Top Ten Times Marvel Destroyed It's Own History: Spider-Man Rankings

[Gridde]

That's been my long-standing headcanon for Renew Your Vows. And still is.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that already basically the canon?

Renew Your Vows is Peter's 616 life if OMD didn't happen, right?

[Huntsman Spider]

Just to touch on this - even if Peter and MJ remember OMD and the timeline that is now gone they still are under the current timeline rather than the old one. That doesn't have to change. So they aren't actually married now, even though they were. No papers, no rings, no wedding. Didn't happen. So Peter would not be an adulterer. They might think twice about reprising the marriage for a new reason though - they know the devil will fight it. To me thats a more interesting reason for them not to be together than "oh, I don't know, your past and my past and commitment and stuff, blah blah blah"

"The Devil will fight it" is actually the best reason for them to get married (again). I mean, in a country where Christianity is still the predominant faith (albeit less so in recent years), I can't think of any way that Spider-Man/Peter and Mary Jane would be more badass and heroic than telling the Devil, or the closest in-universe equivalent thereof, to f*** off because their love is stronger than anything he can come up with to keep them apart. It would be the ultimate story of good triumphing over evil, and I am willing to bet that at least it would be great for parents to show their kids so that those kids can also see what is likely their favorite hero beating the embodiment of evil through love, not just with his fists (even if Spidey stomping a mudhole in Mephisto would be awesome to see).

[Inversed]

Honestly, I would realllllly dislike them pulling a Superman Reborn/having the "real" Peter and MJ show up from another dimension and replace these ones.

Because just like the Clone Saga, it makes us feel like everything that we've been reading, which was ALOT of story and alot of which I found genuinely great, was all for not. But it's also just completely lazy. It would be the same route as OMD, simply writing everything you don't like out of canon.

If they're gonna resolve it, the only way it really could be done is them getting their memories back. Where else it goes from there is up to the writers to decide.

I have seen some theories regarding Centipedeman in Spencer's run that he's the physical manifestation of the deal with Mephisto, similar to what happened when Peter and Spider-Man split bodies, which I could see working.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that already basically the canon?

Renew Your Vows is Peter's 616 life if OMD didn't happen, right?

Technically yes, though the changes to the universe's timeline start earlier than when OMD happened, so like Civil War never happened which obviously means the OMD (as least we know it) could never have occurred.

[Miles To Go]

Technically yes, though the changes to the universe's timeline start earlier than when OMD happened, so like Civil War never happened which obviously means the OMD (as least we know it) could never have occurred.

There was also those hints Slott left in "Power Play" back in 2016 that Peter and MJ remembered their lives from Renew Your Vows. It's not known whether or not that was a dropped plot point from his run or an easter egg. Seems moot now given 616 Peter met RYV Peter and MJ in Spidergeddon and this didn't come up, instead they just joked around about being parents to Inheritor babies

[Inversed]

There was also those hints Slott left in "Power Play" back in 2016 that Peter and MJ remembered their lives from Renew Your Vows. It's not known whether or not that was a dropped plot point from his run or an easter egg. Seems moot now given 616 Peter met RYV Peter and MJ in Spidergeddon and this didn't come up, instead they just joked around about being parents to Inheritor babies

It also shouldn't make sense, considering 616 Peter was still alive during the events of Secret Wars, and it is established all the inhabitants of Battleworld were just the different iterations from different universes. Regent sensing deju vu makes sense, but not so much Peter and MJ.

Considering the issue came out before Renew Your Vows became an ongoing, maybe he was trying to tease they could've become fused into one, since Marvel back then was trying to do this thing where elements from ALL the universes got fused together into the "Prime" universe, but once the RYV series started that point became moot.

[Miles To Go]

It also shouldn't make sense, considering 616 Peter was still alive during the events of Secret Wars, and it is established all the inhabitants of Battleworld were just the different iterations from different universes. Regent sensing deju vu makes sense, but not so much Peter and MJ.

Considering the issue came out before Renew Your Vows became an ongoing, maybe he was trying to tease they could've become fused into one, since Marvel back then was trying to do this thing where elements from ALL the universes got fused together into the "Prime" universe, but once the RYV series started that point became moot.

