Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2019

[Izanami]

he's gonna be the pope he's gonna be the pope he's gonna be the pope

Considering he dated under his age it fits well with his new mission as pope. :P

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I just don't want Warren to either be the hippie version or the one that we currently have, sure everybody has a darker side but usually for most it doesn't overwhelm our reason and control us like it does with Warren, and healthy and happy would be relative, just not needing anybody to keep his two sides in check, that he would do that like everybody else, Warren could be made into the ideal of peace and such in Nate's mind...

Well then again Iz many X-characters have dated under their age...

[Rosebunse]

I like Warren to have problems. And I think Remender's gave him and Betsy and everyone who knows Warren a lot to consider in regards to his mental health. He did kill thousands of people and he was revealed to be a very dangerous cosmic entity.

Also, let's be honest, he got way farther than 616-Apocalypse ever does.

I think Warren is a cautionary tale. You have a very healthy and we'll adjusted man who has the least intimidating powers ever, yet he just wants to be a superhero because he likes it. He's a nice enough guy, tries to do his best for everyone. He's not involved in some weird prophesy or secret experiment, his powers are pretty basic, he didn't really even want more power.

Yet the cosmic forces of the universe took one look at him, ate him up and spat him out. It makes no sense that this wouldn't wreck him.

Maybe not hippie Angel again becahse, yeah, that ran its course, though I will argue that it was quite necessary from a storytelling standpoint. It let him get off the hook for murdering thousands of people since, well, could you really put something as cute as hippie Angel in prison? No, no you couldn't.

We know that Nate's world is meant to be a utopia, but clearly it has its host of issues.

So with that in mind, my bets are that:

1) Angel is a serial killer who is killing not "real" characters because, well, they aren't real.

2) Mindless attack animal

3) Underground arms dealer.

4) Warren's two halves have split, with one being a wise mutant spiritual leader and the other being Prisoner X.

[Thievery]

Considering he dated under his age it fits well with his new mission as pope. :P

Damn. That joke about of yours is spot on about certain priests.

But, Paige was meant to be 19 when she dated Angel. So no dating underage girls on Angel's record.

Well then again Iz many X-characters have dated under their age...

And, you sound as if you approve of this, Logan...

[Rosebunse]

I mean, they did it in tge sky right above her mom's house. Her mom was on the front yard.

How the hell does sky sex even work? How does he not crash into a fucking tree?

[Izanami]

I like Warren to have problems. And I think Remender's gave him and Betsy and everyone who knows Warren a lot to consider in regards to his mental health. He did kill thousands of people and he was revealed to be a very dangerous cosmic entity.

Also, let's be honest, he got way farther than 616-Apocalypse ever does.

I think Warren is a cautionary tale. You have a very healthy and we'll adjusted man who has the least intimidating powers ever, yet he just wants to be a superhero because he likes it. He's a nice enough guy, tries to do his best for everyone. He's not involved in some weird prophesy or secret experiment, his powers are pretty basic, he didn't really even want more power.

Yet the cosmic forces of the universe took one look at him, ate him up and spat him out. It makes no sense that this wouldn't wreck him.

Maybe not hippie Angel again becahse, yeah, that ran its course, though I will argue that it was quite necessary from a storytelling standpoint. It let him get off the hook for murdering thousands of people since, well, could you really put something as cute as hippie Angel in prison? No, no you couldn't.

I am not sure if you heard me say this here before but I consider Warren a good case for being a metaphor on mental illness and how it affects both you and family members. It is a struggle and for many it feels like the old you is another person. With the rise in mental health awareness, Warren would be a great device to use similar to Bojack Horseman and depression. As long as there is hope at the end of the road the struggle continues.

Hippie Angel for me was a lost opportunity. I would of liked to see him be used in a similar manner to Illyria in Angel and how this new entity was a reminder of someone they lost but was someone different at the same time. Sadly Aaron did weird things due to him being a baby sitter for Remender until he could use him in a story arc that never happened. He should of used him earlier during the Twin arc in Avengers since you never know how long you will be writing a book in current Marvel but you know the controversy there. Poor Wanda and Rogue. So much character assasination.
Sadly the same goes for 05 Angel, massive lost opportunity to feel the repercussions on DAS. How does it feel to know you became a villain and died. The person you see is not you and for all intent and purposes you are dead. Due to the hippie angel being a different person you could of thrown in the dilemma as to whether or not the 05 Warren should let destiny play out or change it forever killing this hippie angel. That is a powerful story and possible mini series. It makes sense why they changed it and had the amnesia thing since Hippie Angel was boring. There is a reason why he disappeared and the younger version of him took his place.

