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  1. #2311
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I'd like a cliche redemptive arc over no meaningful redemptive arc whatsoever. But, in fairness, its hard to have a character redeem himself over the opinion of someone else.

    Thor defaulted back to his position, he did not reclaim it. Defaulting back isn't character development, nor a journey, but is a lack thereof.
    I think this is what was missing from War of The Realms, if Thor had a bit more character development and we were shown what he learned from his sacrifice to Yggdrasil, it would have given us some closure.
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 08-23-2019 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #2312
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Yeah I highly doubt the new writer will tackle the concept of worthiness especially because we have been ruminating about it for nearly a decade.

    I do hope that we kinda step away from having writers stay on for such a long time.

    I would love to see tight 12 - 24 issue runs, I feel writers end up meander if they are not given a issue count.
    As much as I have issue with how long Aaron stayed on board, I think a writer should stay on as long as they need to for the story they're trying to tell (unless editorial kicks them off).
    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    If Aaron wrote this the way people who criticise the run say he should’ve wrote it...the run would have been boring. He took big risks with the entirety of the “Unworthy” Thor and Jane. If he didn’t, there’d be nothing to talk about.

    I look forward to reading the run from start to finish. I’m sure there’s some good and there’s some bad. But that’s comics.
    It's Aaron. He would not have made it boring. That's why people like his work.

    I mean, beyond the cancer storyline, his depiction of Jane as Thor was as "safe" as could be, save for how she interacted with traditional Thor characters and how that reflected on the actual character of Thor.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We have often compared this story to Knightfall. It is interesting to note that in recent interviews the original plan for Knightfall was to totally move Batman off of the board. It was corporate interference that led to Bruce Wane’s frankly pointless arc. That wasn’t what the story was supposed to be about. It is the biggest reason why I don’t find Knightfall a satisfying story. I know fans love it, but it undercuts it’s own messages.
    I find that an ironic statement in light of Aaron's run on Thor.

    To be honest I don't see how Knightfall works without Bruce's arc. It was about a man getting broken, getting replaced by a warped version of himself, and then building himself back up into the man he needed to be again.

  3. #2313
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    DONNY CATES:
    https://twitter.com/Doncates/status/1072407063970701312
    https://twitter.com/Doncates/status/1131798158319718400
    https://twitter.com/Doncates/status/1114411641830084608

    ALSO DONNY CATES (AT 19:00)

    "My next new Marvel book is being announced next month. When I got to Marvel, there were two books that I wanted more than anything else, and that was Venom, and something else that I can't tell you because I just got it, been working on it for a while now. So, it's like a big deal, that one."




    ALSO ALSO DONNY CATES (In multiple places but most in that SyFy Wire interview): jason aaron is my god and thor is the best goddamn comic ever (PARAPHRASED)

    Haven't slept all night and now I'm Bleeding Cool without ads. *Sigh*
    Version with ads now available!

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/08...riter-on-thor/
    Dance games are my divine punishment from the Lord. May my furnace be forever fueled.

  4. #2314
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Hope you get a byline

  5. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    As much as I have issue with how long Aaron stayed on board, I think a writer should stay on as long as they need to for the story they're trying to tell (unless editorial kicks them off).

    It's Aaron. He would not have made it boring. That's why people like his work.

    I mean, beyond the cancer storyline, his depiction of Jane as Thor was as "safe" as could be, save for how she interacted with traditional Thor characters and how that reflected on the actual character of Thor.

    I find that an ironic statement in light of Aaron's run on Thor.

    To be honest I don't see how Knightfall works without Bruce's arc. It was about a man getting broken, getting replaced by a warped version of himself, and then building himself back up into the man he needed to be again.
    That’s funny! Same people who didn’t like “Knightfall” LOVE “Unworthy”?! Knightfall is the superior piece out of these two as it’s star came back GLORIOUSLY instead of a pale reflection of both his sucesor and the character he used to be!

  6. #2316
    You guessed it mr_crisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Yeah I highly doubt the new writer will tackle the concept of worthiness especially because we have been ruminating about it for nearly a decade.

    I do hope that we kinda step away from having writers stay on for such a long time.

    I would love to see tight 12 - 24 issue runs, I feel writers end up meander if they are not given a issue count.
    But with the whole writing for the trade you would get at least 2-4 stories.
    The Gypsies had no home. The Doors had no bass.

    Does our reality determine our fiction or does our fiction determine our reality?

    Whenever the question comes up about who some mysterious person is or who is behind something the answer will always be Frank Stallone.

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  7. #2317
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_crisp View Post
    But with the whole writing for the trade you would get at least 2-4 stories.
    There have been plenty of runs that was a single story that ran for 12-24 issues.

    Nevertheless, I think having multiple short stories tying into one larger plot would be great.

    I personally am tired of these extra long runs that fall apart by the end. In the beginning the stories are tight but as time goes on it starts to fray and completely unravel (for the most part).

