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  1. #796
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    He wasnít comparing Jane to a depowered Odinson, so your objections are not addressing my point. He could equally have chosen to use Kincaid as his choice for his comparison. Indeed we know Jane wasnít chosen specifically, because there were other candidates in his mind when he was drafting his story. The story is about a mortal lifting the hammer and how that relates to Thor. In a way that was not explored when mortals have lifted the hammer before.
    I just personally don't think it relates in a way positive to Thor Odinson, at least in the way Aaron went about it.
    Simonsonís solution is just not as interesting as Aaronís for me. I like dysfunctional father Odin. Toxic masculinity was not as big a topic back in Simonsonís day, and comics reflect the real world and its issues. This is why many people drift away from comics. Sometimes they just want everything to stay the same, but the world changes and so do the comics that reflect it.
    I don't need a nicety-nice Allfather Odin but I prefer an Odin who has more of a mystique and grandeur to him, with flaws but someone who's heart and feelings for those around him is clearly in the right place and conflicts with his status as Allfather.

    Aaron's...is just kind of too "normal" for me, which is why I just don't find him interesting. All he is is bluster and flaws, not the stuff I find intriguing and interesting about Odin and not consistent with the position and role he has in the mythos.

    In my opinion of course.

  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Mainly because you know from debating all of these things with me before that we see them all very differently. I agree that we have already had all of those arguments and I don't really want to go back over them either.

    Although we didn't really talk about the tenth realm. That one I think we can agree on. It was clearly a fix to fit Angela in. When one of the most famous comic writers hands you one of their characters after a bitter court case with a rival, I guess you try and lever her in somehow. That is more editorial saying "fit this character in somehow".
    As I said, we've been here before

    I'm happy with amicable disagreement

  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    true.

    Aaron's Odin is shit.

    spoilers:
    just read WotR chapter 2 and I saw how pathetic Odin was once again.

    Thor got stomped by the giants.

    and the best part is, Jane became the All Mother of Asgard.

    I'm done with Aaron's BS.
    end of spoilers
    I've suggested before I feel some creative are working through some issues in their work

    I also accept I could be wrong and I don't mean to be rude or insensitive

    But I do think its true

  4. #799
    Mighty Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    He wasnít comparing Jane to a depowered Odinson, so your objections are not addressing my point.
    But Aaron has given us Thor in flashbacks, and he is much the same as Aaron writes the "depowered" Thor. Again, Aaron hasn't explored Thor Odinson, he's simply shaped him into the version he wants, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    He could equally have chosen to use Kincaid as his choice for his comparison. Indeed we know Jane wasnít chosen specifically, because there were other candidates in his mind when he was drafting his story. The story is about a mortal lifting the hammer and how that relates to Thor. In a way that was not explored when mortals have lifted the hammer before.
    And what he's shown us is that Thor isn't much without his hammer, whilst a mortal manages to be everything Thor was and more. And he's stretched this out across years.

    As others have said, the story of Jane with the hammer was actually quite compelling, but his short-changing of Thor and Odin has been pretty awful. Normally when a hero is separated from their weapon or power it is about reminding the reader that these things are not what makes them a hero, and it gives the writer a chance to show how clever, resourceful, and skilled the hero can be without his or her bag of tricks; Aaron has failed to do this to any meaningful extent.


    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    And this is where it is taste based. Not all of us raise Simonson up on a pedestal. Some of us donít like Simonsonís Odin and consider it out of character. YMWV

    Simonsonís solution is just not as interesting as Aaronís for me. I like dysfunctional father Odin.
    Indeed it is a question of taste. I think Odin is one of the most interesting mythological figures, being smart, mysterious, cunning... Aaron's Odin is a punching-bag of backwards values, and seems emblematic of Aaron's imo chauvinistic view of Asgard. I can't see this Odin staying at the top, he's just too stupid and unlikable to follow, which will mean him being replaced permanently, probably by a ruler more like Simonson's Odin - because you need someone the reader respects if the hero is to follow their lead. There just isn't much mileage to be got out of Aaron's Odin.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Toxic masculinity was not as big a topic back in Simonsonís day, and comics reflect the real world and its issues. This is why many people drift away from comics. Sometimes they just want everything to stay the same, but the world changes and so do the comics that reflect it.
    Readers drift away from comics for a variety of reasons, suggesting Odin had to be dumbed-down into Aaron's version to be relevant is a big reach. Readers want the things they like to stay the same or get better - one of the reasons Simonson's Odin is popular with many in this thread is that he's an upgrade from Lee's version, with more mystery and magic to him.

