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  1. #481
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Talking Happy Birthday Paul Smith!!!

    X-Factor #43 Aug 1989
    Judgement War! Part 1 of 7. "Kidnaped!"
    X-Factor's Ship suddenly loses control of it's functions and begins to fly off into space.
    Acting quickly, the Ship erects a dome around the exposed part of it's hull where X-Factor was out relaxing.
    As the Ship flies out into space, the part of Marvel Girl's mind that is Madelyne Pryor
    and the Phoenix Entity
    causes her to smash through the dome to greet the stars.
    However, MG being not as powerful as the Phoenix Entity begins to suffocate in the vacuum of space.

    Quickely thinking, Archangel flies out and grabs her while the other members of X-Factor help pull them both back into the ship.
    With Jean and Warren save, Iceman seals the hole temporarily until Ship can effectively repair itself.
    As Cyclops tries to get MG to come to terms that she has the "best" part of all her incarnations in her,

    the Ship passes through hyperspace and appears over a strange planet.

    Although Ship cannot leave, he is able to scan the planet below and identifies that there is a war going on the planet,
    and provides X-Factor with devices that allow them to understand the alien language on the planet below.
    Suddenly they witness the appearance of a giant ship that dwarfs even Ship in size,
    and are soon confronted by the Celestial known as Gammenon the Gatherer.
    As Gammenon examines the Ship, X-Factor tries to make sense of the creature
    and soon find themselves transported to the planet's surface below along with Scott's son Christopher.

    They find themselves in the middle of a battle between the planets two dominant forces:
    The Chosen, human like beings that have super-human abilities, and the Rejects, inhuman mutates that also have powers.
    Unsure which side to fight for, Archangel makes up his mind when Princess Seera
    of the Chosen is in danger of being crushed by a Reject and he rescues her.

    He has broken a forbidden law of the land for touching the Princess, and mistaken for a Reject,
    Warren is knocked out by Lord Rask, a rich Chosen warrior who hopes that he can
    make even greater fortunes taking Warren as a slave and putting him to fight in the arenas.

    Iceman likewise is believed to be a Reject in his ice-form and faces against a fire wielding Chosen known as Lev.
    Before they can match powers, Bobby is struck on the head from behind and falls into the battle below.
    Jean meanwhile tries frantically to keep approaching Rejects from attacking her and young Christopher.
    However, one of the Rejects telepathic jammers uses its powers on Jean, shutting down her mind
    and sending Christopher falling to the ground as the battle rages on around him.

    As Gammenon lowers to the planet surface over the battle, Cyclops is knocked out by a Reject
    that is not only impervious to his optic blasts, but also can fire energy blasts from it's eyes as well.
    Beast goes to the rescue of a female Reject warrior named Zharkah.
    However he learns that his concern was for naught as she has entropic abilities and slays her attacker.
    Noticing the Celestial's descent, both side of the conflict flee the scene to avoid
    getting crushed under it's massive boot, with Beast accompanying Zharkah.

    As the Chosen forces pull out of the battle, Lev spots Iceman rising from the group, his ice form wearing off.
    Believing that he is a class of the Chosen referred to as a Dualer (those who have two forms)
    she is furious of how attacking one of her "kind" will have on her social standing.
    However, despite her feelings, she helps him along and learns that he has no memory of who he is or where he came from.
    As Marvel Girl is being carried away by the Rejects, one of the Chosen comes across Christopher and takes the child into his possession.
    Thinking it is one of the genetically engineered Chosen, he wonders how the child made it out into
    the middle of a battle and decides to take it with him to see if he can make money off his discovery.

    With the battle field cleared of all but the dead, Cyclops revives and finds that he has been left behind.
    With the foot of Gammenon just meters away, Cyclops tries in vein to blast
    it with his optic blast and remarks how this is indeed a stupid way to die.

    Story by Louise Simonson. Art by Paul Smith http://www.comicsreporter.com/index....ay_paul_smith/ and Al Milgrom.
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  2. #482
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    I really didn't mind Archangel having such a small role in House of X before he was killed, despite him being my favorite character. It didn't stop me from enjoying House of X. It made the story feel more dangerous for the other characters on the mission.
    That, and I don't need to see my favorite win all of the time or pull off great feats.

