Illyana Rasputin: Magik Appreciation 2019

[G0RM]

Because, unless he states what his intent was, you don't know if he intended disrespect... or what he intended. Anything that anyone projects on to him is just that, a projection. Some artists (including writers, directors, producers, etc.) don't privilege message over aesthetics and think art shouldn't be propaganda (even propaganda we agree with) and I think Triniking's point is that maybe he painted a picture he thought looked cool. Nothing more, nothing less.

The very recent (historical) attitude that all art has to have a stance on social concerns, and if it doesn't overtly support perspective A then it is actively undermining it, is really very disturbing.

"If you aren't with us, you're against us," seems to me like the kind of binary logic that lies at the foundation of all forms of Fascism.

[Astroman]

"If you aren't with us, you're against us," seems to me like the kind of binary logic that lies at the foundation of all forms of Fascism.

Exactly. And it sets up a precedent that should even be disturbing to people who agree with any said agenda, in that, when the socio-political pendulums swing to a status quo they DON'T support, we'll have a culture that still thinks that 'art' that doesn't support the 'right' message is "Double-Plus Un-Good."

[sungila]

Because, unless he states what his intent was, you don't know if he intended disrespect... or what he intended. Anything that anyone projects on to him is just that, a projection. Some artists (including writers, directors, producers, etc.) don't privilege message over aesthetics and think art shouldn't be propaganda (even propaganda we agree with) and I think Triniking's point is that maybe he painted a picture he thought looked cool. Nothing more, nothing less.

The very recent (historical) attitude that all art has to have a stance on social concerns, and if it doesn't overtly support perspective A then it is actively undermining it, is really very disturbing.

I have no idea how art has ever not had a conversational expressive intent. Cover art is a statement. That's why people buy variants. And then, what's style, I can't understand how supporting the intent in art could ever be distorted into a support of binary divisions, discursive judgement or fascism? What? Aren't you saying I shouldn't respond to the art? Isn't that my free right? To ask what do you mean of an artist is conversation. To say what it feels like or looks like to me is why an artist makes art, even if that means the one asking is the artist who made it. Please don't distort my intent...if you don't know what I mean. Like you said.

What disturbs me is 'just looks cool' without being cool enough to handle how you're cool isn't cool to me.

[Astroman]

I have no idea how art has ever not had a conversational expressive intent. Cover art is a statement. That's why people buy variants. And then, what's style, I can't understand how supporting the intent in art could ever be distorted into a support of binary divisions, discursive judgement or fascism? What? Aren't you saying I shouldn't respond to the art? Isn't that my free right? To ask what do you mean of an artist is conversation. To say what it feels like or looks like to me is why an artist makes art, even if that means the one asking is the artist who made it. Please don't distort my intent...if you don't know what I mean. Like you said.

What disturbs me is 'just looks cool' without being cool enough to handle how you're cool isn't cool to me.

What you are inferring as intent may not be what the artist actually intended. Your perceptions are valid for you. How you infer and read a piece of art is valid for you. Projecting *intention* onto the artist in a way that makes him look to be part of the problem or undermining the perceived intent of other artists who came before most likely doesn't reflect what his intent actually was and, if so, then misrepresents what that intent actually was.

Your rant from a few pages ago intimated that this sort of art isn't enlightened enough, reinforces societal ills, and undoes the work of others. THAT is where it starts to get a bit like policing what art is acceptable or not... or at least art that should be praised or shamed.

it is of course, your right. Just, when other people disagree with your assessment of the consequences of this kind of art, or want to create art that just fits their aesthetic temperment in ways that don't work for you, it shouldn't be seen as a problem, just another approach to art.

It wasn't that long ago that everyone was telling us that comics, horror movies, heavy metal music, and D&D were corrupting art that was destroying the moral fiber of society and our children and that the creators were knowingly, or ignorantly, doing the work of SATAN.

Your statements of...

"This Illyana cover is more in keeping with the bulk of what I've seen from his Marvel covers. Fairy Tale princesses inflated for boys and girls who never grew outside of the capitalistic ideal that a life and all it's possibilities should be stuffed or starved into the shape of a little girl in the theater watching a horror film about where the victim or tricked out heroine is always a little girl in sleep over t-shirt screaming at some dude in a mask with a knife in his hand."

and... "It's hard for me as a fan to see the work that Bendis, Anka, recently Rosenberg and Gorham as well as a few others have struggled to accomplish so easily and obviously erased, assimilated and flattened out into the same ol' shiny looking newshit. Harder still to see fans who've themselves read beyond and outside simplified boxes...be so easily returned and re-boxed in."

