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  1. #1
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    Default "Don't Cross Her Path" Felicia Hardy aka Black Cat Appreciation 2019

    A new year, a new appreciation thread for everyone's favorite comic book cat burglar (that isn't Selina Kyle).



    First appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #194 (July 1979)


    Created by: Marv Wolfman and Dave Cockrum

  2. #2
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    UGH SLAY QUEEN

    https://twitter.com/IbanCoelloSoria/...08125550641152



    AY YO IS IT MARCH YET?
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  3. #3
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Replying to MP95 from the previous thread:

    Felicia's words and actions in issue 10 is what showed me that Nick Spencer truly does love and understand Felicia's character in a way that many writers in Marvel at the moment (and even in general) don't. Nick Spencer has said he wanted to write a Black Cat series for years (it's what Superior Foes was originally pitched as) and after how well he's been writing her, I say bring it on!!!

    This interview is further proof that he's meant to write a Black Cat series.
    https://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-m...ick-spencer/2/

    See, I don't mind that Felicia says heroic, or semi-heroic things from time to time. She's certainly been through a lot of development and in the nineties was pretty much a straight-up hero. Just like she's no longer only into the "Spider" and not "boring old Peter Parker." Now she loves and appreciates both. Plus, after all the straight up villainous things she's said and done during her Queenpin career, I think it's only fair to go as far away from that as possible in every way.
    I don't really think that just because they did one terrible thing with her character that they should be going to the other end, sure, heroic Felicia is far more fitting than that train wreck that Queenpin was, but even so it's not really fitting for her either, plus during that story itself Felicia was too serious, plus she was just saying she was going to steal shit, which, wasn't even hinted she did at any point too.

    And while I'm aware it sounds like I'm saying Spencer did a bad job with her, I don't actualy think so, it's a situation that is arguably fitting for her to sound more heroic and serious, since stealing from so many heroes is a big deal, and no character should be static to the point they always react to shit the same way, everytime, I'm giving Spencer the benefit of the doubt, but if she shows up again in a less serious situation, but still has that seriousness and hero-talk, then it's gonna be weird characterization for her.

    Oh and, and I had forgotten to mention, the scene where Felicia learns that Spidey caused a memory-wipe, her included, and he never revealed his identity to her and she was sad over it, then he revealed it to her again, pretty good scene, I wasn't even expecting it, I thought this story would be done only to help stabilish that Felicia left the Queenpin crap behind and is more to the heroic side again, not that she'd also get to re-learn Spidey's secret identity, really, why didn't anyone talk about this in the last thread? Lol

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    UGH SLAY QUEEN

    https://twitter.com/IbanCoelloSoria/...08125550641152



    AY YO IS IT MARCH YET?
    "Hunted" could well be the most essential Peter and Felicia story this decade.

  5. #5
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Replying to MP95 from the previous thread:



    I don't really think that just because they did one terrible thing with her character that they should be going to the other end, sure, heroic Felicia is far more fitting than that train wreck that Queenpin was, but even so it's not really fitting for her either, plus during that story itself Felicia was too serious, plus she was just saying she was going to steal shit, which, wasn't even hinted she did at any point too.

    And while I'm aware it sounds like I'm saying Spencer did a bad job with her, I don't actualy think so, it's a situation that is arguably fitting for her to sound more heroic and serious, since stealing from so many heroes is a big deal, and no character should be static to the point they always react to shit the same way, everytime, I'm giving Spencer the benefit of the doubt, but if she shows up again in a less serious situation, but still has that seriousness and hero-talk, then it's gonna be weird characterization for her.

    Oh and, and I had forgotten to mention, the scene where Felicia learns that Spidey caused a memory-wipe, her included, and he never revealed his identity to her and she was sad over it, then he revealed it to her again, pretty good scene, I wasn't even expecting it, I thought this story would be done only to help stabilish that Felicia left the Queenpin crap behind and is more to the heroic side again, not that she'd also get to re-learn Spidey's secret identity, really, why didn't anyone talk about this in the last thread? Lol
    The reason Nick likes characters like Felicia and Emma Frost is that they're unpredictable and grey. He's not going to turn her into a straight hero and isn't acting in reaction to Queenpin.

    "I've always been a really big fan of Felicia as a character. I was obviously excited to get to write her here. I like characters who are unpredictable. You never quite know which direction they're going to go in. They keep the reader on their toes. I also like that Felicia is kind of making up her morality as she goes along and trying to do good while not necessarily being a good person. I like the kind of careful balancing act that she's always doing in terms of what is and isn't acceptable, and how that contrasts with Peter who has such a rigid sense of right and wrong."

