Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2019

[Rosebunse]

Also, it sounds like Apocalypse isn't going to be the villain here and that he'll be on an X-Men team. Never thought I would write that sentense.

How is Warren supposed to react to that?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well I'm not sure that Apocalypse can be trusted just yet, it'd be just like him to pretend to be good to get what he wants and then stab Xavier and Betsy in the back, maybe Warren is the one that tells Betsy that and she doesn't believe him until it happens...

[Havok83]

I read the story as humans only having twenty years as the dominant species on earth. Not that they would be extinct in twenty years. So that would give them plenty of time to kill mutants again.

I don't see how the mutants would be able to hide the entry points indefinitely. Their are plenty of super intelligent villains in the Marvel Universe who could come up with a way to enter Krakoa given enough time.
And there is also Reed Richards and Tony Stark. Mystique and Toad stole their technology from Damage Control. I'm sure that they will want to get it back, and they are more than capable of breaching Krakoa. I'm not saying that they would kill the mutants once they got into Krakoa, but they could leave behind an entry way for anti-mutant humans to take advantage of.

Not to mention Dr. Strange. He could teleport into Krakoa if he wanted to and he has the magic to protect himself and anyone else

[Rosebunse]

Well I'm not sure that Apocalypse can be trusted just yet, it'd be just like him to pretend to be good to get what he wants and then stab Xavier and Betsy in the back, maybe Warren is the one that tells Betsy that and she doesn't believe him until it happens...

Apocalypse is the one villain I can't see anyone trusting for any reason.

[Thievery]

Also, it sounds like Apocalypse isn't going to be the villain here and that he'll be on an X-Men team. Never thought I would write that sentense.

How is Warren supposed to react to that?

I would like to think that Warren would consider Apocalypse's presence on Krokoa to be a deal breaker for him. Normally I would think that Warren would leave the X-Men and Krakoa behind just for having the guy around, seeing as Apocalypse has been shown as being able to influence Warren in the past. Besides, Angel just flat out hates the guy. He probably wouldn't want to be around him even if Apocalypse was genuinely trying to change for the better.
I would say that Betsy working with the guy would probably explain why he would want no part of being on her Excalibur team.

But, there is definitely a felling that all isn't well on Krakoa. Xavier in particular seems to be giving off sinister undertones. So Archangel being willing to be on the same island with Apocalypse could be just another clue that Krakoa may not be the utopia that it seems to be.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Yeah all is not well and when Apocalypse does turn on Betsy it'll be that Warren knew it would happen or something along those lines...

[Havok83]

Apocalypse is the one villain I can't see anyone trusting for any reason.

They've trusted Mystique and IMO, she's a whole lot worse

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't see how Mystique is anywhere near as bad as Apocalypse, who has killed millions or had millions killed over his VERY long life...

[Thievery]

Yeah all is not well and when Apocalypse does turn on Betsy it'll be that Warren knew it would happen or something along those lines...

I think that that job will probably end up going to Gambit. He has also been one of Apocalypse's Horseman, and has every reason to not trust Apocalypse. And, Gambit is actually on Betsy's Excalibur team.
Assuming that Apocalypse really is pretending to be seeking redemption, and isn't being genuine about it.

I don't see how Mystique is anywhere near as bad as Apocalypse, who has killed millions or had millions killed over his VERY long life...

I agree that Apocalypse is more evil, with a centuries long history of committing mass-murder.
But, Mystique has a long history of betraying the X-Men whenever they have trusted her, and it would seem foolish for them to trust her again.

They've trusted Mystique and IMO, she's a whole lot worse

Archangel has actually trusted Mystique before. He worked with her during Bunn's Uncanny, along with Magneto, Black Tom, Brier, and Sabretooth. Although Sabretooth was inverted at the time. Current Warren seems to have no problem working with more morally grey or even villainous characters. Well right now he doesn't. We don't know how Hickman plans to write him going forward.

I just think that Angel would have a particular problem working with Apocalypse, seeing as how much Angel hates the guy. I don't think that Angel would give Apocalypse a shot at redemption, even if Apocalypse truly wanted one. Yet he's willing to work with people like Mystique.

[Havok83]

I don't see how Mystique is anywhere near as bad as Apocalypse, who has killed millions or had millions killed over his VERY long life...

Mystique ranks up there as the most evil and vile character. She has no redeeming qualities outside of Destiny who is dead. Sometimes theres Rogue but she's tried to kill her in the past as well. And my point wasnt about whom is more evil; its about trustworthiness. Apoaclypse has always been straightforward. What you see is what you get and he isnt about playing games. Mystique on the other hand is very duplictious, deceptive and lies. She always has an ulterior motive and has constantly betrayed her teammates and played the X-men for fools.

