Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[theoneandonly]

the MCU movies have always disregarded the secret identity trope. in that scenario it would not have made sense for thor to have a secret or otherwise mortal identity when they could concentrate on building the world of Asgard instead of limiting thor to the mortal realm.

[JKtheMac]

the MCU movies have always disregarded the secret identity trope. in that scenario it would not have made sense for thor to have a secret or otherwise mortal identity when they could concentrate on building the world of Asgard instead of limiting thor to the mortal realm.

Rejecting Blake rejects Thor's perspective of humanity. That need not have been a secret identity issue. Indeed we have just had a perfectly good example in Captain Marvel, a comic book legacy that Thor technically belongs to, how it could have been handled differently.

Aaron's Jane story reminds those of us that believe in this perspective, that it matters greatly.

Even with that, it was a disaster to apply synergy between Fraction's Thor and the movie, which effectively left us in an even bigger mess than Roy Thomas did and to be frank Simonson technically did before him, and Lee and kirby did even earlier. And, I speak as a fan of the gloriously messy history of comics.

[Panic]

Rejecting Blake rejects Thor's perspective of humanity. That need not have been a secret identity issue. Indeed we have just had a perfectly good example in Captain Marvel, a comic book legacy that Thor technically belongs to, how it could have been handled differently.

The most likely reason for not including Blake in the films is that it would have meant Hemsworth sharing the star role with another actor. For Shazam it is a big selling point because of the "Big" contrast, for Thor having one white male adult actor who becomes another white male adult actor would have been less of a selling point, more of a problem. And I say that as someone who loves secret identities.

Aaron's Jane story reminds those of us that believe in this perspective, that it matters greatly.

Part of what several of us have been complaining about from Aaron's run, and before it, is the way Thor has been increasing portrayed as someone who hadn't spent years as a contemporary mortal man. Though Blake is gone Thor still has those memories and experiences, or should have. Aaron, much like other writers recently, have deliberately ignored this.

[JKtheMac]

Part of what several of us have been complaining about from Aaron's run, and before it, is the way Thor has been increasing portrayed as someone who hadn't spent years as a contemporary mortal man. Though Blake is gone Thor still has those memories and experiences, or should have. Aaron, much like other writers recently, have deliberately ignored this.

Are you one hundred percent clear that some of that isn't about her not being a man at all?

Thor actually doesn't necessarily have these memories. There is no real consensus on this. Jurgens seemed to think so, but he got quite a few details wrong. Personally, on the balance of evidence I suspect much like any layman Thor doesn't even know how to take somebody's pulse without potential errors. Only fans ever bring this up and broadly all writers should ignore them on that.

[Panic]

Are you one hundred percent clear that some of that isn't about her not being a man at all?

Pretty sure, thank you very much. You'll find me fairly consistent with how I feel about legacy characters, "copycat" characters, and my opinions about boosting one hero at the expense of another. Are you sure this sudden gender deflection isn't because I've just pointed out Aaron has been ignoring Thor's human perspective, something that you feel diminishes the character?

Thor actually doesn't necessarily have these memories. There is no real consensus on this. Jurgens seemed to think so, but he got quite a few details wrong. Personally, on the balance of evidence I suspect much like any layman Thor doesn't even know how to take somebody's pulse without potential errors. Only fans ever bring this up and broadly all writers should ignore them on that.

There aren't any good reasons why he shouldn't have Blake's memories as he had them as Thor; if he doesn't have them it is because the writer doesn't want him to have them. Physical skills... that's a bit different. Thor changed back to Blake in the Avengers Korvac Saga aftermath so he could give medical aid, and that made sense as it was his human body that learned to do physical medical tasks - I'm not sure I'd trust Thor, even with Blake's consciousness, to know how hard to give chest compressions without doing damage. For that matter, though Thor should know how to drive, I'm not sure how smoothly he'd do it at first.

[JKtheMac]

Pretty sure, thank you very much. You'll find me fairly consistent with how I feel about legacy characters, "copycat" characters, and my opinions about boosting one hero at the expense of another. Are you sure this sudden gender deflection isn't because I've just pointed out Aaron has been ignoring Thor's human perspective, something that you feel diminishes the character?

I dont mean about your personal opionion. you were throwing your hat in with "several of us".

