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  1. #1036
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    A complete description of all of Belasco's appearances until 2003 can be found here https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/belasco/biography

  2. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont believe Magik had any control during this. She was a raging irrational demon. Yes I believe Hope took her powers. You'll notice that Magik's discs are yellow but when Hope uses it, it's blue. That was the way the artist could showcase who was using it. She knows when she mimics someone; she can feel it. Her powers are vicinity based and she likely lost the teleportation powers after she transported away, but all she needed to do is make one jump. If she went to Limbo, she'd likely be stuck there, which is why I think she didnt port to it.
    I expect that all of the X-Men and O N.E. believed Magik had become demonic here, and that most readers did also.

    Perhaps the mumbling, half conscious Hope is an unimpeachable expert witness.

    Every reader has their own impression of what's happening, and I don't want to put my beliefs ahead of yours, nor say that you must believe what I do because I believe it (that argument is symmetric, and just as much proof I should believe as you do.)

    But I DO believe that from the moment she first took Limbo from Belasco, (much less since defeating the Elder Gods and curbstomping Dormammu), Illyana has always been demonic, as convincing she might appear to be otherwise (the scare tactics she used against Empath & Legion in TNM v1 seem to me to be not the illusion, but the reality unmasked.)

    The Beyonder saw through her disguise in Secret Wars II #1, although Cyttorak & Dormammu were fooled, at least until she was done with them, so I don't expect most mortals would know the difference.

    Imagine Azathoth playing "let's pretend” of being a little girl: that's my headcanon of Illyana.

    Results my vary.

  3. #1038
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    Dumb question: do you think Magik speaks english with an accent?

  4. #1039
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
    Dumb question: do you think Magik speaks english with an accent?
    accent is relative. Considering she grew up in Limbo, most people she encounters would likely say she has an accent

  5. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
    Dumb question: do you think Magik speaks english with an accent?
    Smart question in my opinion, which I've considered many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    accent is relative. Considering she grew up in Limbo, most people she encounters would likely say she has an accent
    I expect that since Illyana can speak dozens of demonic languages with the absolute precision that spellcasting requires (I'm talking to you, Doug, alleged "master of translation"), I assume Illyana can speak many languages with any accent she prefers, like a skilled mutilingual actress (ie experienced liar).

    I suspect she normally affects a Russian accent, if she's still pretending she learned English from Xavier, rather than an Italian accent if she learned it from Belasco... Or maybe Swahili if learned from Ororo, or Illinois (distorted by fangs) if learned from Cat, or an unidentifiable baseline mix of all of them.
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-19-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  6. #1041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas View Post
    Dumb question: do you think Magik speaks english with an accent?
    Logical answer is it depends on the writer. Every writer has their own take on an already established character.

  7. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    A complete description of all of Belasco's appearances until 2003 can be found here https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/belasco/biography
    That was incredibly helpful, sunofdarkchild ! ! !

    Yeah, I remember now the overlap of Belasco with the Fantastic Four and the Beyonders; Illyana seems to have some overlap with those pesky omnipotent hidden beings, one in particular who wanted her to start a cult worshipping him.

    {Sometimes I wonder if the Beyonder gave her a power-up in Secret Wars II #1, given that she had never been shown to have true reality warping until after that.}

    I guess I'll have to order a bunch of backissues of Excalibur to fill in WitchFire's story.

  8. #1043
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    What's interesting to me is Xavier did not download language or langages into Illyana. Or did he? I can't remember if she spoke any English before Limbo or if Xavier ever invaded her mind before he couldn't. Personally, I'd be lying if I didn't admit sometimes transliterization really works for me when it works as an intimacey, but it's a very very precarious device, and if used poorly is not just distracting but adverse to intimacey, depth and individuality. I'd be happier with the *from the Russian asterisk or in Russian untranslated when appropriate. Maybe she has a demon accent, or a spell casting casting spell stutter? Maybe she has a silent accent? It's a good question. How someone coumicates is so much of who we are. Also comics have lots of interesting and idiosyncratic grammars and gestures for language, line and voice. My forum voice is (it could be) me in a undeliverable box between boxes of correspondences. And that could be because of my accent or problems with addressing. Or lack of tenable meaning and incorrect postage. Also, accent can evaporate into a dominant lanaguage and become invisible yet indelible. One could never be understood, and in explaining, be misunderstood, and yet have been wrong about the original misunderstanding all along, thus causing the misunderstanding.
    Last edited by sungila; 11-20-2019 at 01:31 AM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  9. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    What's interesting to me is Xavier did not download language or langages into Illyana. Or did he? I can't remember if she spoke any Russian before Limbo or if Xavier ever invaded her mind before he couldn't. Personally, I'd be lying if I didn't admit sometimes transliterization really works for me when it works as an intimacey, but it's a very very precarious device, and if used poorly is not just distracting but adverse to intimacey, depth and individuality. I'd be happier with the *from the Russian asterisk or in Russian untranslated when appropriate. Maybe she has a demon accent, or a spell casting casting spell stutter? Maybe she has a silent accent? It's a good question. How someone coumicates is so much of who we are. Also comics have lots of interesting and idiosyncratic grammars and gestures for language, line and voice. My forum voice is (it could be) me in a undeliverable box between boxes of correspondences. And that could be because of my accent or problems with addressing. Or lack of tenable meaning and incorrect postage. Also, accent can evaporate into a dominant lanaguage and become invisible yet indelible. One could never be understood, and in explaining, be misunderstood, and yet have been wrong about the original misunderstanding all along, thus causing the misunderstanding.
    IMHO this is the smoking gun, from UXM v1 #164

