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  1. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    What? Does Marvel know that?

    LMAO
    I've read stories lately where I think both Thor and Strange have done distant interstellar movement; whether they can zip to Andromeda or the Virgo Supercluster in a fraction of a second, I'm not sure, but I haven't seen them to be reliant on ships, like the New Mutants are being shown to be right now.

  2. #1007
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    In the past Limbo was used for her to teleport in that she needed to go there first, which could serve as a workaround for her to do intergalactic travel. Bring that back and make a plot point of saying thats not a viable option bc Limbo is harmful to Krakoa which would fit in with past continuity bc Krakoa is infected with the TO virus and we've seen that not mesh well with Limbo in the past. That would explain why they cant bring the Krakoa flower to Limbo and mutants that have recently been to Limbo cant be on Krakoa bc they become toxic. For this reason Illyana must limit teleportation through Limbo, which is required when going long distances. Thats a simple enough reason that explains away why they even need a space ship without ignoring her powers and it being a plot hole

  3. #1008
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    In the past Limbo was used for her to teleport in that she needed to go there first, which could serve as a workaround for her to do intergalactic travel. Bring that back and make a plot point of saying thats not a viable option bc Limbo is harmful to Krakoa which would fit in with past continuity bc Krakoa is infected with the TO virus and we've seen that not mesh well with Limbo in the past. That would explain why they cant bring the Krakoa flower to Limbo and mutants that have recently been to Limbo cant be on Krakoa bc they become toxic. For this reason Illyana must limit teleportation through Limbo, which is required when going long distances. Thats a simple enough reason that explains away why they even need a space ship without ignoring her powers and it being a plot hole
    She still has to port through Limbo to go anywhere else. That never changed.

  4. #1009
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    She still has to port through Limbo to go anywhere else. That never changed.
    We never see it, so its easy enough to accept that she doesnt need to for shorter distances.

    Something like this is so instantaneous that I dont feel like she's bringing anyone through Limo considering how short the distance is



    Hope's used her power and I dont think she teleported through Limbo
    Last edited by Havok83; 11-18-2019 at 12:20 PM.

  5. #1010
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    We never see it, so its easy enough to accept that she doesnt need to for shorter distances.
    Sorry, No

    That is how her power works. Just because we do not see it every time she teleports, doesn't mean it is not happening.

  6. #1011
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    I've read stories lately where I think both Thor and Strange have done distant interstellar movement; whether they can zip to Andromeda or the Virgo Supercluster in a fraction of a second, I'm not sure, but I haven't seen them to be reliant on ships, like the New Mutants are being shown to be right now.
    Strange's teleportation is probably on the same level as Illyana's. Thor's seem more like the fast travel option in video games.
    "Cable was right!"

  7. #1012
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    "I can move wherever I wish in the blink of an eye"

    "I thought I neutralized this annoying talent of yours" : Belasco

    "Wrong again...about that and so many other things." : Illyana


    2 questions to answer aloud (with or without continuity) before continuing.

    when will you come back?
    did you keep your promise?

    (whispers) psssst, what other things?
    Last edited by sungila; 11-18-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  8. #1013
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    Sorry, No

    That is how her power works. Just because we do not see it every time she teleports, doesn't mean it is not happening.
    Its a no prize answer that works for me and makes more sense than she all of a sudden not being able to teleport long distance

  9. #1014
    Fantastic Member Mr Abductor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Strange's teleportation is probably on the same level as Illyana's. Thor's seem more like the fast travel option in video games.
    Any knowledgeable fans know of her physical strength, durability and speed?
    Not finding anything on respect threads.

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    I originally disliked the time slippage gimmick, thinking it might be an act for underestimation & so she didn't dwarf the rest of the group, but now I feel it made sense.

    In terms of 'effort', she only ever seemed stressed by the *size* of the Inferno Times Square disk, plus was defeated by barriers of the Adversary, Enchantress, and the Hydra takeover.

