Should the Legion of Superheroes always be part of the Superman franchise?

[Superlad93]

I think that's the same strange misconception there is with X-Men. These are books about the future, change, and advancement but most want nothing to do with anything beyond the initial idea. I think the concept thrives when it plays their future as something sustainable, alive, and growing. That gets undercut, in my opinion, when they're more or less forever children in Neverland, Clark has gotten too old for them, and new members and ideas aren't too much of a thing.

Saturn Girl's age in Doomsday Clock is what I hope they stick to going forward while introducing new and younger members. I mean, lets be real, the Legion is supposed to be a snap shot of the future, but its classic members tend to paint a very, lets say, homogenized picture. New blood would be quit nice right about now.

[Sacred Knight]

I can see that side of the argument too. But I've said before that I won't deny that there are some things in which I'm actually not a fan of progress or moving forward to large degrees. Its definitely fits a point of view of things being static, and I own that, but I just think the concept of teenage kids forming a group from the inspiration of Superman, I think that concept was when things were at its best. I find the adult versions boring. It moves things forward in one yes, but I can only plead I don't want things to move forward in that regard. :shrug: I would argue however that I believe the stories can still tell tales of advancement without their ages changing that much.

I don't feel its as much a misconception as it is point of view of taste in regards to how characters do or do not age. I don't believe liking ages to relatively stay static also comments on an individual reader not wanting to read stories of advancement, though.

[Superlad93]

Understandable. I won't argue your personal feelings and opinions on stuff you like a specific way because you like it a specific way. But, I'll just say that I don't think that's the healthiest thing for the longevity of the concept for a number of reasons.

I don't feel its as much a misconception as it is point of view of taste in regards to how characters do or do not age. I don't believe liking ages to relatively stay static also comments on an individual reader not wanting to read stories of advancement, though.

I agree with this basic idea, but not when it comes to very specific concepts like X-Men or the Legion. X-Men consonantly regurgitating its same idea of the same few teens going through puberty, coming out into the world as people, or learning to stand proud as what you are (whatever metaphor you like) is dishonest to the idea of the concept. You can totally have Scott going through his sh!t over and over for as long as you want, but you shouldn't, because the big idea that makes all those aforementioned metaphors work is the simple idea that "it gets better." That's time and characters moving to some degree.

The same is maybe more so true for the Legion because its the idea of them stepping into the drivers seat of the world now that your Supermen, Batmen, and Wonder Women are not physically there. That's young people becoming adults and trying not to f%#k things up as bad as the generation before them.

Any other concept like Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman then I'd say rathering a fairly static comic is just taste rather than active friction against the concept. This and X-Men are likely the only times I'd make this argument more or less. But with that said, I'm not disregarding your individual taste or anyone else's. I'm not you as a reader don't want to read stories about advancement. No. I'm just saying that it's actively rubbing against the idea of the book.

Funny enough, part of what makes them closer to Superman is the idea that they started out as good samaritans when they were super young, and then they grew into young adult heroes. Superman inadvertently set a blueprint and these 3 kids followed it off mainly instinct in their own way, and then built something even more spectacular than what Superman ever did.

[Flash Gordon]

I think that's the same strange misconception there is with X-Men. These are books about the future, change, and advancement but most want nothing to do with anything beyond the initial idea. I think the concept thrives when it plays their future as something sustainable, alive, and growing. That gets undercut, in my opinion, when they're more or less forever children in Neverland, Clark has gotten too old for them, and new members and ideas aren't too much of a thing.

Saturn Girl's age in Doomsday Clock is what I hope they stick to going forward while introducing new and younger members. I mean, lets be real, the Legion is supposed to be a snap shot of the future, but its classic members tend to paint a very, lets say, homogenized picture. New blood would be quit nice right about now.

Honestly I'd move very far ahead and drop most of the classic characters. The names would go, too.

Imra, Rokk, and Garth could pop up and I'd keep Brainy. Timberwolf, maybe some others. A holistic fresh take on the concept that doesn't trash what came before, but just moves the needle ahead so that the prior stuff matters but isn't pivotal.

"Long Live the Legion". It's a movement, more than a team. A More Perfect Union than the United Planets.

[Superlad93]

More of a fan of keeping Imra, Rokk, Garth, and Brainy on as the adults/headmasters/alumni, and putting in place an up and coming generation. Like I said before Imra's generation, when taking a group shot, makes for a remarkably homogenized look at the future, but I gotta recognized their importance in the rebuilding of this IP.

I wouldn't want to move far from them because the Legion is a hard enough sell already. But I'd need to inject new blood that new fans can look to as a direct starting point while older fans still have the continued stories of the OG Legion.

[Flash Gordon]

More of a fan of keeping Imra, Rokk, Garth, and Brainy on as the adults/headmasters/alumni, and putting in place an up and coming generation. Like I said before Imra's generation, when taking a group shot, makes for a remarkably homogenized look at the future, but I gotta recognized their importance in the rebuilding of this IP.

I wouldn't want to move far from them because the Legion is a hard enough sell already. But I'd need to inject new blood that new fans can look to as a direct starting point while older fans still have the continued stories of the OG Legion.

The Legion shouldn't have any sort of headmasters/alumni. They should be diverse in age, species, race, etc. They're a union, a call to arms. They reach out to you, you pay your dues, you get a ring. You can have an inner societal structure without hierarchy. Brainy is at the levers somewhere tinkering away, there's others too.