There aren't any good reasons why he shouldn't have Blake's memories as he had them as Thor; if he doesn't have them it is because the writer doesn't want him to have them. Physical skills... that's a bit different. Thor changed back to Blake in the Avengers Korvac Saga aftermath so he could give medical aid, and that made sense as it was his human body that learned to do physical medical tasks - I'm not sure I'd trust Thor, even with Blake's consciousness, to know how hard to give chest compressions without doing damage. For that matter, though Thor should know how to drive, I'm not sure how smoothly he'd do it at first.

There is one fundamental reason why Thor should not have Blake's memories. At the time he was occasionally Blake he didn't seem to have that full knowledge. Another pretty important reason is because his archetype is as a Norse god of thunder not an American doctor of medicine.

[Daedra]

....... his archetype is as a Norse god of thunder not an American doctor of medicine.

I know you disagree but that's exactly why it was cool

[juan678]

[The Cool Thatguy]

No you are taking one very specific view of the enchantment that does not hold true for much of Thor continuity.

Thor is currently flying, using lightning etc. Do you deny that? Part of this is because Odin is enchanting his hammers. He was wielding some of his power before these new hammers. They are clearly helping him focus his power. Where did I say Aaron was ‘developing’ Thor’s powers?

There is a big difference between missing your point and not thinking your point is a valid one in the light of continuity. It is equally wrong to take the stance that before Aaron these things were tidy or made a lot of sense.

P.S. the movies made a stupid choice and removed Blake aside from lip service. If you think that is better I don’t know what to say.

The hammer has acted like a focus in the past yes, but the power was always Thor's.

How is it better, exactly, that the power of the hammer belongs to someone/someone else entirety?

And while the movies were far from perfect, the loss of Blake did not mean the loss of character development with Thor.

[Frontier]

I was kind of bummed that they never once had Thor meet the real Donald Blake in the movies, but there was no way that was going to happen in Ragnarok .

[JKtheMac]

The hammer has acted like a focus in the past yes, but the power was always Thor's.

How is it better, exactly, that the power of the hammer belongs to someone/someone else entirety?

And while the movies were far from perfect, the loss of Blake did not mean the loss of character development with Thor.

You seem to me to be under the false assumption that somehow Thor's power was taken away from him. It wasn't. He just had difficulties accessing it because his connection to the storm was lessened by his mindset. This was clearly laid out in the story. Somebody else wielding the hammer and transforming into Thor is an entirely different issue and nothing to do with the power that resides within Thor. It wasn't transferred from him to her in any way. Presumably you don't like Beta-Ray Bill either. How dare Simonson show another character benefiting from the "power of Thor". Or anyone else in the long history of the comics that has picked up the hammer.

There was a reason that Aaron needed to choose somebody else to lift the hammer. He wanted to explore the original dual personality idea of Thor and tease out what made that important and interesting. Why that idea just refuses to go away is telling IMO. The better writers do seem to return to it.

The movie chooses to portray Thor as a powerful alien with little knowledge of Earth. Only recently has the idea of Asgardians being gods resurfaced, preferring the Arthur C Clark maxim of high tech seeming like magic. That might be an entertaining character, but it isn't the same character.

[JKtheMac]

I know you disagree but that's exactly why it was cool

Why what was cool? Thor was originally conceived as an analogue of Fawcett's Captain Marvel. Two personalities in one body. Since the retcon the most common way Thor recalls details is in broad outline, because to suggest that he was a single personality would cause other problems and change his more modern archetype.

When Roy Thomas returns to the conundrum to "tidy it up" he basically has the real Blake available for reference in a cave, allowing us to suppose that the times Thor was Blake he could tap into the real Doctor's full abilities and knowledge. That's pretty much the model now. Blake was a kind of remote automaton that tapped into a guy held in limbo, but who has since died. I am convinced that Jurgens never read that run, because he ignores a few of the key details of that status quo. He probably had free reign to apply his more Superman related ideals because Thor wasn't really selling.

I believe that JMS was trying to resurrect that supposedly dead human, but then movie synergy got in the way and Fraction reverted it all back to the Thomas model.

I know it would be confusing and frankly the retcon was horribly done, but I think everyone should read #479 before they start throwing accusations of writers doing it wrong. The editors no doubt make the writers read it and probably explain how they need some of those ideas reworked if Thor is to make any sense in the future. Aaron was mostly sidestepping the issues by exploring Jane instead of Blake.

[GodThor]

Thor looking badass in the new Endgame trailer.

Aaron should take notes.

[juan678]

[juan678]