    For me her limit wasn't strength, but precision & aim.

    The fact is, that there is a LOT of space-time, billions of years and light-years to choose from, like finding a particular grain of sand in all the beaches of the world.

    Many mutant powers come with extra senses, like Ororo's elemental awareness, Richtor & Magma's perception of the Earth etc.

    Somehow Magik can sense going-on within Limbo while on Earth (can give demons orders with no visible interactions) and on Earth from Limbo, but what direction do you point to go to when John Fitzgerald Kennedy assassinated president Oswald?

    A one-eyed horseshoe player might have perfect angle throws, but getting the depth right would be hard, and would get worse the greater the overall range

    I suspect when she departs Earth, Asgaard, Hala etc, that she leaves an 'anchor' trail, a bookmark 'search history’ that lets her easily go back close to where she started, rather than having to search through all the galaxies, millennia, and alternate histories of the multiverse every time. It isn't a matter of having to go through all the books of the library of Congress every teleport, but I suspect the time element was like loosing track of which page of a particular book she was reading.

    Later she developed scrying pools that allowed her to view the target area, summon a disk there, and only step through if a portal opens where the screen is aimed. I refer specifically to TNM v1 #46, the issue where she kidnaps Moira to provide medical care in the Mutant Massacre, and they have to wait a few minutes to synchronize until after the time they left before re-entering Earth (demonstrating she could spy on anywhen and anywhere, tracking histories, recovering lost artifacts etc.)

    (Does anyone remember a panel when Illyana held a dozen candle-flame sized portals floating around her head? We hardly ever saw Illyana practicing her powers, and unlike Cannonball endlessly trying to learn to maneuver, we basically never saw her try out or experiment with her time-travel abilities, given that finding her way back from an error might be insurmountable.

    (If you accidentally end up in Guam you could take a flight back, but if you end up in a timesteam where the letter 'C' was never invented, how do you get back if you haven't left a trail behind? There are a transinfinite possible histories, with a lot more than 3 dimensions of directions to search through, if you've ever watched the series 'Sliders’ for example.

    (I also always wondered about using the disks as 'botched' teleports, say pushing a disk through an object to leave a hole, having two sides in the ocean or core of the Earth or sun to create a firehose of water, lava, or plasma, or closing one that's halfway through a person for chopping/decapitation purposes etc...
    I feel you on that I’ve always wanted to see her use her disk more Offensively

  11. #1016
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    We never see it, so its easy enough to accept that she doesnt need to for shorter distances.

    Something like this is so instantaneous that I dont feel like she's bringing anyone through Limo considering how short the distance is



    Hope's used her power and I dont think she teleported through Limbo
    The stepping discs are generated in Limbo. All discs lead to Limbo. This has been established...

    001.jpg

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shankarma1 View Post
    I feel you on that I’ve always wanted to see her use her disks more offensively
    We've seen Magik do offensively damaging ports against Magus in TNM v1 #50 while he was tearing apart a planet, against Dark Beast recently (although I think she's secretly got Dank's living severed head in a jar somewhen in Limbo), and in X-Men Gold #25 Illyana dismembered the space god Scythian, a being the rest of the X-Men never significantly harmed in any way (Kitty helped phase a harpoon through him, but that didn't seem to hurt him any.)

    However as was pointed out earlier, if Illyana sits in her throne room in Limbo, where her power is at its greatest, and time dilation can be at least thirty million to one, there is no reason Magik physically couldn't decapitate entire armies on Earth in the blink of an eye...

    However, she might be limited metaphysically:

    Metaphysically, Vampires are forbidden to enter into homes without being invited, and Magik used to have limitations on who she did teleport to Limbo (whether she couldn't or wouldn't is unclear.)

