Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[WaxHawk]

I am a long time comic reader but haven't spent much time reading Thor. To me he was a wish fulfilment character that didn't match my wish. Aaron, to me, has made him flawed, nuanced. And I am a sucker for a good redemption story and Thor's has/had potential to be a good one.

I used to pour over every panel with Odinson in them during Jane's reign looking for signs of how it would happen. When Thor rather rapidly got his name back I was looking forward to seeing his reaction to getting his name back and further exploration of worthiness. I didn't get that. I guess Aaron wanted to write lighter stories for a while. After 4 issues I decided to trade wait like everything else. I expect he'll get back to some of what I want later.

Making War of the Realms a big huge event killed my interest in that plot.

I completely get fans who have Thor as a wish fulfilment character being frustrated. It has been a long haul for them.

Finally, there is something that bugs me that I have never gotten a good answer to. The Name. What came first - was he named Thor or the enchantment on Mjolnir? (There will be follow up questions which ever way it goes).

Thanks in advance.ī

[GodThor]

I am a long time comic reader but haven't spent much time reading Thor. To me he was a wish fulfilment character that didn't match my wish. Aaron, to me, has made him flawed, nuanced. And I am a sucker for a good redemption story and Thor's has/had potential to be a good one.

I used to pour over every panel with Odinson in them during Jane's reign looking for signs of how it would happen. When Thor rather rapidly got his name back I was looking forward to seeing his reaction to getting his name back and further exploration of worthiness. I didn't get that. I guess Aaron wanted to write lighter stories for a while. After 4 issues I decided to trade wait like everything else. I expect he'll get back to some of what I want later.

Making War of the Realms a big huge event killed my interest in that plot.

I completely get fans who have Thor as a wish fulfilment character being frustrated. It has been a long haul for them.

Finally, there is something that bugs me that I have never gotten a good answer to. The Name. What came first - was he named Thor or the enchantment on Mjolnir? (There will be follow up questions which ever way it goes).

Thanks in advance.ī

Thor is his birth name.

[Panic]

Wikipedia would call your ‘Batman beat up Superman so he ended up more popular’ theory original research. I just don’t believe a word of it. Those who actually enjoyed The Dark Knight Returns at the time, (I hated it then and still do) were not taking away that Batman beat up Superman, they took away a dark, gritty and frankly broken Batman with dark and complex psychological scars. A Batman that was prepared to externalise that darkness and use it to maintain order based on fear.

It’s a Batman aimed at adolescent boys and adults that want ‘serious comics’ but equate serious with challenging and violent. Darth Vader in a cowl. A Batman I have never liked because I don’t recognise him. DC tried to pull some of these aspects into continuity to increase the popularity of their character and it worked. So now we have a Batman stuck in a world of grief and externalised anger, who can’t really relate to his friends. That isn’t Batman for those of us who remember him in the seventies. That’s a Batman inspired by cocaine and leather jackets. It is the Batman parodied in The Lego Movie.

TDKR led to DC redefining Batman from "the world's greatest detective" to essentially "the world's greatest bad-ass", and it's why Batman has to beat down Superman (or other heroes - there's a fantastically stupid one where he takes on members of the Justice League which really is the BatGod run riot) every so often to maintain his credibility. I think it's eye-rolling, but there you are.

I can only repeat what I always say. Wait and see. If you dig into the structure of the story it is obvious what is going on, but for those who like to just enjoy stories as they read them they will need to be patient. I can guarantee that Thor will be on top. Now let’s not equate that with this weird ‘intelligent’ Thor that fandom here seems to want. Nobody wants that outside of the rarified world of “my character is better than your character” world of fandom. Most are perfectly happy with the way he is being portrayed in Avengers for example. Sure in his own book he will have warrior smarts and appropriate intuitions, just like he has always had. He hasn’t been portrayed as an idiot, he has been portrayed as a drepressed and self absorbed guy going through some difficult times. If you don’t like warrior Thor I have no idea why you like him at all. That’s pretty much his default setting throughout the decades. You seem to want a character that has never really existed.

I know you've read Lee/Kirby Thor, and he is intelligent there, as in other runs (though none recently). Lee portrayed Thor as occasionally hot-headed, proud, obsessed by honour, and something of a drama queen at times as he took himself and his responsibilities very seriously; but he was portrayed as smart. As I have said before, a reader-stand-in who is stupider than the reader is generally frustrating. Even supporting characters who start off as stupid and not-so-capable will become smarter and more capable as the audience grows to like them, it is the natural direction for these things to take.

You are not just seeing things differently here you are not reading the story as it was written. Perhaps due to resistance to the delivery method you are entirely missing the whole message. You have constructed an entire narrative in your fantasies about the movie for starters.

Ha, perhaps I have. People often do ascribe their own theories to stories written by others, and then are surprised when others don't see the same things as they do.

[WaxHawk]

Thor is his birth name.

Hard to not be sarcastic to that.

I know it is his birth name. My question was what came first.

[Panic]

Hard to not be sarcastic to that.

I know it is his birth name. My question was what came first.