    Also, Queenpin was worth it. Not that she should've stayed that way, but the catharsis readers felt when that rift was mended last year already makes it worth it, not even considering that it was the only new idea anyone thought up for her in years and it allowed her to stretch her legs in other books. Nick's Heist arc would've had its limbs blown off without that era, it gives him more to work with now that she's going to be central to his run, it significantly raised her MU profile, and all the things she did during it blow open an entire new ocean of possibilities for her in future stories.
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  6. #6
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The reason Nick likes characters like Felicia and Emma Frost is that they're unpredictable and grey. He's not going to turn her into a straight hero and isn't acting in reaction to Queenpin.

    "I've always been a really big fan of Felicia as a character. I was obviously excited to get to write her here. I like characters who are unpredictable. You never quite know which direction they're going to go in. They keep the reader on their toes. I also like that Felicia is kind of making up her morality as she goes along and trying to do good while not necessarily being a good person. I like the kind of careful balancing act that she's always doing in terms of what is and isn't acceptable, and how that contrasts with Peter who has such a rigid sense of right and wrong."

    Also, Queenpin was worth it. Not that she should've stayed that way, but the catharsis readers felt when that rift was mended last year already makes it worth it, not even considering that it was the only new idea anyone thought up for her in years and it allowed her to stretch her legs in other books. Nick's Heist arc would've had its limbs blown off without that era, it gives him more to work with now that she's going to be central to his run, it significantly raised her MU profile, and all the things she did during it blow open an entire new ocean of possibilities for her in future stories.
    I don't see how Queenpin was worth it at all, Felicia returning to normal during Venom Inc wasn't well made since she was still villanous during the story and only seemed to go back because she lost her empire, then we have Venom saying "New York always needs more heroes" and... She goes back to normal? Makes no sense since she didn't want to go back.

    And Spencer's story had no need for her past as Queenpin since it only gets a few brief mentions, which are basicaly "I'm not evil anymore, let's find the stolen shit", which Spidey's reaction is "Alright", and then he tried to pin part of the reason she went Queenpin on her not remembering Spidey's identity, which, is ridiculous.

    So basicaly, the Queenpin era was her being out of character for a few years, her return is only cathartic because the readers wanted her to not be Queenpin and not because it was well made, so in other words it's "We're glad Felicia doesn't suck anymore", and knowing Marvel, they'll just sweep this under the rug and pretend it never happened, so I don't see how it raises her profile or makes room for more stories.

  7. #7
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I don't see how Queenpin was worth it at all, Felicia returning to normal during Venom Inc wasn't well made since she was still villanous during the story and only seemed to go back because she lost her empire, then we have Venom saying "New York always needs more heroes" and... She goes back to normal? Makes no sense since she didn't want to go back.

    And Spencer's story had no need for her past as Queenpin since it only gets a few brief mentions, which are basicaly "I'm not evil anymore, let's find the stolen shit", which Spidey's reaction is "Alright", and then he tried to pin part of the reason she went Queenpin on her not remembering Spidey's identity, which, is ridiculous.

    So basicaly, the Queenpin era was her being out of character for a few years, her return is only cathartic because the readers wanted her to not be Queenpin and not because it was well made, so in other words it's "We're glad Felicia doesn't suck anymore", and knowing Marvel, they'll just sweep this under the rug and pretend it never happened, so I don't see how it raises her profile or makes room for more stories.
    Venom Inc. left her position open for the next writer, because that is her last Slott story. It wasn't meant to definitively say that she's going to swing either way, because that limits the next creator. And it's Black Cat, we shouldn't want to know what her next step is.

    The real climax of the Heist arc, the rooftop scene, is shattered to pieces if those characters had their normal dynamic and it just added the secret identity back. But instead, it was this meaningful moment because it fully mends a rift that was there for five years. This doesn't have to be explicitly stated and Queenpin doesn't have to be referenced a bunch of times, because it's just true. That's why it worked for so many people.

    If you felt so strongly in your dislike of Queenpin that you could never see the character doing that and just thought it sucked and should be ended, then that means its conclusion adds more catharsis, it doesn't devalue it. That's good. And as for the MU aspect, it objectively made her interact with a broader range of characters that she normally wouldn't have, and there were many stories that can be utilized for future ones. With the broad range of possibilites, you can't say that such a major, and one of the only really notable eras of the character will be ignored 4eva.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say Felicia in Heist was going "full on hero". I thought it made sense with her pre-Queenpin portrayals, yes she's a thief and looks out for herself, but she's usually going after scummy people, and if an innocent is in danger, she'll jump in to help.