[Izanami]

Damn. That joke about of yours is spot on about certain priests.

I could not resist making the joke. Not sorry.

[Thievery]

I like Warren to have problems. And I think Remender's gave him and Betsy and everyone who knows Warren a lot to consider in regards to his mental health. He did kill thousands of people and he was revealed to be a very dangerous cosmic entity.

Also, let's be honest, he got way farther than 616-Apocalypse ever does.

I think Warren is a cautionary tale. You have a very healthy and we'll adjusted man who has the least intimidating powers ever, yet he just wants to be a superhero because he likes it. He's a nice enough guy, tries to do his best for everyone. He's not involved in some weird prophesy or secret experiment, his powers are pretty basic, he didn't really even want more power.

Yet the cosmic forces of the universe took one look at him, ate him up and spat him out. It makes no sense that this wouldn't wreck him.

Maybe not hippie Angel again becahse, yeah, that ran its course, though I will argue that it was quite necessary from a storytelling standpoint. It let him get off the hook for murdering thousands of people since, well, could you really put something as cute as hippie Angel in prison? No, no you couldn't.

We know that Nate's world is meant to be a utopia, but clearly it has its host of issues.

So with that in mind, my bets are that:

1) Angel is a serial killer who is killing not "real" characters because, well, they aren't real.

2) Mindless attack animal

3) Underground arms dealer.

4) Warren's two halves have split, with one being a wise mutant spiritual leader and the other being Prisoner X.

I thought that being possessed by the Death Seed was meant to let Warren of the hook for killing thousands of people. Sort of the way that being possessed by Phoenix is meant to let Jean off the hook for killing all of those aliens during Dark Phoenix Saga. I don't think that Hippie Angel is enough to absolve Warren for murder.

I'm some one who feels that too many Americans are in jail for minor crimes, leading to an overcrowded and ineffective prison system.
But, I can make an exception for Hippie Angel. He's annoying enough for me to lock up and throw away the key.

1) Could be, but I kind of doubt it. Nate's reality is meant to be a dictatorial utopia. Nate would kill a serial killer as one of his first acts. Unless that happens right away in the one-shot. I believe that the writers have said that Angel is one of their favorite characters in the story. But, I'm not familiar enough with their writing to guess if this is something that they would find interesting.

It is a creative idea, and I don't mean to bash it, especially as I am having a hard time coming up with something better.

2) Could be, if Nate wants some kind of enforcer. Nate could find Angel unworthy of being part of his utopia. But, unless Archangel is given a massive power upgrade, I think that there are probably more powerful mutants who could fill this role.

Still creative on your part. Don't mean to bash your idea.

3) I like this one for some reason.

4) I think that I like this idea the best. It could even tie into Legion's multiple personalities if you wanted it to.

The only idea that I can come up with is that Angel has reverted to his early narcissist, playboy personality that he had back in the silver age comics. Maybe he has been arrested for having excessive sex. With Paige. And in front of Paige's mother in the sky.

[Thievery]

I mean, they did it in tge sky right above her mom's house. Her mom was on the front yard.

How the hell does sky sex even work? How does he not crash into a fucking tree?

No idea. I've never tried to **** a girl in midair, and in front of her mother. And don't forget that their team mates were there.
Maybe Paige just husks into something super strong when they are about to crash into a tree.

I could not resist making the joke. Not sorry.

Good. Because you shouldn't be sorry.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Thankfully most characters seem to have forgotten about Austen's entire run...and no ArchAngel, I'm not supporting it or approving of it only saying that many X-characters have dated others that were younger than them so if the joke was to bash Warren then it could also be said about many others is all...

As for AoX if Warren is supposed to be different then I don't see him as a killer or bad guy in the normal sense as that is kind of how he is now, more likely he'll go the opposite way, maybe he's Nate's deputy or something, again I just don't want Warren constantly fighting his darker side, it gets old really quick, especially since it's been his storyline for like the past decade...then again it somehow seems that Nate may have created the world but I'm guessing that he'll also help in ending it, or that it got away from him and maybe Warren took his place...or something like that...