I get what you're asking, but my memory of it is very murky. The inscription about "Whosoever is worthy to lift the hammer will posses the power of Thor", or however it reads, I think was originally supposed to have been put there by Odin for Thor after he became Blake. In the Lee/Kirby back-up Tales of Asgard Odin wields the hammer before Thor's birth, and when Thor is young Thor struggles to become worthy to lift the hammer (deeds of valour seemingly grant him increased strength... it's weird) , which suggests that there is some "worthy" enchantment, but they don't show the inscription in those issues, and it would be weird for the hammer to have Thor's name on it even before his birth. More than that, "the power of Thor" in the Blake era included things like Thor's strength, which actually comes from his genetic inheritance, so it wouldn't make sense for the hammer to grant that at that time.

Honestly, it's all a bit of a muddle. Stan and Jack were winging it in the early years.

[GodThor]

Hard to not be sarcastic to that.

I know it is his birth name. My question was what came first.

well, Thor was trying to be worthy of the hammer back during Viking age (hell, even before that).

so the enchantment came first but it's really weird.

[GodThor]

"Are you breaking up with me?"

Yeah...not a high point for Hela .

for a Goddess who is hundreds of thousand years old to act like that...

completely our of character.

but I guess when it comes to characterization of the Gods, Aaron is really good.

[Prof. Warren]

Wikipedia would call your ‘Batman beat up Superman so he ended up more popular’ theory original research. I just don’t believe a word of it. Those who actually enjoyed The Dark Knight Returns at the time, (I hated it then and still do) were not taking away that Batman beat up Superman, they took away a dark, gritty and frankly broken Batman with dark and complex psychological scars. A Batman that was prepared to externalise that darkness and use it to maintain order based on fear.

It’s a Batman aimed at adolescent boys and adults that want ‘serious comics’ but equate serious with challenging and violent. Darth Vader in a cowl. A Batman I have never liked because I don’t recognise him. DC tried to pull some of these aspects into continuity to increase the popularity of their character and it worked. So now we have a Batman stuck in a world of grief and externalised anger, who can’t really relate to his friends. That isn’t Batman for those of us who remember him in the seventies. That’s a Batman inspired by cocaine and leather jackets. It is the Batman parodied in The Lego Movie.

Yes, agreed on all counts. Especially "It’s a Batman aimed at adolescent boys and adults that want 'serious comics' but equate serious with challenging and violent."

TDKR ultimately killed Batman for me. While I did enjoy the series as it came out for its style and audacity, the fact that its popularity led DC to graft Miller's take on Batman onto the current continuity eventually made him into a never-ending parody of Miller's sociopathic Dark Knight. When I see stuff like Batman Damned, I can only roll my eyes. I can't believe anyone takes this nonsense seriously. It plays like unintentional satire to me.

Because of my affection for the character, I do occasionally try to get into the current stuff - and occasionally some of it is kinda/sorta ok for what it is - but Batman is so far from how he was depicted prior to TDKR and is so one-note now that I can only shrug and revisit my back issues if I want to read "my" Batman.

[TheCape]

Out of curiosity, how was Aaron portrayal of Thor before Jane came along in vol 4.

[XPac]

Hard to not be sarcastic to that.

I know it is his birth name. My question was what came first.

It actually wouldn't be that shocking if some people wondered whether or not Thor was his birth name or some sort of title, considering Thor lost his name to Jane when he lost his hammer.

It's not like Falcon started calling himself Steve when he became Captain America. Thor should theoretically still be Thor with or without the hammer, but for some reason it didn't work that way.

[GodThor]

Out of curiosity, how was Aaron portrayal of Thor before Jane came along in vol 4.

he was well written during Gorr the God Butcher arc and Last Days of Midgard.

btw, what's that avatar???

it looks familiar.

[TheCape]

he was well written during Gorr the God Butcher arc and Last Days of Midgard.

btw, what's that avatar???

it looks familiar.

So the current and less sophisticated Odinson (that in my opinion resemble more to Herc) is something that only came after Jane?

Is a fanart of Hope and Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII. I like the pairing, controversial as it is.

[GodThor]

So the current and less sophisticated Odinson (that in my opinion resemble more to Herc) is something that only came after Jane?

it came when he lost his arm and his hammer.

Is a fanart of Hope and Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII. I like the pairing, controversial as it is.

Lightning is a bae

but damn, that ship is soooo controversial xd

[TheCape]

it came when he lost his arm and his hammer.


Lightning is a bae

but damn, that ship is soooo controversial xd

Just when he is not the main characther anymore huh?, i suspected it, is a pitty that Aaron seems to be "rebooting" (for the lack of a better work0 the character with this.

I have my reasons, usually is not the kind of ship that i would support, but yeah no doubt about the controversial part lol.

[WaxHawk]

I get what you're asking, but my memory of it is very murky. The inscription about "Whosoever is worthy to lift the hammer will posses the power of Thor", or however it reads, I think was originally supposed to have been put there by Odin for Thor after he became Blake. In the Lee/Kirby back-up Tales of Asgard Odin wields the hammer before Thor's birth, and when Thor is young Thor struggles to become worthy to lift the hammer (deeds of valour seemingly grant him increased strength... it's weird) , which suggests that there is some "worthy" enchantment, but they don't show the inscription in those issues, and it would be weird for the hammer to have Thor's name on it even before his birth. More than that, "the power of Thor" in the Blake era included things like Thor's strength, which actually comes from his genetic inheritance, so it wouldn't make sense for the hammer to grant that at that time.

Honestly, it's all a bit of a muddle. Stan and Jack were winging it in the early years.

Thanks Panic. Maybe I haven't missed anything. To me it is an intriguing question which could have cool ramifications whichever way it goes. I hope a writer explores it one day.