Which begs the question what would have become of Annie. If versions had been "merged" that would essentially have meant a 616 take on Annie may have came back in existence...though it's perhaps likely that the Annie glimpsed in OMD would have remained erased.

[WebLurker]

It also shouldn't make sense, considering 616 Peter was still alive during the events of Secret Wars, and it is established all the inhabitants of Battleworld were just the different iterations from different universes. Regent sensing deju vu makes sense, but not so much Peter and MJ.

I never thought that made much sense simply because the idea was that Battleworld was made by dumping a bunch of pre-existing parallel universes together into one planet, meaning that the 616 and RYV Spidey characters were "always" different characters, in a sense. Ergo, wouldn't RYV Regent and 616 Regent be different people, thus how could the latter remember stuff that the former experienced?

Considering the issue came out before Renew Your Vows became an ongoing, maybe he was trying to tease they could've become fused into one, since Marvel back then was trying to do this thing where elements from ALL the universes got fused together into the "Prime" universe, but once the RYV series started that point became moot.

Maybe. I suppose it could've also been a in-universe nod to it being a pseudo-sequel to another comic without any other deeper meaning. For example, the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness had Kelvin Timeline Spock contacting Spock Prime with questions about a person named "Khan," which was meant as a way to point out in the movie that the story was built off off another preexisting tale rather then being created from whole cloth.

[Scott Taylor]

"The Devil will fight it" is actually the best reason for them to get married (again). I mean, in a country where Christianity is still the predominant faith (albeit less so in recent years), I can't think of any way that Spider-Man/Peter and Mary Jane would be more badass and heroic than telling the Devil, or the closest in-universe equivalent thereof, to f*** off because their love is stronger than anything he can come up with to keep them apart. It would be the ultimate story of good triumphing over evil, and I am willing to bet that at least it would be great for parents to show their kids so that those kids can also see what is likely their favorite hero beating the embodiment of evil through love, not just with his fists (even if Spidey stomping a mudhole in Mephisto would be awesome to see).

I guess. That seems kind of cliche and a bit sappy. Too on the nose, you know? I'd rather see Peter and MJ have a more nuanced view of things, seeing that Mephisto had already shown he has the power to rewrite their entire lives and basically avoiding him like the plague.

But I didn't think a character like Mephisto belonged as a Spider-Man foe in the first place, so am motivated by wanting to totally decommission him from that role ASAP and never look back.

[Inversed]

I never thought that made much sense simply because the idea was that Battleworld was made by dumping a bunch of pre-existing parallel universes together into one planet, meaning that the 616 and RYV Spidey characters were "always" different characters, in a sense. Ergo, wouldn't RYV Regent and 616 Regent be different people, thus how could the latter remember stuff that the former experienced?

You could get away with 616 Regent being the same, or at least similar, Regent as RYV since it seems to be implied that 616 Regent never existed until after Secret Wars so either he was displaced into the Prime universe ala Miles, or he had some kind of duplicate created that was his own being, but still subconsciously remembered some of RYV Regent's experiences.

Also it is interesting that despite Regent's tech and businesses are still mentioned and brought up in the RYV series, he himself has never been mentioned or heard from since the mini.

Maybe. I suppose it could've also been a in-universe nod to it being a pseudo-sequel to another comic without any other deeper meaning. For example, the writers of Star Trek Into Darkness had Kelvin Timeline Spock contacting Spock Prime with questions about a person named "Khan," which was meant as a way to point out in the movie that the story was built off off another preexisting tale rather then being created from whole cloth.

Which is why it probably would've made more sense to have Regent be the only one who has the deja vu moment when fighting Peter & MJ, since it would allow for a more blatant reference/continuation from the RYV mini, while also not distracting from Peter & MJ obviously not having those memories.

[Huntsman Spider]

I guess. That seems kind of cliche and a bit sappy. Too on the nose, you know? I'd rather see Peter and MJ have a more nuanced view of things, seeing that Mephisto had already shown he has the power to rewrite their entire lives and basically avoiding him like the plague.