    It's my first time attaching a picture, so I hope it's clear enough to read

    As with the recent discussion, I believe she's testing the strength of Xavier's telepathy by lying to his face about him teaching her English

    Others might take it as evidence that since she said he did, it means that he ACTUALLY taught her English telepathically, despite not being able to read her mind

    I take this as evidence that she can magically leave telepaths with the false impression that they had read her (decoy) mind, and spoof them so thoroughly that they can't recognize logical inconsistencies in those thoughts later on (the implanted thoughts are apparently surrounded by barriers of confabulation, self-sealing bias etc)

    I assume these "Extraordinarily Powerful and Sophisticated Psionic Shields" are based on spells and techniques necessary for deceiving & hiding thoughts from Belasco during her apprenticeship

    I furthermore think she imposes such blurred thoughts, not just as a shield from telepaths, but as a weapon against non-telepaths at other times

    One example is when the New Mutants rode beasts in Limbo for weeks rather than teleporting from place to place, and no one asked why (Warlock having been excluded), plus all the manipulations she did from her return through the Phoenix Five, although that might also show her mastery of playing with humans like chess pieces, at the level of Doom, Fisk, and Sinister

    Some opponents forget her from one fight to the next, or discount her abilities in later fights, and some readers might include her use of Intimidating Glances as a mental power (I count that as taking off her civilized mask and showing the killer beneath, like Wolverine does to cause others to back down.)

    We know from her interior dialog in TNM v1 #14 that she edited Stevie Hunter's memory of the fight with S'ym to erase all knowledge of Illyana's magical powers, and incidentally erasing any trace that Illyana ever had mind altering powers, which she only uses implicitly after this (we also never see her using astral form after getting blasted by Emma in #15... I don't know if she stopped, or just never got blasted again, but we know she continued doing rituals in her room thereafter, but like Xavier, she probably abuses her mental powers, thinking "It's OK when *I* do it."


    "I can do neat things too, just like Piotr."

    "Such as what?"

    Oh...
    Things.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-20-2019 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #1045
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    This is the smoking gun, from UXM v1 #164

    It's my first time attaching a picture, so I hope it's clear enough to read

    As with the recent discussion, I believe she's testing the strength of Xavier's telepathy by lying to his face about him teaching her English

    Others might take it as evidence that since she said he did, it means that he DID teach her English telepathically, despite not being able to read her mind

    I take this as evidence that she can magically leave telepaths with the false impression that they had read her (decoy) mind, and spoof them so thoroughly that they can't recognize logical inconsistencies in those thoughts later on (the implanted thoughts being surrounded by barriers of confabulation, self-sealing bias etc, I assume based on spells necessary for deceiving & hiding thoughts from Belasco during her apprenticeship.)


    "I can do neat things too, just like Piotr."

    "Such as what?"

    Oh...
    Things.
    Oh yes, this scene, thank you (once again) GORM

    I really hope that Illyana is purposefully poking the Prof's bleeding heart, here.
    Just look at her while he thinks to himself about her.
    Just look at him and what's he after anyway?

    Oh I know, he's dealing with a lot (my heart my cause but not my wallet)...just look at that spread!?

    Okay, so is Xavier really not a self proclaimed ruler of his kingdom is Illyana not a problematic yet potentially powerful new recruit in his grand scheme...she knows the score, she's been there before...and shouldn't we agree that all mansions are haunted places?

    Especially those with 'danger rooms' and a white mind controlling 'older' gentleman - the orphanage

    The orchard and the sword

    And black as the splat of an acorn

    I do believe she might be smiling about that scene in Bendis' UXM with Strange when she's supposedly talking in her sleep and wakes and when she opens her eyes...does it even matter which older gentleman is glaring at her?

    You know the more I read and re-read Illyana's story the more important and no less messy and utterly weird and atrociously interesting is Louise Simonson's ending arching Inferno as I do believe that it's truly she who most realized Magik's full potential and unique place in all of Marvel U.

    Wells got it too.

    But damn Louise! Didn't Daredevil duel a vacuum cleaner during Inferno?

    And didn't Strange sit it out in his mansion because he was like (I'm paraphrasing but) what's a caped guy gonna do about the weather?

