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  1. #256
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandafarmer View Post
    Honestly though for a b-list X-Man she certainly has seen her share of juicy plot points since resurrection. Her resurrection basically gave Pixie motivations and established her power level to those who were raised on 90's X-Books. During Second Coming they basically gave her storyline it's own book followed by the San Fran years she was a key member of the team and her storyline acted as motivation for Pitor while the rest of the New Mutants cavorted without her in a poorly written set of storylines. Then she was "one of the five" in AvsX and even bested Black Widow in the "VS" books. Bendis pushed her into an interesting direction in his Uncanny (for the first half of his run anyway) and addressed some of her ongoing issues within Limbo and gave us some of the best "Kitty/Yana" interactions in years. Then she joins Storm's team as an interesting plot device (bringing the X-mansion to Limbo and Sapna's weird storyline) and remained active into AvsI. Then Secret Warriors and Dead Souls took her out of X-book rotation for the most part but at least gave her character some development outside of "B-List" background character that she would have had without those books. Now we have Uncanny, which love or hate... she's got some of the best battle scenes and treated as a respected member of the group by Logan/Scott.

    So yeah, she's secondary, but it's obvious the writers love to work with her since it's a beautiful mix of tragedy and violence the reader loves. When it comes to other secondary characters I can't think of any that have been given more juicy bits than she has. Frankly I'm shocked she hasn't been upped to Psylock levels of exposure but I'm guessing that has more to do with fanboy sex appeal than character in most cases. As sexy as they DO make Yana at times, most of her fans are there because of her "damaged goods" storyline over "hotpants and swords." I think.
    One thing I liked about the latest issue of Uncanny is that Logan actually acts like Illyana is the only one he truly respects. He was trying to convince Illyana to leave with him, probably a veiled attempt to recruit her to the Avengers and steal her away from Scott.

    I think what I would most enjoy for Illyana is if Dr Strange gets badly injured or disappears for a time and he ends up asking Illyana to step in as Sorceress Supreme. Even if it's for a 6 month or one year arc, I would love to see an ongoing book "Sorceress Supreme: Magik" They could even have her show up with the Avengers as a recurring character during her run.

    As for Illyana's sexuality, it's never been truly answered in the books, but I think she probably prefers girls. Since Illyana and Rachel both seem to be hinted at pining away for Shadowcat, I think Yana and Rachel should get together instead and start openly dating. I just want to see that for the all the drama it causes when Kitty gets jealous that the two girls who used to have a crush on her start dating each other.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    One thing I liked about the latest issue of Uncanny is that Logan actually acts like Illyana is the only one he truly respects. He was trying to convince Illyana to leave with him, probably a veiled attempt to recruit her to the Avengers and steal her away from Scott.

    I think what I would most enjoy for Illyana is if Dr Strange gets badly injured or disappears for a time and he ends up asking Illyana to step in as Sorceress Supreme. Even if it's for a 6 month or one year arc, I would love to see an ongoing book "Sorceress Supreme: Magik" They could even have her show up with the Avengers as a recurring character during her run.

    As for Illyana's sexuality, it's never been truly answered in the books, but I think she probably prefers girls. Since Illyana and Rachel both seem to be hinted at pining away for Shadowcat, I think Yana and Rachel should get together instead and start openly dating. I just want to see that for the all the drama it causes when Kitty gets jealous that the two girls who used to have a crush on her start dating each other.
    That would be great. Perhaps a book with Illyana and Rachel could world. I would definitley buy it^^. Two of my favourites X-Men in a team-up book? Oh yes.

    And it is not like that the "more than friends" vibe wasn't were since the 80s between the three of them.

  3. #258
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    I never got any sense that Illyana/Kitty, and especially Illyana/Rachel, were meant to be anything more than just friends.

    I find the “Claremont intended every female to be bisexual” trope so boring.

    Where does the Illyana/Rachel thing even come from? IIRC, they had very few interactions.

    If I thought Illyana was a lesbian, I would feel there is much more to interpret between her & Dani.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    I never got any sense that Illyana/Kitty, and especially Illyana/Rachel, were meant to be anything more than just friends.

    I find the “Claremont intended every female to be bisexual” trope so boring.

    Where does the Illyana/Rachel thing even come from? IIRC, they had very few interactions.