    As a Hell Lord, Magik is actually technically Damning everyone she draws into Limbo, in the same way Star Trek transporters could technically be called murder/suicide machines that disintegrate their victims (the fact similar bodies are assembled elsewhere says nothing about the deaths of the originals, or the fate of their Immortal Souls)

    Mephisto, Hela, Cyttorak, and the other Hell Lords are metaphysically forbidden to draw random living mortals into their realms, and early on in the New Mutants, until she fought the Smileys & the Animator in Fall of the Mutants, Magik only ever teleported allies and defeated enemies into Limbo. (Teleporting Karma/Shadow King into Limbo would have saved a lot of steps back in TNM v1 #34, but would have made the rest of them utterly redundant.)

    Like Star Trek transporters, Illyana's stepping disks are potentially almost infinitely deadly, limited only by shields opaque to their energies. Teleporting explosives, poison gases, antimatter, or demon hordes is nasty, but transporting half the atoms, or even worse, half the electrons of a target, is utter annihilation.

    When Selene called her back, Blink had the ability to shred targets, and I see no reason that Illyana couldn't do the same, or at the very least, carry dangerous/immobilizing materials to a target, if she's metaphysically forbidden to teleport undefeated mortals into Limbo.

    Illyana 2.0 has shown fewer and fewer limitations on her teleports, and if dismembering space gods, decapitating prisoners, plus mass transports of civilians, active enemy platoons, Inhumans, and tricked Frost Giants is any indication, Continuity verifies her as a weapon of mass destruction worthy of inclusion in the Extinction Squad (although what she did to the Elder Gods is the best example of all, repetitious replay time travel trumping even unlimited teleportation.)

  13. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Abductor View Post
    Any knowledgeable fans know of her physical strength, durability and speed?
    Not finding anything on respect threads.
    She's Olympic athlete level in mortal form, multi-ton as simple Darkchilde, and Hulk-level when in full SoulArmored Darkchilde mode, when she tossed transmode enhanced S'ym around like a rag doll, regular S'ym having beaten alternate versions of Colossus & Wolverine to death.

    In Limbo, she can tear apart reality, and so is effectively infinite, at least until tested by Magus, Galactus, Beyonders, or Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet. (Technically the time she pounded on S'ym was during Inferno, when New York was infected by Limbonic energies, but she had previously taken punches from the Blob as partially armored Darkchilde without Limbonic enhancement, and was barely stunned.)

    Remember too that she passed on taking the strength of Juggernaut when offered by Cyttorak Himself simply because she preferred to give a lesson about tainted Power to her brother, and recently she curbstomped Jugs effortlessly without bothering to take his strength.

    Adding in teleportation where she's sometimes shown dodging bullets & lasers etc, she should fight like a combo of Beast & Nightcrawler in Darkchilde form without armour, and approaching Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet if she adds in full armor, magic, and abuses teleportation, much less time travel.

    (Note that Stepping Disks give her power over Space and Time, her mental barriers and memory spells show partial mastery of Mind, magic & Sword give her mastery over Soul, in Limbo she controls Reality, and during Inferno she clearly embodied Power. On the whole, using her full mutant-HellLord powers at their maximum, she should be considered on par with Thanos wearing Gauntlet... and would have just as much trouble making friends :'-(
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-19-2019 at 04:21 PM.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    In the past Limbo was used for her to teleport in that she needed to go there first, which could serve as a workaround for her to do intergalactic travel. Bring that back and make a plot point of saying thats not a viable option bc Limbo is harmful to Krakoa which would fit in with past continuity bc Krakoa is infected with the TO virus and we've seen that not mesh well with Limbo in the past. That would explain why they cant bring the Krakoa flower to Limbo and mutants that have recently been to Limbo cant be on Krakoa bc they become toxic. For this reason Illyana must limit teleportation through Limbo, which is required when going long distances. Thats a simple enough reason that explains away why they even need a space ship without ignoring her powers and it being a plot hole
    Very, very interesting no-prize worthy explanation: Krakoan life is killed by exposure to Limbonic energies! (Others have discusssed the relationship of Limbo with Krakoa, and there's that bit about Black Blossoms opening a passage to a place Krakoa had no knowledge of... Limbo?)