[Rosebunse]

I am not sure if you heard me say this here before but I consider Warren a good case for being a metaphor on mental illness and how it affects both you and family members. It is a struggle and for many it feels like the old you is another person. With the rise in mental health awareness, Warren would be a great device to use similar to Bojack Horseman and depression. As long as there is hope at the end of the road the struggle continues.

Hippie Angel for me was a lost opportunity. I would of liked to see him be used in a similar manner to Illyria in Angel and how this new entity was a reminder of someone they lost but was someone different at the same time. Sadly Aaron did weird things due to him being a baby sitter for Remender until he could use him in a story arc that never happened. He should of used him earlier during the Twin arc in Avengers since you never know how long you will be writing a book in current Marvel but you know the controversy there. Poor Wanda and Rogue. So much character assasination.
Sadly the same goes for 05 Angel, massive lost opportunity to feel the repercussions on DAS. How does it feel to know you became a villain and died. The person you see is not you and for all intent and purposes you are dead. Due to the hippie angel being a different person you could of thrown in the dilemma as to whether or not the 05 Warren should let destiny play out or change it forever killing this hippie angel. That is a powerful story and possible mini series. It makes sense why they changed it and had the amnesia thing since Hippie Angel was boring. There is a reason why he disappeared and the younger version of him took his place.

Yeah, so many missed opportunities from Remender. It felt like he was gearing up for something big that never happened, which is sad because I did love his books.

I don't know if it was Secret Wars or if it was just that he was having trouble finding his place, but Remender did have something special, he just couldn't make it work.

I thought that being possessed by the Death Seed was meant to let Warren of the hook for killing thousands of people. Sort of the way that being possessed by Phoenix is meant to let Jean off the hook for killing all of those aliens during Dark Phoenix Saga. I don't think that Hippie Angel is enough to absolve Warren for murder.

I'm some one who feels that too many Americans are in jail for minor crimes, leading to an overcrowded and ineffective prison system.
But, I can make an exception for Hippie Angel. He's annoying enough for me to lock up and throw away the key.

1) Could be, but I kind of doubt it. Nate's reality is meant to be a dictatorial utopia. Nate would kill a serial killer as one of his first acts. Unless that happens right away in the one-shot. I believe that the writers have said that Angel is one of their favorite characters in the story. But, I'm not familiar enough with their writing to guess if this is something that they would find interesting.

It is a creative idea, and I don't mean to bash it, especially as I am having a hard time coming up with something better.

2) Could be, if Nate wants some kind of enforcer. Nate could find Angel unworthy of being part of his utopia. But, unless Archangel is given a massive power upgrade, I think that there are probably more powerful mutants who could fill this role.

Still creative on your part. Don't mean to bash your idea.

3) I like this one for some reason.

4) I think that I like this idea the best. It could even tie into Legion's multiple personalities if you wanted it to.

The only idea that I can come up with is that Angel has reverted to his early narcissist, playboy personality that he had back in the silver age comics. Maybe he has been arrested for having excessive sex. With Paige. And in front of Paige's mother in the sky.

I don't think you're bashing these ideas. We just don't know what's happening and Angel seems to be a bigger part of the mystery than we would have thought. He certainly wasn't out of focus in Dissemble, which just makes this more confusing because it means he shouldn't be too out of focus in AOX.

But where's that art?

Warren is a visual feast for the eyes and it just feels like the artists would want to show him off.

I'm leaning towards the literal split personality as well. You're right that it would work with what we've seen with Legion and if I were Nate, it would not only be the safest thing to do, but it would also be giving Warren something that he might not want to lose.

Also, when it comes to the sky sex, how the **** is Warren controlling his flying? It really can't be that great if he's able to fly straight the whole time.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

If Warren has a true split personality then I'd hope that Nate would just separate the two and then the bad version would somehow be killed off before the AoX ends...or if they'd want to go really crazy end up with Warren/Betsy vs Dark Warren/Kwannon or something along those lines...

[Thievery]

Thankfully most characters seem to have forgotten about Austen's entire run...and no ArchAngel, I'm not supporting it or approving of it only saying that many X-characters have dated others that were younger than them so if the joke was to bash Warren then it could also be said about many others is all...

