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  1. #121
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    Don't worry Arch, I wasn't actually upset just wanted to make things clear is all...I was just thinking of a way to fix Warren that wouldn't be Betsy saving him like she has before and it wouldn't pull Archangel out of Warren just the darker death persona or whatever so then just differentiate them enough and it'd be fine, I don't think that people don't like W/B it's just that they're not being given their due lately and not given a push, Betsy changed bodies and it's barely been mentioned, Warren's gone through a lot and nobody has really said anything as far as other characters...I'd say that different issues are written differently and maybe #6 was just a more well written issue, wouldn't put it all on W/B...

    I just feel that Warren could exist in the gray zone in between the light and dark without having a true "dark" side of him that he has to keep himself from letting loose...

  2. #122
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with you about Archangel and Psylocke receiving much of a push, Logan. They were on a cover togather. Their somewhat on again off relationship was one of the few storylines that received a lot of attention in multipole issues of the Uncanny re-launch. They even played a fairly significant role in how the story concluded. And I'd say that many other characters have commented on the changes that Psylocke and Archangel have gone through lately.

    I'm not sure how better writing can account for the cover featuring Archangel and Pslocke selling fewer copies than the next issue afterwards. These comics are ordered in advance of what comic shops and readers know what the writing will be like. Now, if there is an uptick in reorders for issue #5, then maybe we can read a little more into what fans think of Psylocke/Archangel going forward. Perhaps the story will end up being better received in the end. Who knows at this point.

    And really, all you have to do is look at the poor sales numbers for Mr. and Mrs. X to see that there may not be a huge market for nostalgia couples. Even Gambit and Rogue are struggling. And I say that as someone who really enjoys the Mr. and Mrs. X comic. I think that readers may be looking for new pairings when it comes to romance in the X-comics. Just some unproven speculation on my part. Obviously, I have no way of proving this without the data that Marvel has.

    Or, maybe readers just find everything in the recent Uncanny X-Men relaunch to be to full of nostalgia in general. Who knows at this point.

  3. #123
    The Queen of Maggots Izanami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngelSliver View Post
    And really, all you have to do is look at the poor sales numbers for Mr. and Mrs. X to see that there may not be a huge market for nostalgia couples. Even Gambit and Rogue are struggling. And I say that as someone who really enjoys the Mr. and Mrs. X comic. I think that readers may be looking for new pairings when it comes to romance in the X-comics. Just some unproven speculation on my part. Obviously, I have no way of proving this without the data that Marvel has.
    As someone who has been outside these forums, I can attest to this. Archangel/Psylocke is not as popular as one would assume. It does not have the long history of the Logan, Scott, and Jean love triangle. Out of all the tv shows and movies where he does appear; only one hinted at a relationship. The last incarnations of Angel had him be attracted to Storm (WATXM), then Rogue (Evolution), and maybe Storm again in Spiderman and his Amazing Friends. Psylocke either does not exist yet or they have no attraction to eachother aside from the comics. X-Men Apocalypse is a good example due to Olivia's age compared to her younger co-star. Even X-3 have them not meet or have a relationship.
    Last edited by Izanami; 01-20-2019 at 02:01 AM.
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  4. #124
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    Well it could have been less about whether people liked the pairing and whether people would rather have wanted the issue to be about say Jean and others instead...as for Mr. & Mrs. X might be more about that it's just the two of them and been uneven at times with some good moments and some headscratching moments...the fact that W/B storyline is the same as it was before probably didn't help matters more than it was them as a seeming couple, if they're allowed to move forward together I think that they'd be fine...

    Just wondering if W/B have a couple app. thread yet...

    Almost beginning to wonder if Warren's contribution in AoX will be as a big criminal, his crime, loving Betsy or something along those lines...as otherwise he'd be right along with Nate's views on things and such...
    Last edited by LoganAlpha30X33; 01-21-2019 at 02:58 AM.