    But, I will be a little upset if Warren isn't brought back to life like the other characters on the mission. There has been a theory going around for some time now that all of the dead characters will be resurrected as clones/pod people. But, there is also some speculation that Warren died before the Xavier could copy his mind, and therefore not able to be resurrected. I would at least hope that Xavier copied Warren's mind before sending him on the suicide mission.
    Guess that I will just have to read the story to find out. Looking forward to it.

    If Warren can be cloned, does anyone think that Warren could be cloned in his Archangel form, or would he have to be cloned in his regular Angel form only. Is it possible that even someone like Mr. Sinister would be unable to clone Apocalypse's celestial technology.
    I would obviously hope for him to return in his Archangel form.

  3. #483
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Bringing Warren on that mission seems foolish. They were going to be in close quarters and he is most effective in the air for obvious reasons. Cyclops didnt really think too well in terms of his team selection

  4. #484
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    Or Thievery, they are all already pod people, so that if they die they just make a new pod person....or something like that...

  5. #485
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Bringing Warren on that mission seems foolish. They were going to be in close quarters and he is most effective in the air for obvious reasons. Cyclops didnt really think too well in terms of his team selection
    I've done quite a bit of suggesting on this forum that the space team was almost completely made up of the wrong characters. The X-Men would have been better off sending people like Polaris or Magik.

    But, to be fair Archangel is no more out of place on a space team than Wolverine is. Wolverine basically just cuts and slices things with his claws. Archangel can do that in close quarters with his wings, and unlike Wolverine, Warren can actually fire his blades. He's got more of long range fighting potential than Logan does. And, Archangel would be no less useful in a fight on that Orchis space station than the regular soldiers who made up that stations crew. Really, it would only be the feathered version of Warren that would have problems.
    I just think it was pretty obvious that there were some other X-Men who could have handled that space station without even stepping on it.

    I still did enjoy the story though, once I was able to get over the X-Men who were picked for the mission. I'm looking forward to seeing how this story goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Or Thievery, they are all already pod people, so that if they die they just make a new pod person....or something like that...
    There's some pretty good speculation going around from other members of this forum that Xavier wouldn't have cried at the end of the story if the dead X-Men were already clones or pod people. I think that theory makes a lot of sense. But, we will see.

  6. #486
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    I've done quite a bit of suggesting on this forum that the space team was almost completely made up of the wrong characters. The X-Men would have been better off sending people like Polaris or Magik.

    But, to be fair Archangel is no more out of place on a space team than Wolverine is. Wolverine basically just cuts and slices things with his claws. Archangel can do that in close quarters with his wings, and unlike Wolverine, Warren can actually fire his blades. He's got more of long range fighting potential than Logan does. And, Archangel would be no less useful in a fight on that Orchis space station than the regular soldiers who made up that stations crew. Really, it would only be the feathered version of Warren that would have problems.
    I just think it was pretty obvious that there were some other X-Men who could have handled that space station without even stepping on it.

    I still did enjoy the story though, once I was able to get over the X-Men who were picked for the mission. I'm looking forward to seeing how this story goes.



    There's some pretty good speculation going around from other members of this forum that Xavier wouldn't have cried at the end of the story if the dead X-Men were already clones or pod people. I think that theory makes a lot of sense. But, we will see.
    Wolverine is smaller, can be stealthy and better equipped for this kind of mission. His healing factor also makes him extremely useful. In terms of team selection, I think only Warren and Paige were the blatant head scratchers and of course both were the first ones to die.

    Warren can fight in close quarters if he absolutely has to but its not a good use of his abilities as he needs space to actually be effective. He runs the risk of killing or seriously injuring his teammates if he fights too close to them. Cyclops didnt know how big the corridors or area would be in the base but he did know they wouldnt be in open air, so it was a dumb decision to bring Warren.