    If I thought Illyana was a lesbian, I would feel there is much more to interpret between her & Dani.
    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Are we really suppose to believe Kitty is the biggest lesbian magnet in the multiverse?

  5. #260
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    I find the “Claremont intended every female to be bisexual” trope so boring.
    It's better than what we ended up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Are we really suppose to believe Kitty is the biggest lesbian magnet in the multiverse?
    Yeah where could that



    possibly



    come from? That scene where Rachel is upset that Colossus is back and could ruin her and Kitty's relationship? just gals being pals. Yana's Soulsword going to Kitty instead of literally any of her other closest friends or family? galpal behavior at its finest.

  6. #261
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    magick does come across as asexual more than gay but that won't stop some deluded fanboys/girls from wishing for more so that they can project their preferences on her which does come across as a unhealthy pursuit.

  7. #262
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Yeah, it's ridiculous. Are we really suppose to believe Kitty is the biggest lesbian magnet in the multiverse?
    No, believe that she attracted two.
    Omega Level Rodent Fighter

  8. #263
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    Kitty getting the soulsword makes perfect sense even without any romantic feelings. The only other person closer to Illyana was Piotr, and what the hell would he use the soulsword for? Would he even want if if he got it?

    As for Rachel and Kitty, I could easily show a bunch of panels under Claremont that people interpreted as romantic, specially, (but not only) under Dani and Rahne, who even had a psychic link, like Scott & Jean. Again, are we supposed to believe that every single teenage girl, without exception, at Xavier's was a lesbian? What are the odds of that?

    Also, it's not like Claremont himself didn't came back in the 00's and could have outed any of these characters. If Karma was by other people, I doubt there would be any objections by editorial, as long as Claremont didn't decide to make the whole team gay, like some want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    No, believe that she attracted two.
    Apparently in Mechanix, Karma also had a crush on her. So, that's 3, every lesbian girl in the X-men has an unrequited crush on Kitty.

    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    magick does come across as asexual more than gay but that won't stop some deluded fanboys/girls from wishing for more so that they can project their preferences on her which does come across as a unhealthy pursuit.
    Yep. She has shown no romantic feelings toward anyone, not that she couldn't in the future, but she didn't so far.

  9. #264
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Saying that you'll show me panels of Dani and Rahne being gay together will somehow prove that point doesn't make the most sense, but go for it. I'm all for some more gay content on these Forums. If you're confused at all by it, just picture if Rahne or Rachel were guys. Dani and Rahne's relationship would exactly mirror Scott and Jean's relationship. And Rachel getting jealous that Piotr, who had just come back from the dead, might mess up things between Kitty and her would seem more like a jealous boyfriend than whatever heterosexual agenda people have forced on that very explicit subtext.

    And the "every single girl Claremont wrote is bi" point, in the context of this situation, had only been brought up by you and Andru. I doubt a whole swarm of people are caping for a Magma or Sage coming out scene the way they are for Katyana or GreyPryde. Claremont himself said "Rachel is the love of Kitty's life," so Kitty's bisexuality would definitely put her close relationships with Magik and Karma in very different lights. Even Bendis gave them an AU ending where the two were "free to live, free to love."

  10. #265
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    Again, if Claremont wanted to have any of the teenage female characters he wrote to be openly gay or bi in the 00's, he could and one would bat an eye; it's not like any of them was Wolverine. Bendis outed Iceman and had more scenes of the two together than any writer since Magik came back, and there was clearly nothing romantic there. As for Rahne and Dani, somebody posted some scenes of that in a thread when it was announced that the NM movie version would be in a gay relationship, I'm too lazy to research.

  11. #266
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Again, if Claremont wanted to have any of the teenage female characters he wrote to be openly gay or bi in the 00's, he could and one would bat an eye; it's not like any of them was Wolverine. Bendis outed Iceman and had more scenes of the two together than any writer since Magik came back, and there was clearly nothing romantic there. As for Rahne and Dani, somebody posted some scenes of that in a thread when it was announced that the NM movie version would be in a gay relationship, I'm too lazy to research.
    people think the '00s are less homophobic than 80s? only by a bit.