  8. #2318
    Fantastic Member Wall-Crawler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    You'd think the fact that so many people - fans, critics, and pros - all revere Aaron's run would make some of the haters think "you know, this is probably good - it just isn't for me" rather than blindly continue to label it as "disrespectful" and so on. But, eh...whatever.
    Sure, because I can't have my own opinion and must blindly follow what other writers (who work for the same company anyway) say and think.
    Anyway, it's not like I'm an isolated opinion, you can see on forums EVERYWHERE that the majority of the fans do not like this run, and do not bring the argument of good sales because it has sold just as much as previous runs, it gets more buzz because of the publicity of being a woman who took the hammer, but it hasn't actually sold that well compared to other runs, it's done just about the same.

    Perhaps fans voicing their complaints in pretty much every forum one visits would make the supporters think "perhaps this run has really disrespected Thor's character, I should try to see their point of view" and so on. But eh...whatever.
    Last edited by Wall-Crawler; 08-23-2019 at 10:16 PM.

  9. #2319
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Oh snap, so ANAD was after Jane? I always thought it was concurrent, at this point in my comic reading I was only reading DC, so forgive my ignorance.

    True, Jane was and is selfless, but so is every other Marvel hero; even Unworthy Thor. So, for me Jane's worthiness is still very opaque because Thor was Worthy and Godly, but Jane was human and selfless?

    So, going back to basics failed? Was this the "Marvel Legacy" era?
    I would guess even fans of the run accept the “unworthiness” aspect doesn’t have any strong logic behind it?

    We are supposed to believe that after a couple of thousand years of being able to lift the hammer, one day Thor can’t...not because his behaviour has changed..but because Fury asks him a question and he doubts himself..

    So that assumes the hammer is judging self confidence, not “worthiness”...

    Except along comes Jane...who should have have zilch reason to be confident in lifting the hammer. And lifts it...so now it is about worthiness!

    Jane is a good person. But so is Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Aunt May...and a few thousand other Marvel chraracters..

    There is no logic underpinning Jane lifting the hammer, that makes real sense of her lifting it, when many others can’t.

    Does it matter? For me..it did a bit.

  10. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Saying Aaron's Thor run is "dog shit" in the face of its success and acceptance on so many fronts is as ridiculous as saying Ewing's Immortal Hulk run is dog shit.
    Yeah who would ever call a top-selling, well-reviewed run on a comic book shit just because they don't like it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Tom King's run on Batman is a shitstain.
    You complete and utter hypocrite.

  11. #2321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha to Omega View Post
    Yeah who would ever call a top-selling, well-reviewed run on a comic book shit just because they don't like it?



    You complete and utter hypocrite.
    EXCELLENT!!! Make em eat their words!!! Hahahaha!!!! That’s why nothing him and others say can ever be trusted. Nothing but band wagoners that go the way the wind blows......

  12. #2322
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest I don't see how Knightfall works without Bruce's arc. It was about a man getting broken, getting replaced by a warped version of himself, and then building himself back up into the man he needed to be again.
    It was only that because of interference. It could have been more like Superior Spider-Man, a take on what Batman would be under different circumstances and with different morality, while exploring how the various cast members would cope with the changes and what this all says about who Batman is and isn’t.

    You know, a bit like Jane as Thor, so in other words you wouldn’t have enjoyed it as much but I would have liked it more.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  13. #2323
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wall-Crawler View Post
    Anyway, it's not like I'm an isolated opinion, you can see on forums EVERYWHERE that the majority of the fans do not like this run,
    No you can’t see anything of the sort. Even in the places that appears to be true, they are a handful of self selected readers. How is that representative of “most fans”? There are equally places you will find almost universal praise from fans where they choose to do more than moan and instead actively review the books on their merits.

    All we can say is a very popular book has some loud dissenting voices against it. That would describe every popular book these days.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-24-2019 at 06:11 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  14. #2324
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I would guess even fans of the run accept the “unworthiness” aspect doesn’t have any strong logic behind it?

    We are supposed to believe that after a couple of thousand years of being able to lift the hammer, one day Thor can’t...not because his behaviour has changed..but because Fury asks him a question and he doubts himself..

    So that assumes the hammer is judging self confidence, not “worthiness”...

    Except along comes Jane...who should have have zilch reason to be confident in lifting the hammer. And lifts it...so now it is about worthiness!

    Jane is a good person. But so is Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Aunt May...and a few thousand other Marvel chraracters..

    There is no logic underpinning Jane lifting the hammer, that makes real sense of her lifting it, when many others can’t.

    Does it matter? For me..it did a bit.
    I know you say you got around to reading this, but you seem to be making a lot of claims about the book that are not representative of what actually transpired. Like for example claiming the hammer is judging confidence, it isn’t, and that it’s about Thor doubting himself, which it isn’t.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  15. #2325
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Oh snap, so ANAD was after Jane? I always thought it was concurrent, at this point in my comic reading I was only reading DC, so forgive my ignorance.

    True, Jane was and is selfless, but so is every other Marvel hero; even Unworthy Thor. So, for me Jane's worthiness is still very opaque because Thor was Worthy and Godly, but Jane was human and selfless?

    So, going back to basics failed? Was this the "Marvel Legacy" era?
    We are still in the Legacy era technically but the early attempt of Legacy to assert classic characters with standardised outlooks and maintain Legacy numbering was a failure.

    Look at the recent direction in the MU. We are back to a whole slew of female focused books being launched, some younger focused books, new and innovative status quo choices for classic characters and generally a return to what so many retailers were claiming didn’t sell. Except this time they know that the alternative did worse.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

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