Archangel has actually trusted Mystique before. He worked with her during Bunn's Uncanny, along with Magneto, Black Tom, Brier, and Sabretooth. Although Sabretooth was inverted at the time. Current Warren seems to have no problem working with more morally grey or even villainous characters. Well right now he doesn't. We don't know how Hickman plans to write him going forward.

I just think that Angel would have a particular problem working with Apocalypse, seeing as how much Angel hates the guy. I don't think that Angel would give Apocalypse a shot at redemption, even if Apocalypse truly wanted one. Yet he's willing to work with people like Mystique.

I agree that Warren would most likely never trust or want to voluntarily work with APocalypse but I was responded to the comment that no one else would

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well I would think that Betsy would be HIGHLY suspect of him from day one and not let up, Gambit and Rogue as well, and Apocalypse has played game and is duplicitous, deceptive, and lies...

[Havok83]

Well I would think that Betsy would be HIGHLY suspect of him from day one and not let up, Gambit and Rogue as well, and Apocalypse has played game and is duplicitous, deceptive, and lies...

Does he? Apocalypse is always straightforward about his quest for power and mutant domination. He doesnt pretend to be good or try to get in the good graces of the heroes as some plot to take them down or use them for his benefit. He is one of the most transparent villian out there. He's not known for backstabbing. In X-Cutioner's Song, Warren is the one that vouched for Apocalypse, in spite of his hate for him, when Apocalypse offered to help them, Warren trusted that he could save Xavier. The X-men followed him and guess what? Apocalypse didnt betray them



When Apocalypse has come for the X-men, they've always known as he doesnt need to play mind games to take them on. You do that when you dont have the upper hand and/or outmatched, but Apocalypse tends to see himself as superior and the tactics that Mystique uses are beneath him

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Apocalypse can lie and manipulate people with the best of them, he doesn't always just come full force for what he wants over the centuries...

[Havok83]

Apocalypse can lie and manipulate people with the best of them, he doesn't always just come full force for what he wants over the centuries...

You completely missed the point

[Thievery]

Mystique ranks up there as the most evil and vile character. She has no redeeming qualities outside of Destiny who is dead. Sometimes theres Rogue but she's tried to kill her in the past as well. And my point wasnt about whom is more evil; its about trustworthiness. Apoaclypse has always been straightforward. What you see is what you get and he isnt about playing games. Mystique on the other hand is very duplictious, deceptive and lies. She always has an ulterior motive and has constantly betrayed her teammates and played the X-men for fools.


I agree that Warren would most likely never trust or want to voluntarily work with APocalypse but I was responded to the comment that no one else would

Actually, I think that there are plenty of X-Men who would be distrustful of Apocalypse. So many X-Men have been Horseman over the years that you have a pretty large group of X-Men that would be distrustful of right there. And, Apocalypse infected baby Cable with the TO virus. So that adds Cyclops, Jean, and Cable to the list. Pretty sure that Cable considers Apocalypse to be a hated enemy. And besides that, Apocalypse is just way more powerful than Mystique. I would think that the X-Men would be way more concerned with a guy with Apocalypses strength and powers walking around Krakoa than they would Mystique. Well except for maybe Rogue.

But who knows how the story will work itself out. Some times the best stories come from enemies having to put aside there differences and work togather.

Does he? Apocalypse is always straightforward about his quest for power and mutant domination. He doesnt pretend to be good or try to get in the good graces of the heroes as some plot to take them down or use them for his benefit. He is one of the most transparent villian out there. He's not known for backstabbing. In X-Cutioner's Song, Warren is the one that vouched for Apocalypse, in spite of his hate for him, when Apocalypse offered to help them, Warren trusted that he could save Xavier. The X-men followed him and guess what? Apocalypse didnt betray them



When Apocalypse has come for the X-men, they've always known as he doesnt need to play mind games to take them on. You do that when you dont have the upper hand and/or outmatched, but Apocalypse tends to see himself as superior and the tactics that Mystique uses are beneath him

As far as Apocalypse being able to take on the X-Men stait forward without needing to deceive them, he did beat the asses of about six X-Men pretty easily and pretty quickly. So no, he doesn't always need to rely on deception.

In the scenes that you posted from X-Cutioner's Song, I took the X-Men's willingness to work with Apocalypse to be out of desperation. Apocalypse was the guy who created the TO virus if I remember correctly. And if I remember correctly, Apocalypse only helped the X-Men to help himself get back at Stryfe.

Archangel did end up leaving Apocalypse to die after the Dark Riders had fatally wounded Apocalypse on the moon. Warren made absolutely no attempt to help him. He's just spiteful that way.