  5. #125
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I just feel that Warren could exist in the gray zone in between the light and dark without having a true "dark" side of him that he has to keep himself from letting loose...
    Sorry, Logan, I forgot to respond to this in my previous post. I think that this is what most Archangel fans want, and have been advocating for, though, I wouldn't mind Warren having a dark side. I just don't like the split personality.

    Others feel that Angel should have mental health issues, but that wouldn't be my favorite. But, it's a free comic forum, and everyone has a right to their opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Well it could have been less about whether people liked the pairing and whether people would rather have wanted the issue to be about say Jean and others instead...as for Mr. & Mrs. X might be more about that it's just the two of them and been uneven at times with some good moments and some headscratching moments...the fact that W/B storyline is the same as it was before probably didn't help matters more than it was them as a seeming couple, if they're allowed to move forward together I think that they'd be fine...



    Almost beginning to wonder if Warren's contribution in AoX will be as a big criminal, his crime, loving Betsy or something along those lines...as otherwise he'd be right along with Nate's views on things and such...

    I kind of doubt that the sells issue for the Angel/Psylocke cover issue had to do with readers only wanted to read about Jean, and the other characters more.
    But, if it is true that people wanted to read characters other than the Archangel/Psylocke romance, well that would be a little more evidence that people may no longer be interested in them as a couple, and involved in the same stories over and over again.

    I think that most of us have been speculating that Archangel may end up being some kind of villain in AoXM. It Doesn't mean that we will be correct. And I have also suggested part of the reason that Warren may be a villain is because of his love of Psylocke. You've ben kind of shooting that idea down. I'm glad that you have come around to using common sense, and are acknowledging the fact that I am right
    Last edited by Thievery; 01-21-2019 at 07:44 AM.

  6. #126
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    Thirty lashes with a wet noodle for you

    Anyway if as in the book with Apocalypse in it in AoX seems to be suggesting that Nate takes away love or something that was why I thought that Warren's "crime" could be that he loved Betsy and that would then make him the "enemy" of Nates side which Betsy's team seems to be...

    I was more meaning that perhaps Warren and Betsy were at the moment not the most favorite characters that people wanted to read about...and some of the readers might be from a time after they had split up those years ago...like not sure how many Scott/Jean fans were created after he and Emma started their relationship...

    Guess there isn't a W/B app thread...

  7. #127
    Mighty Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami View Post
    As someone who has been outside these forums, I can attest to this. Archangel/Psylocke is not as popular as one would assume. It does not have the long history of the Logan, Scott, and Jean love triangle. Out of all the tv shows and movies where he does appear; only one hinted at a relationship. The last incarnations of Angel had him be attracted to Storm (WATXM), then Rogue (Evolution), and maybe Storm again in Spiderman and his Amazing Friends. Psylocke either does not exist yet or they have no attraction to eachother aside from the comics. X-Men Apocalypse is a good example due to Olivia's age compared to her younger co-star. Even X-3 have them not meet or have a relationship.
    It's kind of interesting that you would bring up what casual fans away from this forum think. I talk to those casual fans a bit, and they usually have very different opinions than what are expressed on CBR.

    For the Archangel/Psylocke ship, I'd say that the opinion from casual fans on this one is more than 50% in terms of popularity, with a slight majority in favor of it. And there doesn't seem to be an age difference between which fans like this one and those who don't. There is a lot more fatigue about the two of them being involved in the same "Psylocke saves Archangel from mental possession involving Apocalypse and Horseman" stories over and over again.

    The teen Angel/X-23 romance is out right hated on this forum, but among casual fans that I have talked to, this relationship is almost overwhelmingly liked. I was a little surprised at how popular this one is among casual readers. I've said this before, but I simply may not be the target audience for this story. While many guys liked this couple, the biggest fans of this one tended to be teen girls and young woman. Nothing wrong with Marvel trying to expand their fans.

    For as much as many members of this forum like to make fun of the Angel/Husk pairing, this one is liked by about 50% of the casual fans that I have talked to. This one seems to be liked by people who started reading X-Men while the relationship was going. Fans who grew up reading the X-Men at the time.

    Theses are just the views of the casual fans that I have talked to, and casuals from other areas that aren't in my area may feel differently.