As for AoX if Warren is supposed to be different then I don't see him as a killer or bad guy in the normal sense as that is kind of how he is now, more likely he'll go the opposite way, maybe he's Nate's deputy or something, again I just don't want Warren constantly fighting his darker side, it gets old really quick, especially since it's been his storyline for like the past decade...then again it somehow seems that Nate may have created the world but I'm guessing that he'll also help in ending it, or that it got away from him and maybe Warren took his place...or something like that...

Relax, Logan, I was just joking about your possible support for X-Men characters dating underage characters. And Izinami was also just joking, she wasn't bashing Angel. We all know that the X-Men aren't pedophiles. Well, except for Psylocke. We all know that she likes them young, particularly her one true love, Doug Ramsey.

As for AoXM, well Warren being a villain would be a little different. He fought on the side of the X-Men against Nate. I read him as being one of the good guys in that story.

And, I agree with you in that I'm not as interested in Archangel having multiple personality problems all of the time the way some of our other Archangel fans are. I've said so many times. I just think that this multiple personality story might work out in AoXM, seeing as Legion may be involved. And it could work out for you, if Nate or Legion were to permanently separate Archangel's two personalities. Something that you yourself figured out later on in your next post.

If Warren has a true split personality then I'd hope that Nate would just separate the two and then the bad version would somehow be killed off before the AoX ends...or if they'd want to go really crazy end up with Warren/Betsy vs Dark Warren/Kwannon or something along those lines...

See, you figured out how a story using Warren's split personality might work out. I wouldn't like Kwannon as a villain, though.

[Rosebunse]

That would be the weirdest swinger's party ever lol

I'm not saying I mind keeping Warren and Archangel separate, but I would wonder what you would do with Archangel when this arc is done. And what would you do with Warren?

Is Warren still going to have some mental problems left over?

I guess part of the issue for me is that I feel like some characters have been one way for so long that I can't imagine them any other way. And I've had Warren with Archangel since I got into X-Men in 2009. And honestly, it's something I very much enjoy.

But many of you have been reading comics for far longer and you've seen this show and dance a bunch of times before.

[Thievery]

That would be the weirdest swinger's party ever lol

I'm not saying I mind keeping Warren and Archangel separate, but I would wonder what you would do with Archangel when this arc is done. And what would you do with Warren?

Is Warren still going to have some mental problems left over?

I guess part of the issue for me is that I feel like some characters have been one way for so long that I can't imagine them any other way. And I've had Warren with Archangel since I got into X-Men in 2009. And honestly, it's something I very much enjoy.

But many of you have been reading comics for far longer and you've seen this show and dance a bunch of times before.

I prefer Warren as Archangel. With the metal wings, and some times out of control blood lust. That's how Warren was when I first read about him.
I also read many of Warren's stories as Archangel that took place in the 80's and 90's in retrospect, and not when they were actually printed.

Starting out, I liked Archangel's split personality, when Yost/Kyle were writing it back in their X-Force run. I guess that I don't like Archangel's split personality as much now because that seems to be what all of his stories are about anymore. Usually he has some sort of mental problem, and Psylocke has to save him from himself. I didn't mind it when Bunn used that story in his Uncanny, but since then, we have gotten the same story in Soule's Astonishing, as well as this current run of Uncanny X-Men. That's just to many repeats of the same story to close togather over the last couple of years for me. So, at least for me, this does feel like the same old song and dance. Especialy because the ending always involves Psylocke saving Warren, instead of Warren doing something to help himself.

If I had my way, Warren would just keep the metal wings, and he would have kept working with the Sleeper mutants that Bunn introduced. I guess that Warren could have some mental problems left, but I would hope that it wouldn't involve the split personality, and that it wasn't his only go to story every year.

But, as to Psylocke always being involved in his stories, that may not last longer. I just looked at last month's sales numbers for Uncanny. The cover with Angel and Psylocke on it was issue#5. It was actually outsold by issue#6, something that usually doesn't happen in comics that sale weekly and in the same month. So, either Uncanny #6 had more or better variant covers, or Archangel/Psylocke doesn't sale as well as it used to. Possibly because people are tired of them being togather, or because they are tired of them appearing in the exact same stories togather.

And I say this as someone whose favorite X-romance story used to be Psylocke/Archangel