  7. #487
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Wolverine is smaller, can be stealthy and better equipped for this kind of mission. His healing factor also makes him extremely useful. In terms of team selection, I think only Warren and Paige were the blatant head scratchers and of course both were the first ones to die.

    Warren can fight in close quarters if he absolutely has to but its not a good use of his abilities as he needs space to actually be effective. He runs the risk of killing or seriously injuring his teammates if he fights too close to them. Cyclops didnt know how big the corridors or area would be in the base but he did know they wouldnt be in open air, so it was a dumb decision to bring Warren.
    I'm not sold on Archangel being a threat to his teammates just because he would have been fighting in close quarters with them. You could argue that using Warren on a mission next to his teammates in any building is a bad idea using this idea.
    And heck, you could even argue that Cyclops would be just as dangerous fighting in such close quarters if he hit them with his eyebeams on accident because of how close they were.


    As for Logan being more valuable because he has healing powers, well, Warren has been shown to be pretty damage resistant over the last few years. He deliberately crashed straight into the Dark Riders' pyramid during Bunn's Uncanny X-Men and survived. Soul showed him being pretty damage resistant in his Astonishing run as well. Really, Warren's power levels have been all over the place depending on who is writing him.

    Now you could argue that Warren would be a threat to his teammates if he still had his split personality. If his Death persona were to resurface and take over Warren, I could see how Archangel might make deliberately reckless decisions that could kill his teammates. Normal Warren would be much more careful around his teammates if he were in control of himself.

    I do still agree that several of the wrong X-Men were selected for this mission, including Warren.

  8. #488
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    It's a little hard to explain.

    I'll start with Cullen Bunn's Uncanny X-Men. During the Apocalypse Wars issues of his run, Warren and his personalities seemed to merge into a new form of Archangel. It appeared to me as though Warren's usual personality was in control of the Archangel. This happened in the second arc of Bunn's Uncanny, and I believe that issues were numbers 5 to 8. Warren was also put in charge of a number of an army of Sleeper Mutants who had tried to avoid the Inhuman Terrigan cloud by going into some form of hibernation. This was my favorite version of recent Warren.

    Next in Charles Soul's Astonishing X-Men, Warren seemed to be back to fighting against his Archangel split personality. Archangel wanted to kill, Warren did not. During this series of comics, it appeared as if X had cured Warren of having a split personality.

    Later, in the Astonishing X-Men annual by Rosenberg, Warren was back to having to try to control his Archangel personality. He was scared of losing control of his Archangel personality.
    This was also his status in X-Men Disassembled, but it read to me as though Warren had a little more control of Archangel.

    It's to early to tell where Hickman might take Archangel, but from his one line in HoX 3, it read to me as if Warren was in control of Archangel. He seemed less Psychotic to me. But, it is still only one issue to go off of.

    Also, different readers have interpreted these stories in different ways. Some readers believe that the Archangel split personality was still present all the way back to Bunn's Uncanny, and has remained ever since then.
    I would disagree though.
    Thanks a lot, mate.

  9. #489
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I remember back when this preview came out that Hickman did, people wondered if the "errors" here were typos. The stuff with Monet has since been proven to be true and we now know why she is listed as Penance. What about Warren's first appearance? Are we gonna get some retcon that explains why its listed as issue 3 and not 1? I wonder if that could play into his recent death

  10. #490
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post

    I remember back when this preview came out that Hickman did, people wondered if the "errors" here were typos. The stuff with Monet has since been proven to be true and we now know why she is listed as Penance. What about Warren's first appearance? Are we gonna get some retcon that explains why its listed as issue 3 and not 1? I wonder if that could play into his recent death
    I've been wondering if that "error" about Warren's first appearance being listed as Uncanny X-Men (1963) #3 wasn't really an error for a while now. I was thinking that it could be explained that the Angel that we have been following all of these years actually replaced the real Warren some where in either issue two or three. I would hate to see something like that happen. It would throw a lot of Angel's back story out. It would eliminate just about all of Warren's history. His iconic Archangel and Horseman stories would be gone. It would even eliminate the time that teen Warren spent in the future with the teen 05 because Beast recruited them in issue #8.