    When it rains...you get wet.

    Dante and Who Framed Roger Rabbit and another set in New York City

    If Hell's Kitchen was burning with all its Gotham-Empire State-Scorsese drama and the Stay Puff Marshmallow man came caramelizing through and the Phoenix was wings up back to feeling everybody look past and through her...and Madelyn Pryor was suddenly like...'oh damn' it'd be because Illyana could be dreaming (or levitating wrong side out over a pentagram) or playing a game of summonsing or just sitting at a table...alone...not eating...not at the table...because she hates what they're having "you know the age".

    The odd feeling of being displaced by the guests...so maybe you get your friend's dragon and then come back...and to get back...you have them all face you and stay up all night telling ghost stories, you make them the other kids so they'll at least maybe 'get' you a little or enough to get away...lol.

    I think she sometimes thinks all this shit is funny...and I think sometimes it isn't.

    Okay okay, so Inferno did something amazing because there were way too many threads to weave together in comic book super hero format, which is great, takes lots of work to make a stack of highly flammable panels and so, taking all these twistable fuses and finger crossing them synch'd up tales and spinning whirly tails and tossing (pet rock weight) the tonnage of heaps and all homages and great and small works, prodigious and profane into a campfire funeral pyre night light - lantern of BURN IT DOWN!

    But, it's a simple wish and a candle
    a child

    in the end

    'Yanna who doesn't eat cake...or I guess, might get caught binging one of the many made for another kid
    Last edited by sungila; 11-20-2019 at 03:56 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  11. #1046
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    @sungila:

    Speaking of Xavier and haunted houses, I strongly recommend rereading TNM v1 #2&3 plus UXM v1 #167&168 (Illyana doesn't use her powers in #3, but it is an extremely important character establishing moment, as is #168, "Xavier Is A Jerk", which features Kitty & Illyana's friendship at its finest)

    Like Xavier's impulse to recruit the All New, All Different X-Men after an encounter with Krakoa, at the time of his talk with Illyana here, Xavier has already been infected by a Brood embryo implanted within him, growing like a hidden, hungry, infectious cancer

    I don't know what that implies about current Krakoa and Xavier, but the impulse to recruit the New Mutants was explicitly at the behest of the Brood within looking for more Superior genetic material to infect (just like how Krakoa was hungry for more Mutants in Giant's Sized X-Men #1... and perhaps still is right now? )

    The original formation of the X-Men and Brotherhood of the Evil Mutants by Xavier and Magneto was symbolically related to Martin Luther King Jr & the Freedom Riders contrasting Malcolm X & the Black Panthers

    But the New Mutants might be closer to the sense of the child soldiers of Joseph Kony. The New Mutants & Hellions were officially sort of students offered scholarships to study & learn to use their mutant powers, but in practice they were paramilitary forces, led (and indoctrinated) by telepaths

    What that means is up to the reader to decide
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-20-2019 at 03:17 PM.

  12. #1047
    Incredible Member kevinism's Avatar
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    Does anyone think the cake thing is an ace reference?

  13. #1048
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinism View Post
    Does anyone think the cake thing is an ace reference?
    Regarding the first and current Cake & Coffee incidents:

    At Moon Girl's party, I think there was an element of Magik's own missed birthdays, plus Moon Girl is the age Illyana was when she was crossing Limbo with Cat.

    There was a lot of observable social anxiety on Magik's part at the party, and again with the Starjammers, so cake & coffee might be a coping mechanism, especially when other people are sending off sexual vibes (that are confusing for ACEs.)

  14. #1049
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    I prefer to think Illyana has an accent, however subtle it may be. I love accents. I love when a writer peppers in bits of Russian in her dialogue. Sparingly, but I find it amusing. I also enjoy the idea that she and Piotr speak Russian to each other.

  15. #1050
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    I'm in the "when she learned English "overnight" she also learned how to pronounce things the localized way" camp. However if Anna Joy has an accent in the movie I won't complain unless it's SUPER thick and she didn't just come off the train from the Russian countryside. I'm still wondering how they will handle her "evil" origin story in a movie friendly way.

    As for the cake thing, it's an interesting choice. After all, she knows what "good food" is as evidenced by Bendis's Uncanny run when Scott sends her to get food and references a particular spot they've obviously been to before (besides you know darn well her and Emma snuck off for fancy dinners and brunch in that time period). I don't think it's as deep as what G0RM says, but I like the analogy. If anything I see it more as a way to make this "tough warrior chic" seem more human and give them an excuse to call her eccentric. I think it's less an anxiety thing and more of a "blow off steam" thing and then gets caught in the act. Closed door Yana might just have a box of Swiss Cake Rolls hidden under her bed (something she might have learned from Kitty in the early years).

    4237065-x1.jpg
    Last edited by pandafarmer; 11-21-2019 at 07:22 AM.

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