    She even tells the Guild in the issue, stealing from the superheroes is going too far, at least the A-listers like Iron Man, Captain America, etc., not because their good guys, but because they need that stuff to help innocent people. And it's a distinction like that I think really gives her character that extra bit of dimensions that makes her so engaging.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Replying to MP95 from the previous thread:



    I don't really think that just because they did one terrible thing with her character that they should be going to the other end, sure, heroic Felicia is far more fitting than that train wreck that Queenpin was, but even so it's not really fitting for her either, plus during that story itself Felicia was too serious, plus she was just saying she was going to steal shit, which, wasn't even hinted she did at any point too.

    And while I'm aware it sounds like I'm saying Spencer did a bad job with her, I don't actualy think so, it's a situation that is arguably fitting for her to sound more heroic and serious, since stealing from so many heroes is a big deal, and no character should be static to the point they always react to shit the same way, everytime, I'm giving Spencer the benefit of the doubt, but if she shows up again in a less serious situation, but still has that seriousness and hero-talk, then it's gonna be weird characterization for her.

    Oh and, and I had forgotten to mention, the scene where Felicia learns that Spidey caused a memory-wipe, her included, and he never revealed his identity to her and she was sad over it, then he revealed it to her again, pretty good scene, I wasn't even expecting it, I thought this story would be done only to help stabilish that Felicia left the Queenpin crap behind and is more to the heroic side again, not that she'd also get to re-learn Spidey's secret identity, really, why didn't anyone talk about this in the last thread? Lol
    Agreed about it being weird if she always has that serious hero-talk. I think the upcoming "Hunted" tie-in issue on March is going to be entirely from Felicia's perspective (and maybe be a way to set-up her own series since Nick Spencer has wanted that for years). I'm looking forward to seeing her interactions with Fred when she finds about him being Peter's roommate. It has to happen and it would be such a delight given their... history.

  10. #10
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    UGH SLAY QUEEN

    https://twitter.com/IbanCoelloSoria/...08125550641152



    AY YO IS IT MARCH YET?
    Yo, that artwork is lit.
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  11. #11
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Venom Inc. left her position open for the next writer, because that is her last Slott story. It wasn't meant to definitively say that she's going to swing either way, because that limits the next creator. And it's Black Cat, we shouldn't want to know what her next step is.
    Except the story didn't build her up in a way that she could go either way, it just showed her being that evil version still, but then the end it shows that she'll take the path to stop being evil.

    And also they clearly planned to make her go back to normal, to the point that she got redeemed twice, since it happened in the Deffenders too.

    The real climax of the Heist arc, the rooftop scene, is shattered to pieces if those characters had their normal dynamic and it just added the secret identity back. But instead, it was this meaningful moment because it fully mends a rift that was there for five years. This doesn't have to be explicitly stated and Queenpin doesn't have to be referenced a bunch of times, because it's just true. That's why it worked for so many people.

    If you felt so strongly in your dislike of Queenpin that you could never see the character doing that and just thought it sucked and should be ended, then that means its conclusion adds more catharsis, it doesn't devalue it. That's good. And as for the MU aspect, it objectively made her interact with a broader range of characters that she normally wouldn't have, and there were many stories that can be utilized for future ones. With the broad range of possibilites, you can't say that such a major, and one of the only really notable eras of the character will be ignored 4eva.
    Again, if Felicia going back to normal has to rely on "Felicia doesn't suck anymore" instead of "Felicia's character got developed well to go back to normal", then it's bad, readers who approve of it generaly don't care how she goes back to normal, just the fact she did is good enough for them because that's the only real priority, Marvel purposedly made her go out of character for years, then made a hilariously half assed "redemption" to try to make the character look good, and that's just bad writing, one people are okay with it just because it brings the character back to normal, hell, the same thing happened with MJ in Spencer's own run, Peter tries to get back together with her, she accepts it, and they just pretend that Slott's last issues didn't happen, instead of, y'know, organicaly making MJ solve all the blatant issues she had to then get back together with him.

    As for character interactions she got in Queenpin era, it's not even that many, and generaly it seemed that characters already knew her. And I can almost bet without fear that Marvel is gonna bury Queenpin era with only occasional mentions because, well, they just do that lol, but we'll wait and see for that one, I just really don't think they'll go for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I wouldn't say Felicia in Heist was going "full on hero". I thought it made sense with her pre-Queenpin portrayals, yes she's a thief and looks out for herself, but she's usually going after scummy people, and if an innocent is in danger, she'll jump in to help.