  8. #128
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I liked Warren and X-23 and felt they were unfairly hated. I think many here were just bitter he wasnt Scott

  9. #129
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    I liked teen Warren with Laura but don't want her with fully adult Warren and never liked Paige/Warren, always wondered if she really did see Betsy when she was near death or if she just made it up to try to get Warren to move on given how much he loved Betsy at that time...

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I liked Warren and X-23 and felt they were unfairly hated. I think many here were just bitter he wasn't Scott
    When a friend of mine (who is a casual reader) read that issue. She was completely fine with and found the scene of them talking "cute" and "honest". She grabs comics here and there from the library. Her local comic book shop is miles away due to living in a rural setting. This site is nice and all but is not the defacto place for the common opinion. I am just sad that there should of been more done with them for their own stories to grow. Its why I prefer the Taylor version of their relationship vs the toxic one that was given to us by Hopeless.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngelSliver View Post
    It's kind of interesting that you would bring up what casual fans away from this forum think. I talk to those casual fans a bit, and they usually have very different opinions than what are expressed on CBR.

    For the Archangel/Psylocke ship, I'd say that the opinion from casual fans on this one is more than 50% in terms of popularity, with a slight majority in favor of it. And there doesn't seem to be an age difference between which fans like this one and those who don't. There is a lot more fatigue about the two of them being involved in the same "Psylocke saves Archangel from mental possession involving Apocalypse and Horseman" stories over and over again.

    The teen Angel/X-23 romance is out right hated on this forum, but among casual fans that I have talked to, this relationship is almost overwhelmingly liked. I was a little surprised at how popular this one is among casual readers. I've said this before, but I simply may not be the target audience for this story. While many guys liked this couple, the biggest fans of this one tended to be teen girls and young woman. Nothing wrong with Marvel trying to expand their fans.

    For as much as many members of this forum like to make fun of the Angel/Husk pairing, this one is liked by about 50% of the casual fans that I have talked to. This one seems to be liked by people who started reading X-Men while the relationship was going. Fans who grew up reading the X-Men at the time.

    Theses are just the views of the casual fans that I have talked to, and casuals from other areas that aren't in my area may feel differently.
    I hang out in a lot of different circles so my opinions vary widely. It is why I am not opposed to two characters being together as long as they are happy. So I like multiple ships of the same character. Since I hang out more in places that do fanfiction type things I get more of the people who jumped on Angel due to the actor who plays him due to him being in a popular british soap opera before getting the role. Considering he also landed the role as Roger in Bohemian Rhapsody that is even more fire to the fanfic role. In that circle they prefer Angel single and "bad boy" for obvious reasons. There was also a boost of popularity among some anime fans with shipping AngelxNightcrawler in the movie due to the angel/demon dynamic that was presented in the movie. It is interesting how different circles see the same character in multiple ways.
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  12. #132
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    I usually stick to my ships and rarely if ever change them so I don't have multiple ships with the characters, but different writers do portray different pairings differently...

  13. #133
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    I'm not a "die for my ship" kind of gal. Frabkly, I find extreme shippers sort of freaky. Those people will cut you! I mean, I know even this site can have its own toxic moments, but on a whole this is one of the healthier fan communities when it comes to shipping.

    I think the main issue with Angel and Psylocke is that they're just not in a ton of movies or cartoons or video games. And when they are, they aren't the main focus.

    This is especially true for Psylocke, a character who can be rather problematic because...well...

    And slash/yaoi ships almost always get more play by hardcore fans.

  14. #134
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    I think that it's more that Marvel doesn't want to push many characters past a few for movies and cartoons and such, they go with the best selling characters in their eyes and Warren's wings would probably cause problems for the movies and games and such, and his powers don't always look "cool" enough, though Betsy has been in some games and such...

    I just stick to my ships because they help to get me interested in what is going on in the comic/movie/tv show and such...

  15. #135
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    Cartoons and movies are expensive things.

    Also, the Archangel wings just seem like a pain to animate in any format.

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