Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[GodThor]

She used this name in bendis last guardians book iirc

yeah, probably.

[JKtheMac]

I could not agree more. Nothing undermines the whole 'If they be worthy, wield the power of Thor' clause in the hammer, then making that power someone/something else's entirely.

Awfully polite though, for that power to still put Jane in a Thor costume

Actually most of Thor continuity undermines “if they be worthy” so I wouldn’t worry about that.

@panic. Nowhere in any book does Mjolnir choose Jane over Odinson.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Actually most of Thor continuity undermines “if they be worthy” so I wouldn’t worry about that.

@panic. Nowhere in any book does Mjolnir choose Jane over Odinson.

You miss my point.

Until Aaron, the power in the hammer, was Thor's.

Aaron changed that, undermining Thor's mythos.

[kilderkin]

You miss my point.

Until Aaron, the power in the hammer, was Thor's.

Aaron changed that, undermining Thor's mythos.

I was very irritated by the god storm idea, even just mjolnir being a prison for it

Not to my liking at all

[Frontier]

I will be very surprised if the Mother Storm concept sticks around beyond Aaron.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I will be very surprised if the Mother Storm concept sticks around beyond Aaron.

It's already gone, remember? Thor channeled it to save Jane IIRC.

IMO, Aaron did that to keep later writers from retconning it out. Ideally, a later writer will do it regardless

[JKtheMac]

You miss my point.

Until Aaron, the power in the hammer, was Thor's.

Aaron changed that, undermining Thor's mythos.

Well if I missed your point that didn’t clarify it. Could you explain?

It's already gone, remember? Thor channeled it to save Jane IIRC.

IMO, Aaron did that to keep later writers from retconning it out. Ideally, a later writer will do it regardless

If Mjolnir time travels it will technically be back again.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Well if I missed your point that didn’t clarify it. Could you explain?

The power of the hammer is Thor's and his alone. He's not Green Lantern channeling a power ring. He's Superman and his power comes from him.

By making the Mother Storm the power of the hammer, it takes from Thor. It lessons his mythos, and atop of what Aaron's already done (taking the worthiness, the virtue signalling), it undermines his character and concept.

[charliehustle415]

The power of the hammer is Thor's and his alone. He's not Green Lantern channeling a power ring. He's Superman and his power comes from him.

By making the Mother Storm the power of the hammer, it takes from Thor. It lessons his mythos, and atop of what Aaron's already done (taking the worthiness, the virtue signalling), it undermines his character and concept.

You know I never thought of it in this way and when you put it this way it does beg the question of where does Aaron's version of Thor's power actually come from?

Though I am curious if his power is controlling the Mother Storm, but then that in itself opens up a can of worms of Thors inability to control the Mother Storm simply because he doubts himself.

Aaron adding the Mother Storm aspect to Mjolnir does greatly de-power Thor, damn dude, this opens an entirely new perspective of Aaron's Thor to me.

[JKtheMac]

The power of the hammer is Thor's and his alone. He's not Green Lantern channeling a power ring. He's Superman and his power comes from him.

By making the Mother Storm the power of the hammer, it takes from Thor. It lessons his mythos, and atop of what Aaron's already done (taking the worthiness, the virtue signalling), it undermines his character and concept.

You could only say this if it had never been demonstrated before. Aaron was not the first writer to show that powers were either enhanced or granted by lifting the hammer. The whole point of the run is to mirror the status quo before the Lee & Kirby retcon, draws on Simonson and to some extent JMS.

Like I said this seems a very strange thing to be upset about, especially as Aaron went out of his way to demonstrate Thor has his own powers and that the only reason he couldn’t weild them perfectly was his own inner turmoil and doubts.

Many of these kinds of objections feel very much after the fact. Instead of accepting the premise and the way the writer explains it, some seem to reject the premise out of hand, come up with their own extra-textual objections, and then reject the writer’s own explanations.

If as some did, we rejected the idea of Beta-Ray Bill lifting the hammer, we could spend the whole of Simonson’s run sniping from the sidelines too. Why though? What is the point?

[JKtheMac]

You know I never thought of it in this way and when you put it this way it does beg the question of where does Aaron's version of Thor's power actually come from?