  5. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    But Aaron has given us Thor in flashbacks, and he is much the same as Aaron writes the "depowered" Thor. Again, Aaron hasn't explored Thor Odinson, he's simply shaped him into the version he wants, imo.And what he's shown us is that Thor isn't much without his hammer, whilst a mortal manages to be everything Thor was and more. And he's stretched this out across years.

    As others have said, the story of Jane with the hammer was actually quite compelling, but his short-changing of Thor and Odin has been pretty awful. Normally when a hero is separated from their weapon or power it is about reminding the reader that these things are not what makes them a hero, and it gives the writer a chance to show how clever, resourceful, and skilled the hero can be without his or her bag of tricks; Aaron has failed to do this to any meaningful extent.



    Indeed it is a question of taste. I think Odin is one of the most interesting mythological figures, being smart, mysterious, cunning... Aaron's Odin is a punching-bag of backwards values, and seems emblematic of Aaron's imo chauvinistic view of Asgard. I can't see this Odin staying at the top, he's just too stupid and unlikable to follow, which will mean him being replaced permanently, probably by a ruler more like Simonson's Odin - because you need someone the reader respects if the hero is to follow their lead. There just isn't much mileage to be got out of Aaron's Odin.

    Readers drift away from comics for a variety of reasons, suggesting Odin had to be dumbed-down into Aaron's version to be relevant is a big reach. Readers want the things they like to stay the same or get better - one of the reasons Simonson's Odin is popular with many in this thread is that he's an upgrade from Lee's version, with more mystery and magic to him.
    I agree with you entirely

    I've seen little in Aaron's work on the mythos, especially Thor and Odin which isn't destructive, not deconstruction, destruction, imo

    Away from those two there's been some points of interest, Jane with the hammer for a while was interesting, but very few for me have been constructive, most have imo required other aspects to be broken first

    Imo very poor storytelling and handling of the mythos generally imo

    And I do say that with some venom I have to admit
    Last edited by kilderkin; 04-17-2019 at 11:54 AM.

  6. #801
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    "And what he's shown us is that Thor isn't much without his hammer, whilst a mortal manages to be everything Thor was and more. And he's stretched this out across years.

    As others have said, the story of Jane with the hammer was actually quite compelling, but his short-changing of Thor and Odin has been pretty awful. Normally when a hero is separated from their weapon or power it is about reminding the reader that these things are not what makes them a hero, and it gives the writer a chance to show how clever, resourceful, and skilled the hero can be without his or her bag of tricks; Aaron has failed to do this to any meaningful extent. "


    You absolutely nailed it, excellent.

  7. #802
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    true.

    Aaron's Odin is shit.

    spoilers:
    just read WotR chapter 2 and I saw how pathetic Odin was once again.

    Thor got stomped by the giants.

    and the best part is, Jane became the All Mother of Asgard.

    I'm done with Aaron's BS.
    end of spoilers
    Sorry, Odin was bloody awesome in this issue of WotR. What were you reading?

  8. #803
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Indeed it is a question of taste. I think Odin is one of the most interesting mythological figures, being smart, mysterious, cunning... Aaron's Odin is a punching-bag of backwards values, and seems emblematic of Aaron's imo chauvinistic view of Asgard. I can't see this Odin staying at the top, he's just too stupid and unlikable to follow, which will mean him being replaced permanently, probably by a ruler more like Simonson's Odin - because you need someone the reader respects if the hero is to follow their lead. There just isn't much mileage to be got out of Aaron's Odin.
    Odin might be interesting in the myths but he is a mystery too. And he certainly wasn’t some all powerful benevolent figure.