...doesn't seem all that different than all the other previous arguments against art that someone just didn't like but needed to find moral arguments to support that emotional response.

[sungila]

What you are inferring as intent may not be what the artist actually intended. Your perceptions are valid for you. How you infer and read a piece of art is valid for you. Projecting *intention* onto the artist in a way that makes him look to be part of the problem or undermining the perceived intent of other artists who came before most likely doesn't reflect what his intent actually was and, if so, then misrepresents what that intent actually was.

Your rant from a few pages ago intimated that this sort of art isn't enlightened enough, reinforces societal ills, and undoes the work of others. THAT is where it starts to get a bit like policing what art is acceptable or not... or at least art that should be praised or shamed.

it is of course, your right. Just, when other people disagree with your assessment of the consequences of this kind of art, or want to create art that just fits their aesthetic temperment in ways that don't work for you, it shouldn't be seen as a problem, just another approach to art.

It wasn't that long ago that everyone was telling us that comics, horror movies, heavy metal music, and D&D were corrupting art that was destroying the moral fiber of society and our children and that the creators were knowingly, or ignorantly, doing the work of SATAN.

Your statements of...

"This Illyana cover is more in keeping with the bulk of what I've seen from his Marvel covers. Fairy Tale princesses inflated for boys and girls who never grew outside of the capitalistic ideal that a life and all it's possibilities should be stuffed or starved into the shape of a little girl in the theater watching a horror film about where the victim or tricked out heroine is always a little girl in sleep over t-shirt screaming at some dude in a mask with a knife in his hand."

and... "It's hard for me as a fan to see the work that Bendis, Anka, recently Rosenberg and Gorham as well as a few others have struggled to accomplish so easily and obviously erased, assimilated and flattened out into the same ol' shiny looking newshit. Harder still to see fans who've themselves read beyond and outside simplified boxes...be so easily returned and re-boxed in."

...doesn't seem all that different than all the other previous arguments against art that someone just didn't like but needed to find moral arguments to support that emotional response.

You're cut and pasting me to fit what you say I am. Saying I'm implying what you tell me I am even as your whole agruement is that I'm apropriating Artgerm's intent rather than questioning it, which is totally crap. And you know what? This discussion is becoming between us. So, if you agree, thanks for the feedback Astroman but I don't appreciate the personal attacks that got you here up and at me.
That's all this is justfying and that's enough.

I did try to make it something else. But this is just push and shove a person around stuff. Yeah, enough.

I said that cover is ugly. I said it looks like a box store.

It does to me, I didn't say you do, but this kinda stuff in forums is ugly.

I'm sorry to the forum for my part in letting this talk about art...and Magik...not be anything about that.

There are so much more beautiful and better and actually cool things to talk about.

Don't mind me defending myself, whatever that was, um all you and whoever would like to, win okay!?

But I'd rather not be a your "pretentious fascist" if that's alright.

Hey so wow, Magik is a captain now? What do you think about that?

[Jumpyshark]

I am very curious to see in what direction they take Illyana as a captain. There's a lot of story and character potential there.

Imagine her just summoning a load of Limbo demons - would Mutants love the fear factor, or would that be bad PR as they navigate their economic aims?

Will she use her discs to array her forces? Will this lead to dissent among the ranks if she's too direct?

[pandafarmer]

That Artgerm cover is pretty standard fair for him. I was following him on Twitter/Insta for a while after seeing a piece he did of Magik that I loved and I ended up unfollowing because everything he does is basically the same face with different hair/costume. *sigh*

I didn't like the Bachalo costume at first either, but it's really grown on me. So much I have a tattoo of her in the costume even. I agree that it sets her apart from the "training" uniform days and she's become her own. As a leader, she needs to wear something other than that uni... it doesn't have to be the Bachalo one, but she needs to stand out moreso than she does with the sword and bangs.