    I have long held the theory, and I have yet to see evidence against Limbo having been totally vaccinated/toxic to T/O virus since Inferno.

    In Fall of the New Mutants, she refused to let Warlock stay in Limbo, and it is self-evident that although Limbo & Inferno were terminally afflicted by metastatic T/O, there isn't the faintest trace of it anymore, despite Limbo being filled with stepping disks that allow time travel. That means all the demons infected during Inferno are either quarantined against travel through stepping disks before Magus & after Inferno, or they are cured/killed in the attempt.

    Given that S'ym & N'astirh were both infected during Inferno & cured afterward, I suspect the LightChilde vaccinated all of Limbo before & after Magus/Inferno so that anyone infected is cured of it if exposed to Limbo for longer than seconds (thus her & possibly Wolfsbane shrugging it off in the recent period with O.N.E. . I suspect Illyana has inoculated herself against any & all technological infection ever since she discovered Dark Beast had broken their powers after AvX, and was just playacting when she pwned Juggernaut & O.N.E. and 'reverted' to demonic form.)
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-18-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  15. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    We never see it, so its easy enough to accept that she doesnt need to for shorter distances.

    Something like this is so instantaneous that I dont feel like she's bringing anyone through Limo considering how short the distance is



    Hope's used her power and I dont think she teleported through Limbo

    Due to my headcanon "Magik Throws Fights”, I never believed 1) that Hope actually used Illyana's powers or 2) that Sinister actually overcame Magik's mental shields.

    It's been shown that as Hell Lord of Limbo, Illyana can block all access to Limbo against all rivals. Not that Hope is worthy of being called a rival, but Magik's Hell Lord mastery, and Belasco's & Dormammu's spells have been shown to defeat Illyana's mutant powers in the past.

    If Hope did temporarily copy Magik's powers to travel to Limbo, once Hope arrived, she'd be in a completely different dimension from Magik, would lose the powers, and so would be trapped as demonchow.

    My "no-prize" explanation is that Magik's "Extraordinarily Powerful and Sophisticated Psionic Shields" tricked Sinister into believing she was under his control, at which point Magik was the one who ported Hope to & from Limbo...

    Regarding teleporting through Limbo, except for the period Limbo was inside of her, all travel was through stepping disks & through Limbo. (While Limbo was within Magik, they traveled through swirling flames & demonic images to locations, the stepping disks & Limbo being non-existent at that time.)

    Back during Claremont's reign, I spoke with him about Illyana simultaneously summoning a pair of disks, held parallel and separated by an inch or two in Limbo, which would let her effectively bridge portals on Earth.

    Trickier would be if in addition she separated the disks by a second or more, which would allow them to arrive at destination before departing, slowed by delays, or numbed by time dilation. (If time in Limbo is maintained faster than on Earth, bloodflow could be reduced or effectively stopped, letting her 'knock out' or paralyze opponents, like the way an arm or leg "falls asleep" when bloodflow is restricted.)

    Different artists are inconsistent, but if stepping disks are transparent to light or other energies, it might be possible to spy, or even have effective precognition using such methods, plus lasers or magical blasts generated in Limbo could be used on Earth. (Holding portals in front of your eyes separated by a second would allow a second of foresight, plus I mentioned earlier dropping one side into the ocean, Earth's core, or the Sun to deliver blasts of water, lava, or plasma.)

    (Separating disks in time might be limited though, because as a Hell Lord, Illyana can't overlap herself in time. Until Bendis, stepping disks had never caused anyone to overlap themselves outside of Limbo, and Illyana Hell Lord has never been seen to overlap herself. <Yes with Little Snowflake, but not Empress Magik.>)
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-19-2019 at 04:26 PM.

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