But I didn't think a character like Mephisto belonged as a Spider-Man foe in the first place, so am motivated by wanting to totally decommission him from that role ASAP and never look back.

As Johnny Blaze said in the first Ghost Rider movie, "You can't live in fear." If Peter and MJ avoid marrying each other because they don't want to get on Mephisto's radar again, what the hell (pun intended) kind of message does that send?

[comicscollector]

That list looks like made by somebody that have just started reading comics.
One More Day as the story that "destroyed" the most it´s own history is funny,because that is cherry picking up moments in a ever changing narrative of ongoing stories of Spider-Man,and ignores for some reason the One Moment in Time story arc that explains how the OMD story is not in continuity anymore.But i guess following the narrative and whats canon or not in the comics would not have as many clicks in those lists as just having the cliche of over criticism over the One More Day story.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

That list looks like made by somebody that have just started reading comics.

If someone has just started reading comics, the Spider-Man they would be reading is Ultimate Spider-Man or maybe Miles Morales, or even Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane or the Spider-Verse stuff since there's a movie that came out and everyone I've spoken to coming out of the theatre has asked for comics about Sp//dr or Penelope Parker, or Spider-Noir or Spider-Ham.

Nobody starting out reading comics would give a damn about the Clone Saga or One More Day. Nor should they. Nor should people who read regular comics.

...ignores for some reason the One Moment in Time story arc...

That story is trash, as is its art, and was roundly considered by critics to be as bad if not worse than OMD.

[comicscollector]

If someone has just started reading comics, the Spider-Man they would be reading is Ultimate Spider-Man or maybe Miles Morales, or even Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane or the Spider-Verse stuff since there's a movie that came out and everyone I've spoken to coming out of the theatre has asked for comics about Sp//dr or Penelope Parker, or Spider-Noir or Spider-Ham.

Nobody starting out reading comics would give a damn about the Clone Saga or One More Day. Nor should they. Nor should people who read regular comics.

That list to me looks quite basic as in lack of better words a collection of cliches from comic book articles.
If it had at least i don´t know stories as Age of Apocalypse,Heroes Reborn,events that had what the title of the article mentions but no.It have right away OMD story in the first place.And in that note ...

That story is trash, as is its art, and was roundly considered by critics to be as bad if not worse than OMD.

And none of what you are saying negates that the changes done to the continuity made in OMD were explained in the One Moment in Time thus making moot the point of the article of OMD being the story that "destroyed" the most Marvel history.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

That list to me looks quite basic as in lack of better words a collection of cliches from comic book articles.

If you are going to say Destroyed the Continuity, then you are going to be specific and use particular examples. Not much room for subjective impressions there. The Clone Saga and OMD did destroy the continuity, and since they are terrible stories and featured in Marvel's mascot character it will be there.

And none of what you are saying negates that the changes done to the continuity made in OMD were explained in the One Moment in Time thus making moot the point of the article of OMD being the story that "destroyed" the most Marvel history.

OMIT did no such thing. The changes it made literally makes no sense in attempting to sell their Crisis Reboot and that lie that "Every story happened without the marriage but they were in a committed relationship".

[comicscollector]

If you are going to say Destroyed the Continuity, then you are going to be specific and use particular examples. Not much room for subjective impressions there. The Clone Saga and OMD did destroy the continuity, and since they are terrible stories and featured in Marvel's mascot character it will be there.

I disagree.In this sort of list the OMD story would not be in the first place imho.
Especially considerating that both the Clone Saga and OMD had changes that were explained in the last stories of the Clone Saga and the One Moment in Time story.

OMIT did no such thing. The changes it made literally makes no sense in attempting to sell their Crisis Reboot and that lie that "Every story happened without the marriage but they were in a committed relationship".

OMIT did explained the changes done in OMD (Why Peter and Mary Jane did not get married and went to have instead a commited relationship,how Peter Parker secret identity got to be a secret again and so on)
So saying that OMD is the story that "destroyed" the most the Marvel history is a hyperbole and is factually incorrect because it ignores the one moment in time story arc.