  9. #804
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Sorry, Odin was bloody awesome in this issue of WotR. What were you reading?
    incredible bad fan fiction.

    is it just me or you can't accept other people's opinions???
    Last edited by GodThor; 04-17-2019 at 01:02 PM.

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    incredible bad fan fiction.

    is it just me or you can't accept other people's opinion's???
    Don't worry, it's not just you haha.

  11. #806
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    incredible bad fan fiction.

    is it just me or you can't accept other people's opinions???
    I find it hard to believe that you have been moaning about how ineffectual he is, and then when despite being beaten mostly to death by his son and expending the last spark of his magic on his plan with Cul, and despite being stabbed multiple times by assassins, he acts like this. I can’t remember him ever being more heroic and you are still unsatisfied. It may be a difference of opinion but that difference is so huge I am incredulous to the point I can’t quite believe you read the same issue.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 04-17-2019 at 02:51 PM.

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    But Aaron has given us Thor in flashbacks, and he is much the same as Aaron writes the "depowered" Thor. Again, Aaron hasn't explored Thor Odinson, he's simply shaped him into the version he wants, imo.And what he's shown us is that Thor isn't much without his hammer, whilst a mortal manages to be everything Thor was and more. And he's stretched this out across years.

    As others have said, the story of Jane with the hammer was actually quite compelling, but his short-changing of Thor and Odin has been pretty awful. Normally when a hero is separated from their weapon or power it is about reminding the reader that these things are not what makes them a hero, and it gives the writer a chance to show how clever, resourceful, and skilled the hero can be without his or her bag of tricks; Aaron has failed to do this to any meaningful extent.
    I honestly can't tell if this is a story about Thor getting over his obsession with hammers or reinforcing his obsession with hammers. None of which he has ever had before...

    I think there's enough evidence for both "mission statements."

    And I just really do not care for young Thor anymore. He was fine in the opening arc but now when there's less of a distinction between him and present-day Thor he just seems to be the main starting point for how Aaron envisions the male Thor moreso then the classic Thor he wrote Jane as or showed Thor aspiring to be again.

    At least that's my takeway.

  13. #808
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    meh, I'm done.

    I just found out that Jane will be a Valkyrie which is what I predicted immediately when the series was announced.

    Jane became:

    1. Thor which made OG Thor drop his name
    2. All Mother of Asgard (Wut!?)
    3. Valkyrie

    all in a span of 4-5 years.

    I'm done with this.

    I want to apologize to anyone if I ever offended anyone or if I was harsh in replies.

    I'm sorry but I can't take this anymore. This simply isn't for me.

    I'm withdrawing from Thor comics, his mythology.

    I'll wait for another writer to try and salvage this mess.

    once again, I'm very sorry guys.

    good luck.
    Last edited by GodThor; 04-17-2019 at 07:45 PM.

  14. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodThor View Post
    meh, I'm done.

    I just found out that Jane will be a Valkyrie which is what I predicted immediately when the series was announced.

    Jane became:

    1. Thor which made OG Thor drop his name
    2. All Mother of Asgard (Wut!?)
    3. Valkyrie

    all in a span of 4-5 years.

    I'm done with this.

    I want to apologize to anyone if I ever offended anyone or if I was harsh in replies.

    I'm sorry but I can't take this anymore. This simply isn't for me.

    I'm withdrawing from Thor comics, his mythology.

    I'll wait for another writer to try and salvage this mess.

    once again, I'm very sorry guys.

    good luck.
    On a positive note, making Jane Valkyrie probably means they're seguing her out of being just known as Thor, so we don't have to worry about her being Thor again.

    I just hope they keep Valkyrie Jane as far away from Thor as possible.

  15. #810
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    On a positive note, making Jane Valkyrie probably means they're seguing her out of being just known as Thor, so we don't have to worry about her being Thor again.

    I just hope they keep Valkyrie Jane as far away from Thor as possible.
    don't know, don't wanna know and I don't care.

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