around these older stories. Or are you so set in your view that you believe writers change these things just to keep the fans happy?

first of all, I never liked the idea of Cul to begin with.

it was unnecessary addition to Thor's mythology.

Fear Itself run was, at least to me, below average run.

And again, this is being dealt with both thematically and with reference and reverence to the older stories. Fear Itself was the culmination of Tyrant Odin. Aaron is slowly rebuilding him. Now, after many years he is giving us the first glimpse of his inner conflict over this. He is setting Odin up to be a bigger player again. Possibly setting him up to become a martyr for Asgard.

if you think that Odin who is afraid to fight, is hiding behind his wife's skirt to fight his battles, was overly abusive to his kids and is drinking himself is to death (also, his fetish for hammers) is a way to rebuild him then I don't know what to say to you.

remember Original Sin??? he seemed a pretty caring father to me.

fun fact, Aaron wrote that.

That’s not what they have ever done before and you know it.

oh not that Ragnarok.

a type that reboots everything.

[JKtheMac]

if you think that Odin who is afraid to fight, is hiding behind his wife's skirt to fight his battles, was overly abusive to his kids and is drinking himself is to death (also, his fetish for hammers) is a way to rebuild him then I don't know what to say to you.

None of that is in the book. You are writing your own version of events and then criticising them as if they are what Aaron is writing.

remember Original Sin??? he seemed a pretty caring father to me.

I also remember all of the times right back to the Kirby and Lee days when he was not written as a good, caring father. BUT and I cant emphasize that but any more, Aaron is writing a sympathetic Odin. He isn't a monster he is a father. The things he is going through reflect the issues that many fathers face.

Sometimes people act badly because they care passionately and because they are trying to do the right thing but end up going about it in the wrong way. Sometimes people alienate themselves because they are going through difficult things. I have said it many times but I sympathise with Aaron's Odin.

oh not that Ragnarok.

a type that reboots everything.

If they wouldn't let Kirby do it they sure as hell won't let anyone else do it.

[GodThor]

None of that is in the book. You are writing your own version of events and then criticising them as if they are what Aaron is writing.

then we don't read the same comic because that's clearly what I see.

don't let me start with Thor...

I also remember all of the times right back to the Kirby and Lee days when he was not written as a good, caring father. BUT and I cant emphasize that but any more, Aaron is writing a sympathetic Odin. He isn't a monster he is a father. The things he is going through reflect the issues that many fathers face.

Sometimes people act badly because they care passionately and because they are trying to do the right thing but end up going about it in the wrong way. Sometimes people alienate themselves because they are going through difficult things. I have said it many times but I sympathise with Aaron's Odin.

well, good for you.

I'm glad someone enjoys it.

[JKtheMac]

then we don't read the same comic because that's clearly what I see.

don't let me start with Thor...


well, good for you.

I'm glad someone enjoys it.

And that is my entire point. An old geezer like myself that has been reading Thor since the late seventies can love it. That proves that the rhetoric of those who don't love it is just that. Empty rhetoric covering up for the fact that the current writer isn't to their personal tastes. You cant blame the writer. Aaron is just as much a comic fan as any of us. He's the writer you will find delving through back issue boxes at conventions when he gets a spare moment. Criticising him for your own tastes is counterproductive and wailing into the wind.

[Rosebunse]

And that is my entire point. An old geezer like myself that has been reading Thor since the late seventies can love it. That proves that the rhetoric of those who don't love it is just that. Empty rhetoric covering up for the fact that the current writer isn't to their personal tastes. You cant blame the writer. Aaron is just as much a comic fan as any of us. He's the writer you will find delving through back issue boxes at conventions when he gets a spare moment. Criticising him for your own tastes is counterproductive and wailing into the wind.

Peoplewho accuse Aaron of not being a fan are just angry. Aaron is totally a fan and that's part of what makes his stuff good. It's part of why I am so fine with what he's doing. This is his story, it is probably something he has wanted to write for a long time and it has a lot of basis in prior runs.

[GodThor]

And that is my entire point. An old geezer like myself that has been reading Thor since the late seventies can love it. That proves that the rhetoric of those who don't love it is just that. Empty rhetoric covering up for the fact that the current writer isn't to their personal tastes. You cant blame the writer. Aaron is just as much a comic fan as any of us. He's the writer you will find delving through back issue boxes at conventions when he gets a spare moment. Criticising him for your own tastes is counterproductive and wailing into the wind.

that's partially true but you cannot deny that Aaron's run was negatively received by majority of fans.

I don't remember people being so negative and vocal about Straczynski run or Dan Jurgens run (although back during Jurgen's run, forums weren't really active but it is considered to be one of the best).

it has good sales true but so did BvS movie but was largely considered to be bad.

it's not convenient that Aaron's run is scrutinized.

that means he is doing something wrong.

[JKtheMac]

that's partially true but you cannot deny that Aaron's run was negatively received by majority of fans.

Yes I can. Look around. The negative critics are the people that gravitate to the places they like to gather. They like their own silos. They hunker down and try and pretend their voice is the only one that matters. Aaron's Thor has been UNIVERSALLY PRAISED. Go and look at the places where actual people congregate. Not here. Not Comicvine. Not the people you like to follow on twitter. The real world where real people talk about how great Aaron's Thor run has been.

Here I get shouted down on a regular basis for liking Aaron's Thor. I can take it. Most fans just go elsewhere. They don't want to argue with you.

I don't remember people being so negative and vocal about Straczynski run or Dan Jurgens run (although back during Jurgen's run, forums weren't really active but it is considered to be one of the best).