Though I am curious if his power is controlling the Mother Storm, but then that in itself opens up a can of worms of Thors inability to control the Mother Storm simply because he doubts himself.

Aaron adding the Mother Storm aspect to Mjolnir does greatly de-power Thor, damn dude, this opens an entirely new perspective of Aaron's Thor to me.

It seems pretty clear that Thor has powers independently of Mjölnir, given that he is currently pretty powerful. It is also clear that the worthiness criteria is nothing to do with the storm. So an inability to control the storm appears to be a separate issue that so far we have only seen Odin and perhaps to some extent Old King Thor exhibit. As we have seen no evidence of this storm before it stands to reason that for most of it’s existence it has lain dormant.

The transformation magic appears to be a part of Odin’s enchantment still, so Jane gets her powers from that, not the storm itself. The question is, did Odin’s enchantment somehow allow the weirder to also draw on the storm. We don’t really know a lot about that enchantment because it’s logic has been twisted at least three times prior to Aaron.

[WaxHawk]

During a run, the future we see has to make sense. That future is going to happen unless something changes it. It is not automatically an alternative universe, no matter how much some fans want to make grand time travel theories for every eventuality. I don't expect this future to be wiped out for a very long time because it is so far into
I think Jane will be back for the final battle, as any important character should be. Whether she is wielding a hammer and acting as a goddess is up for grabs. As I said, it would make sense for her to die. She comes back because she isn't ready to die, and of course she was called back. A writer needs to make that pay off in some way. Yes it could be as an ongoing hero, but it could equally be for a climactic death.

I think it is more likely that Odin will die (or at least removed away). Thor has been trying to be worthy in both Odin's eye and Mjolnir. Mjolnir is 'dead', if Odin was gone as well it would make sense to free Thor for his journey to 'true worthiness' (whatever that may be).

[JKtheMac]

I think it is more likely that Odin will die (or at least removed away). Thor has been trying to be worthy in both Odin's eye and Mjolnir. Mjolnir is 'dead', if Odin was gone as well it would make sense to free Thor for his journey to 'true worthiness' (whatever that may be).

While I think it is a possibility, I doubt we would see him die before Thor regains his worthiness.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You could only say this if it had never been demonstrated before. Aaron was not the first writer to show that powers were either enhanced or granted by lifting the hammer. The whole point of the run is to mirror the status quo before the Lee & Kirby retcon, draws on Simonson and to some extent JMS.

Like I said this seems a very strange thing to be upset about, especially as Aaron went out of his way to demonstrate Thor has his own powers and that the only reason he couldn’t weild them perfectly was his own inner turmoil and doubts.

Many of these kinds of objections feel very much after the fact. Instead of accepting the premise and the way the writer explains it, some seem to reject the premise out of hand, come up with their own extra-textual objections, and then reject the writer’s own explanations.

If as some did, we rejected the idea of Beta-Ray Bill lifting the hammer, we could spend the whole of Simonson’s run sniping from the sidelines too. Why though? What is the point?

Again, you miss my point.

I know that powers were granted by lifting the hammer. Duh.

My point is that the power inside of the hammer, until Aaron's, was always Thor's power. His strength, weather control, etc. His power being granted to anyone who might be worthy.

As for developing Thor's powers outside of the hammer, I don't see Aaron doing much of that besides some lip service really. The last Thor movie did more, really.

[JKtheMac]

Again, you miss my point.

I know that powers were granted by lifting the hammer. Duh.

My point is that the power inside of the hammer, until Aaron's, was always Thor's power. His strength, weather control, etc. His power being granted to anyone who might be worthy.

As for developing Thor's powers outside of the hammer, I don't see Aaron doing much of that besides some lip service really. The last Thor movie did more, really.

No you are taking one very specific view of the enchantment that does not hold true for much of Thor continuity.

Thor is currently flying, using lightning etc. Do you deny that? Part of this is because Odin is enchanting his hammers. He was wielding some of his power before these new hammers. They are clearly helping him focus his power. Where did I say Aaron was ‘developing’ Thor’s powers?

There is a big difference between missing your point and not thinking your point is a valid one in the light of continuity. It is equally wrong to take the stance that before Aaron these things were tidy or made a lot of sense.

P.S. the movies made a stupid choice and removed Blake aside from lip service. If you think that is better I don’t know what to say.