    Hopefully if Warren's history is being retconned into him not appearing until issue 3, and that preview is not an error, then at least we get some good story and explanation for it that would make up for what would be lost.
    I'll just wait and see.

  11. #491
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    I just realized Marvel finally succeed in creating an equivalent to Hawkman... both him and Warren are Continuity Snarls. xD

  12. #492
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Jacket View Post
    I just realized Marvel finally succeed in creating an equivalent to Hawkman... both him and Warren are Continuity Snarls. xD
    Maybe, maybe not.

    That image listing Warren's first appearance as Uncanny X-Men (1963) could just be an actual mistake. We wont know for sure until later on.

    And the does he/ does he not have a split personality could be easily fixed just by picking a direction and sticking with it.

    It is kind of interesting that the two characters share a lot in common besides possible continuity snarls. They both have wings, have some sort of connection to Egypt, and depending on which version of Hawkman that is being used I think that they both have religious undertones. I'm not very familiar with Hawkman, but I think he is willing to use lethal force. If that is the case, then depending on which version of Archangel is being used they both aren't afraid to use lethal tactics.

  13. #493
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post


    I didnt realize Warren used to wield a gun
    After looking at this wonderful cover, I nearly forgotten how many great costumes (and some major duds) Warren had. The best is still Neal Adam's dark blue and white one. Can't be beat. But I do love his X-Force (Black and Silver) Archangel look. While I can appreciate Walter Simonson's creation, blue and magenta are not very intimidating.

    The worst is definitely the red, yellow and blue look from the 60s.

  14. #494
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    After looking at this wonderful cover, I nearly forgotten how many great costumes (and some major duds) Warren had. The best is still Neal Adam's dark blue and white one. Can't be beat. But I do love his X-Force (Black and Silver) Archangel look. While I can appreciate Walter Simonson's creation, blue and magenta are not very intimidating.

    The worst is definitely the red, yellow and blue look from the 60s.
    I prefer the black and silver Archangel look. I agree that the red, yellow and blue costume is easily his worst uniform. The champions one is also pretty bad. It isn't shown on this cover, but I didn't like it when Warren wore the old red halo costume while he still had blue skin back in the 90's. It just didn't look good togather in my opinion. The Blue halo costume is much better than the red one in my opinion.

    I'm a little surprised that the blue and white costume that had an angel in place of the halo made the cover. I liked it, but Warren didn't wear it for very long. I'm also a little surprised that the red costume Warren wore during Austen's run has held up time reasonably well. I really didnt like it when it first appeared, but it wouldn't look to out of place today. Minus the loin cloth.

    Has any one else noticed that the uniforms that Angel wore when he came forward in time with the other teen O5 is missing? I don't believe that I have seen any of the teen O5 uniforms that the characters wore while they spent time in the future on any of the "X-Men through the decades" variant covers. Not even the Bendis ones.
    Last edited by Thievery; 09-10-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  15. #495
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    So, after reading Powers of X #4, it appears as if Apocalypse's original Four Horseman will be returning. It's also implied that Apocalypse cared about them more than any of his later Horseman.

    I'd say that it might make for an interesting story for Warren, if Warren ends up being resurrected. I really doubt if Warren would care about Apocalypse not viewing Warren as his favorite, seeing as how Warren really hates the guy, and wishes that he had never become Death. But, it might be interesting if Archangel would have to help stop the original Horseman somewhere down the line. It seems to be his only real logical storyline with what we currently know about Dawn of X and his absence in those comics. Any one else have some other ideas or thoughts as to how this could turn out.

    If Apocalypse does discard Warren for good, this would be a great opportunity to get rid of the Death split personality. At least I think so. I know that a lot of other readers enjoy the split personality idea.

    I would just hope that he would get to keep the metal wings.

    Assuming that Warren actually survives long enough to reach Dawn of X, of course.

    Anyhow, I meant to post earlier that Orchis would now seem to posses Warren's dead body. Maybe some of the bodies of some of the other X-Men who went on the suicide mission against Mother Mold. Any one care to guess as to how those bodies could be used by Orchis.

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