    She even tells the Guild in the issue, stealing from the superheroes is going too far, at least the A-listers like Iron Man, Captain America, etc., not because their good guys, but because they need that stuff to help innocent people. And it's a distinction like that I think really gives her character that extra bit of dimensions that makes her so engaging.
    The thing that strikes me as odd there is her making such blatant heroic speech in that case, she always seemed the type to perhaps think those things, but not say 'em like that, that and how she never actualy stole anything, or attempted to, it's why I find her odd in these issues, but as I said before, can make sense in the situation.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by MP95 View Post
    Agreed about it being weird if she always has that serious hero-talk. I think the upcoming "Hunted" tie-in issue on March is going to be entirely from Felicia's perspective (and maybe be a way to set-up her own series since Nick Spencer has wanted that for years). I'm looking forward to seeing her interactions with Fred when she finds about him being Peter's roommate. It has to happen and it would be such a delight given their... history.
    Oh she's gonna be in Hunted, somehow forgot about that, hope she's used well on it.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 01-04-2019 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    UGH SLAY QUEEN

    https://twitter.com/IbanCoelloSoria/...08125550641152



    AY YO IS IT MARCH YET?
    Gorgeous. Can this artist be doing Hunted instead of Ramos?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I don't really think that just because they did one terrible thing with her character that they should be going to the other end, sure, heroic Felicia is far more fitting than that train wreck that Queenpin was, but even so it's not really fitting for her either, plus during that story itself Felicia was too serious, plus she was just saying she was going to steal shit, which, wasn't even hinted she did at any point too.
    I prefer a Felicia who's more heroic and on the up-and-up but isn't averse to breaking the law or thieving if she needs to (and still kind of enjoys it), but is still the better person Spidey helped her become.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Also, Queenpin was worth it. Not that she should've stayed that way, but the catharsis readers felt when that rift was mended last year already makes it worth it, not even considering that it was the only new idea anyone thought up for her in years and it allowed her to stretch her legs in other books. Nick's Heist arc would've had its limbs blown off without that era, it gives him more to work with now that she's going to be central to his run, it significantly raised her MU profile, and all the things she did during it blow open an entire new ocean of possibilities for her in future stories.
    I admit that Felicia appeared a lot in other books as the Queenpin, but she was written as such a shallow, 2-dimensional, character in those guest spots that I'm not sure what the benefit really was.

    I doubt anyone who read a lot of her Queenpin appearances got a good glimpse as to what her character actually is. Queenpin Black Cat was a mustache-twirling villain who half the time wasn't even that effective and competent a crime boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Venom Inc. left her position open for the next writer, because that is her last Slott story. It wasn't meant to definitively say that she's going to swing either way, because that limits the next creator. And it's Black Cat, we shouldn't want to know what her next step is.
    Remember her getting a lecture on heroism from Venom of all people? Jeez .
    If you felt so strongly in your dislike of Queenpin that you could never see the character doing that and just thought it sucked and should be ended, then that means its conclusion adds more catharsis, it doesn't devalue it. That's good. And as for the MU aspect, it objectively made her interact with a broader range of characters that she normally wouldn't have, and there were many stories that can be utilized for future ones. With the broad range of possibilites, you can't say that such a major, and one of the only really notable eras of the character will be ignored 4eva.
    I really can't see her Queenpin tenure playing into her actions with other characters in the future since most of it would just consist of "Why are you not in jail after trying to kill me/killing someone I know and why are we letting you anywhere near the hero community?" which would probably get old fast.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    UGH SLAY QUEEN

    https://twitter.com/IbanCoelloSoria/...08125550641152



    AY YO IS IT MARCH YET?
    Vey nice, I so hope Peter and Felicia share a romantic moment (at least a kiss) due to the tension they are placed in during Hunted (even if they come to their senses later on). Hey us Peter/Felicia fan have to take whatever small victories we can get lol.
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    Felicia is about the opposite of MJ in some ways, she's not as fully trustworthy as MJ however unlike MJ Felicia could have a home life with Peter and then when trouble arises go out to stop it with him...still would like to somehow have Felicia/Peter/MJ, just the three together but I'm not going to hold my breath...

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    Fantastic Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Spiderman does have the best girls doesn't he? Anyway hoping she continues to be a supporting character in the Amazing Spiderman storyline expect great things for her this year!

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