[Jumpyshark]

That Artgerm cover is pretty standard fair for him. I was following him on Twitter/Insta for a while after seeing a piece he did of Magik that I loved and I ended up unfollowing because everything he does is basically the same face with different hair/costume. *sigh*

I didn't like the Bachalo costume at first either, but it's really grown on me. So much I have a tattoo of her in the costume even. I agree that it sets her apart from the "training" uniform days and she's become her own. As a leader, she needs to wear something other than that uni... it doesn't have to be the Bachalo one, but she needs to stand out moreso than she does with the sword and bangs.

No worries if not, but care to share? That's sounds rad.

[ComeOnBunny]

"If you aren't with us, you're against us," seems to me like the kind of binary logic that lies at the foundation of all forms of Fascism.

This is kind of true when it comes to fandom.If they aren't with the comics I like and it gets cancelled they might as well have been against it even though the reality is they just didn't care either way

[pandafarmer]

No worries if not, but care to share? That's sounds rad.

Sorry for the blurry pic. I'm at work and the lighting isn't great.

It has some really cool details that the artist did that don't come through here.

[H-E-D]

That Artgerm cover is pretty standard fair for him. I was following him on Twitter/Insta for a while after seeing a piece he did of Magik that I loved and I ended up unfollowing because everything he does is basically the same face with different hair/costume. *sigh*

Yeah, Artgerm has been this for years... he blew up when he started doing variants for Supergirl, for some reason, but that didn't mark a shift in his style.

[pandafarmer]

miguel-mercado-magik-upload.jpg

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aE0vJ

I've always loved this artist's interpretation. A great cross between Bach and classic. Absolutely how I could see them do the training costumes in the MCU movies.

[Jumpyshark]

Sorry for the blurry pic. I'm at work and the lighting isn't great.

It has some really cool details that the artist did that don't come through here.

That's cool - very clever using the magic swirl to naturally crop it too! The shading is great too, and I really appreciate the depth they managed with her pose.

miguel-mercado-magik-upload.jpg

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aE0vJ

I've always loved this artist's interpretation. A great cross between Bach and classic. Absolutely how I could see them do the training costumes in the MCU movies.

Big fan of his X-Men work in particular. His Emma redesign is a delight.

[pandafarmer]

Thanks! I'm very happy with it. The artist is very talented and works on my wife's tattoos as well.

Plan is to eventually add to it in a half sleeve. The swirl was so there would be easy transitions no matter what the subject ends up being for the rest of the art.

[sungila]

Thanks! I'm very happy with it. The artist is very talented and works on my wife's tattoos as well.

Plan is to eventually add to it in a half sleeve. The swirl was so there would be easy transitions no matter what the subject ends up being for the rest of the art.

Love your tattoo Pandafarmer!

Your avatar too, that Bachalo cover is a favorite of mine so much cause it's inexorably the image of origin for me for all the Bendis UXM/ANXM Illayna that, in time, has become one the most important runs in my Magik fandom. Yup, this cover, this Yanna embodies, the emergence or maybe more like the emerging woman, stepping into a light more real and frightening and untamed than through her stepping disc or 'darkchylde' smoldering...you know this Yanna here:

7cd5d9cf2e2a21b67b43e64ae2f16802.jpg

In the long run the 'uniform' doesn't matter to me at all. Not the sword. Not the hairstyle.

Many images I see of Illyana give me pause. I find myself listening sometimes more deeply to the portraits than the scripted finished cannon...but all that cannon is there...yet...all of it...so it's not exactly silent...it's not exactly a fully formed language or narratively speaking its way toward meaning or away from it...it's sorta of just...sound. Some silences are formed from being in a place, and being in a place often is 'holy shit all of sudden' but in such a sloooooowwwwwwweeeeeddddd dowwwwwwnnnnnn thenethenfastfastfast so very stop....moment. Years and a fraction of a second a breath. Um...hey, and you take exhale to get a breath.

Hey Yanna...is what I feel when I see Bachalo's UXM Magik.

I worry about what to wear.
Wearing it, whatever it is, is also wearing that worry, but that's different than worrying about wearing it.

It's hard to let go of a well worn pair of jeans.

To me it's about the hero wearing the clothes, the skin, the body, the panel, the page, the person informing the line of the pencil...the person bravely emboldening the ink, the person illumining the color, the person casting and transporting the shadow the light...

I love your tattoo. Thanks for sharing your art.