Imra, Rokk, and Garth began the revolution. They should be in the stories but no more important than the newcomers.

[Superlad93]

The Legion shouldn't have any sort of headmasters/alumni.

I'm aware of that. You shouldn't take it so literally. They're intergalactic neighborhood watch or the Peace Corps built up from like-minded volunteers. What I described were simply people that were doing it longer than whoever is new.

They should be from all walks of life, and all shapes, ages, colors, and sizes. I'd just about love it if a new member of the Legion was a 40 something year old soccer mom from with laser eyes who saw their efforts over holocast one night at dinner. That totally works for me, but this hypothetical woman would still likely look to Imra, Rokk, and Garth for advice because they've obviously been doing it the longest. That's my only point as far as any perception of "hierarchy" goes.

And never did I say they should be more important. I don't know where you got that impression from.

[Kuwagaton]

I can see the comparison to the X-Men certainly, in dozens of ways, but in handling them I see apples and oranges. If you're comparing the Levitz stuff to Claremont, you have to keep in mind that the huge problem of staying within Claremont is not the same problem the Legion faces from Levitz. Stagnation amd redundancy for the X-Men doesn't apply to the Legion, who are separate from the rest of the DC line and the contemporary feet of clay that define Marvel.

To the explicit idea of whether they should "grow up" or not, I dunno. Again they're not going from like 2004 to 2018, so we don't have to have it. We're not really going to wonder why they're still kids just because of our concept of time. We have plenty of very young heroes though so it's not like it was 50 years ago.

And to the main point, same thing: it's not the 60s or 70s anymore. Superman himself is struggling to get stable and throwing a ton of characters into his circle can stand to wait. He hasn't had to prop up the Legion by association in maybe over 40 years depending on how you argue certain stories. I think now it's more important in idea than practice by far.

[Jim Kelly]

I think the rationale for using the Superman family right now is to get new readers to try the Legion. The LSH has been out of commission for so long that they need an established franchise to give them a boost. I don't think DC could pull off a BATMAN & THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES title, so the Superman family seem the best option.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm aware of that. You shouldn't take it so literally. They're intergalactic neighborhood watch or the Peace Corps built up from like-minded volunteers. What I described were simply people that were doing it longer than whoever is new.

They should be from all walks of life, and all shapes, ages, colors, and sizes. I'd just about love it if a new member of the Legion was a 40 something year old soccer mom from with laser eyes who saw their efforts over holocast one night at dinner. That totally works for me, but this hypothetical woman would still likely look to Imra, Rokk, and Garth for advice because they've obviously been doing it the longest. That's my only point as far as any perception of "hierarchy" goes.

And never did I say they should be more important. I don't know where you got that impression from.

Hey man, where's the fun in all this if we don't take it literally?

I guess what I'm envisioning is more aggressive than that. They're a union with representives and a mission, more than a superhero team. Strength in numbers, and all that jazz.

When you're in the Legion, it's likely a lifestyle.

I get what you're saying, I just think I'm seeing it differently. Some members are bound to stick out, due to their exploits or reputations. Timberwolf is always going to make more of a splash than Jerry from Alpha Xeuim 5. That's how I see Rokk, Imra, and Garth- so yeah I can agree that they may have experience to share.

[Timothy Hunter]

In my opinion, what DC should do, is to instead of having a Super-character on the Legion, they should have it be a Flash-centric title. Call it "Flash and the Legion of Superheroes." Have a time displaces Wally West or Barry Allen as the leader or co-leader of the Legion. During Rebirth, interestingly enough, The Flash was selling better than even Superman.* The Superman franchise has four books that I can think of on the top of my head* **: The Superman monthly, Action Comics, Supergirl, and Supersons. However The Flash only has one: The Flash.

*This is not the case now, due to Bendis's involvement on the current Superman titles, but does feature Superman.

**excluding Justice League, which is not a Super-centric book.

As for regarding the continuity of the Legion revival. I would have it basically take place directly after the events of the 5 Years later run*. The first fifteen issues would feature probably 4 of the most well known Legionnaires (Brainiac 5, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy + either The Flash or Superboy) this would be for readers not to be overwhelmed by the astronomical quantity of characters that the Legion of Superheroes typically has. However more additions to the team (new and familiar faces) would eventually be added.


*the comic would not adhere to the same tone mind you, merely to the same universe.

[Sacred Knight]

Honestly, that would bug me more than a little bit. I don't see the point in letting another franchise swipe something away that basically the Superman franchise created. Maybe that's childish, but it'd T me off. I'd love for The Flash to expand. Would just rather it happen within the framework of its mythos and things its created, rather than sniping on Superman history.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I just don't see any reason why Superman shouldn't have had mythic adventures in the future unlike any hero before him and as a teen. Should the Teen Titans have a Robin connection?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I wonder if this question isn't directly connected to another question, "Should Superman have ever been Super-boy?"

[Sacred Knight]

He needs to have adventures with the Legion as a teen and use his growing powers and fight bad guys in that realm. But he doesn't necessarily need to be called Superboy. He doesn't necessarily need to wear a costume. If he does do both those things it needs to be something only done in the future, not something known to the present day public at all. When he acts in his own time it has to be incognito, he can't be doing these things regularly in plain view in Smallville proper. "Superboy" shouldn't be a known thing there. And it can't be as campy as it was in the 50s.

Long story short, with some quid pro quos for the sake of modernization and a now-normal larger emphasis on suspension of disbelief, the answer is yes.