    How many gay characters were on books on the last 4 years? only a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Saying that you'll show me panels of Dani and Rahne being gay together will somehow prove that point doesn't make the most sense, but go for it. I'm all for some more gay content on these Forums. If you're confused at all by it, just picture if Rahne or Rachel were guys. Dani and Rahne's relationship would exactly mirror Scott and Jean's relationship. And Rachel getting jealous that Piotr, who had just come back from the dead, might mess up things between Kitty and her would seem more like a jealous boyfriend than whatever heterosexual agenda people have forced on that very explicit subtext.

    And the "every single girl Claremont wrote is bi" point, in the context of this situation, had only been brought up by you and Andru. I doubt a whole swarm of people are caping for a Magma or Sage coming out scene the way they are for Katyana or GreyPryde. Claremont himself said "Rachel is the love of Kitty's life," so Kitty's bisexuality would definitely put her close relationships with Magik and Karma in very different lights. Even Bendis gave them an AU ending where the two were "free to live, free to love."
    People are so threatened by characters possible being gay. Like what if wvery woman Clarement wrote is gay? I doubt we would have this discussion if everyone was straight

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    people think the '00s are less homophobic than 80s? only by a bit.

    How many gay characters were on books on the last 4 years? only a few.
    They were- in the 80's, Shooter said "there are no gay characters at Marvel". Plus, they had the comics code.


    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    p
    People are so threatened by characters possible being gay. Like what if wvery woman Clarement wrote is gay? I doubt we would have this discussion if everyone was straight
    I'll ignore the obvious trolling that is your specialty and seemingly reason of being and point to the logical fact that the number of straight people is a lot higher than the number of gay people, and having a 100% gay/bi rate for teenage women (and only for women, because gay men don't exist) under the same team without them being specifically assembled for this is non-sense, not to mention would add a very uncomfortable subtext (this straight guy who was in his 30's at the time writing a team entirely composed of teenage lesbians who can barely hide their feelings for one another? I'm sure there's nothing creepy about it).

  13. #268
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    Omega you're really obsessed with denying a confirmed fact

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    They were- in the 80's, Shooter said "there are no gay characters at Marvel". Plus, they had the comics code.
    having a 100% gay/bi rate for teenage women (and only for women, because gay men don't exist) under the same team without them being specifically assembled for this is non-sense,
    so was having 100% straight people but that's what you're advocating

  15. #270
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    The question is what either being gay or being in a relationship would add to Illyana as a character. I honestly don't think her being gay would add anything. She's an abuse victim who has gone on to abuse others, namely Pixie and Colossus. She's trying to change and treat people better, but she knows how easy it is to slip up and revert to old habits. That alone would make her terrified of getting into any sort of relationship. She could be afraid of being abused again or of being the abuser. Add to that the idea of parenthood, where she might not know if the demonic traits or connection to Limbo can be passed on or if dark forces may come for her child, either for the child's potential or to get at her. There's a lot of story potential there, and if done right I can see it doing for Illyana what becoming a mother and marrying Luke Cage did for Jessica Jones. Making her a lesbian in my opinion doesn't effect the idea of being in a relationship so much, but it does put the kibosh on the child aspect while also not adding anything to the abuse aspect.

    Potential ideas for love interests: Since she represents the demonic having her date an angelic figure has a built-in opposites attract appeal. I did something like that in the Age of Marvels fanfic universe by giving her a boyfriend who was a young Lumen Sage from the Bayonetta series. That sort of relationship can also have the built-in drama of opposition from an entire faction. Not sure what angelic factions there are in Marvel though.

    Another idea is for her to look for someone who can provide a sense of normalcy she's never known. This is what I think appeals to people who ship Illyana with Doug Ramsey, as he is the most normal person she knows. I could have easily seen 80s Illyana in a relationship with Doug, especially with her over-protectiveness towards him, but since Bendis had her give that 'there is no normal' speech I don't see it anymore.

    These are ideas that would either further develop her as a character or naturally create drama and story. To me the Leah/Illyana thing we saw in Secret Wars did neither and did nothing other than depict 2 badass women kicking ass. There's nothing wrong with it, but it served no purpose to the characters or the story other than fanservice. A canon 616 lesbian relationship can be more meaningful than that, but I feel there's just more potential for her character with a heterosexual relationship that leaves open the door for a biological child.

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