The internet has a poor memory. If you look hard enough you will find people ripping both to shreds. Especially JMS. A very vocal minority hated his take on Thor. Even now they try and deny some of the things he did are canonical.

it has good sales true but so did BvS movie but was largely considered to be bad.

it's not convenient that Aaron's run is scrutinized.

that means he is doing something wrong.

If you get people arguing you are doing something right. The runs nobody talks about are the bad ones.


Even though I mention it on a regular basis nobody talks about Thor 475-484. Those terrible issues are canon but everyone apart from the writers get to pretend they don't exist.

[GodThor]

Yes I can. Look around. The negative critics are the people that gravitate to the places they like to gather. They like their own silos. They hunker down and try and pretend their voice is the only one that matters. Aaron's Thor has been UNIVERSALLY PRAISED. Go and look at the places where actual people congregate. Not here. Not Comicvine. Not the people you like to follow on twitter. The real world where real people talk about how great Aaron's Thor run has been.

so in other words, those who praise Aaron's run are the smartest people on the planet and knows what's good but those who don't like it are stupid asf and don't know anything???

because that's how it sounds like.

I'm offended tbh.

The internet has a poor memory. If you look hard enough you will find people ripping both to shreds. Especially JMS. A very vocal minority hated his take on Thor. Even now they try and deny some of the things he did are canonical.

ofc there are negatives in every run but NOT ON THIS SCALE.

everywhere I turn (Comic Vine, CBR, Youtube videos) negatives are way more than the previous ones.

it means people don't like it.

the real reason why people stay is because they have some faith left and hope that it will improve but it obviously doesn't for 4 years straight.

1. Odin is a tyrant with no wisdom even though he is a God of Wisdom (I still remember when he said something like The Sun!? I should have thought of that, I literally face palmed myself) not to mention he is severely underpowered with no explanation
2. Thor is a hammer addict, has no arm not to mention he was regulary drinking himself to oblivion when he lost his hammer and was getting PTSD
3. Mjölnir being sentient is one of the worst stuff ever and Odin not being able to lift it even though he personally created the enchantment and had no trouble with it in the past
4. Thor lost his name LMAO
5. Mjölnir being way better with Jane than with Thor (seriously)
6. Mjölnir being destroyed in the Sun was the epitome of bad writing
7. Jane being better at being a God than everyone

If you get people arguing you are doing something right. The runs nobody talks about are the bad ones.

that's an interesting irony.

[Daedra]

I have concluded to not care one bit what Aaron does with Thor and his mythos anymore

I'll happily wait till it's written to my liking if ever

It no longer bothers me because imo it's not a good enough version of the mythos or character to care about

good points, that's how I resolved to feel as well.

[kilderkin]

You phrased that as if it is nothing to do with you, when in reality it is entirely to do with you and your own tastes. You are not fully owning your decision. You are claiming it was forced upon you, when it is a choice that only you can make.

I claimed nothing more than how I feel, you are jumping to conclusions based on your inference nothing more

I said how I felt and pointed out it was my opinion, how is that not me "owning it" so to speak

I said written to my liking, how is that not saying this is just my taste on it

I have made it clear it was entirely how I feel, about my taste and it was imo

I never said nor implied anything was forced upon me

I say I'll ignore it because I accept I have the choice to not engage with it for the very fact it is not being forced upon me and that it is my choice to disengage

You are the one who looks to have jumped to conclusions based on your view , nothing more, I feel

Your apparent interpretation of what I said is very incorrect

[JKtheMac]

so in other words, those who praise Aaron's run are the smartest people on the planet and knows what's good but those who don't like it are stupid asf and don't know anything???

because that's how it sounds like.

I'm offended tbh.

No. You are doing it again. This is just a rhetorical stance. It is always going to be the case that people don’t like books. That’s personal taste. The problem is the way people don’t want to accept it is anything to do with them. It’s an external locus of control. Marvel don’t get to please everyone all of the time. Fans don’t get to enjoy every book. But there is no one true fandom. That’s a lie.

If you are offended by the truth that’s nobody’s fault. Own your tastes and don’t blame them on others.

[JKtheMac]

I claimed nothing more than how I feel, you are jumping to conclusions based on your inference nothing more

I said how I felt and pointed out it was my opinion, how is that not me "owning it" so to speak

I said written to my liking, how is that not saying this is just my taste on it

I have made it clear it was entirely how I feel, about my taste and it was imo

I never said nor implied anything was forced upon me

You are the one who has jumped to conclusions based on your view , nothing more, I feel

I am analysing your language. You could phrase it differently and I would be fine with it. I don’t really care if you like Aaron’s Thor. I do take issue with the way you express it.

[kilderkin]

I am analysing your language. You could phrase it differently and I would be fine with it. I don’t really care if you like Aaron’s Thor. I do take issue with the way you express it.

Okay, but you were still incorrect in your conclusion

I appreciate some, indeed a good lot, love this run

I am simply now fine to just ignore it untill the character and mythos are written in a way I would like, if that happens ever

I am past the point of disliking it as it is no longer important to me

I'll reiterate that is just my opinion and how I feel

As for anyone taking issue, well that's not really my issue to worry about, I can't guess how someone will feel

[GodThor]

Okay, but you were still incorrect in your conclusion

I appreciate some, indeed a good lot, love this run

I am simply now fine to just ignore it untill the character and mythos are written in a way I would like, if that happens ever

I am past the point of disliking it as it is no longer important to me

I'll reiterate that is just my opinion and how I feel

As for anyone taking issue, well that's not really my issue to worry about, I can't guess how someone will feel

I think this is the best stance.

I don't know how I got into this discussion now but whatever.