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  1. #436
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think the timing is perfect for another 6 issue Mera mini. Cecil Castellucci would be so rad, and she's written Arthur and Mera really well already once before.
    I'd be all-in on another Mera mini!

    And to answer your previous post, absolutely, I'd love some of the Silver Age Aquaman elements return to the fold. I do feel they'd retool Qwsp into his Mxy/Batmite alternative, though.

  2. #437
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'd be all-in on another Mera mini!

    And to answer your previous post, absolutely, I'd love some of the Silver Age Aquaman elements return to the fold. I do feel they'd retool Qwsp into his Mxy/Batmite alternative, though.
    See, I'd rather play with the concept of a whole race of water sprites living below a part of the nation state of Atlantis. Qwsp being one who prefers having adventures with Arthur, Mera, Garth, Tula, etc.

    Prolly too much whimsy for a modern play though. Then again the film featured an ancestor of Topo, and mentioned Fire Trolls/showed where they live...so who knows!
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  3. #438
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Johns and Parker had a lot more going for their run than just his relationship with and Mera as a whole. They had him re-establish himself in the post New 52 era, built his setting (Amnesty Bay/Atlantis) and supporting cast (yes, Mera is a part of that) to be accessible to new readers, and developed a lot of memorable plotlines throughout (Arthur meeting his mother, for example). She's a big part of what made Aquaman special, but simply adding Mera as the co-lead isn't a recipe to success just like having Lois around in Superman doesn't mean it's a guaranteed hit-- they had a lot going on to give both characters something to do.

    With respect to her role in Arthur's off-panel death and revival, she could very welly have tried to save him and in doing so sealed his fate. We don't know, so I'm not judging until we see what transpires. For all we know, it's a fake-out or misunderstanding.

    I prefer Arthur and Mera together, but for each to be viable characters, they must also work well solo in their own adventures. Much like Lois and Clark, I prefer them together, but they're both wonderful characters in their own right and I think Arthur and Mera are as strong as them.

    Him being in Amnesty Bay doesn't preclude Mera from coming ashore, nor does it mean they won't be a presence in each other's lives. I do see your point on Year of the Villain, but it's a fetish of Didio's to do these every few years so I'm not going to hold it against Aquaman as a title in particular. This is a line-wide groaner and we're going to have to get through it equally.

    I really do understand your frustration. Post One More Day I stopped reading Spider-Man until Nick Spencer came back onboard, and even then it's just because my girlfriend already bought the issues. Mary Jane is a big part of Spider-Man's appeal for me as a reader, but there's a ton of stories in the past where she's present and I could not care less about reading them. If a writer wants to put the relationship in peril in order to draw attention to how significant it is and then put them back together to show the strength of their bond, that's a story and can be a damned good one if executed well.

    So far the execution has been pretty good (and the art is stellar across Rocha and Bogdanovich) and I'm hopeful it's going to be a good read. Really hope Arthur can keep his shirt on in the future, though!
    Agreed on the shirt You making some very interesting points and find me in agreement on most of them.
    However I am not saying that its has to be just their relationship. Far from it.

    I want adventures of them both, as you wrote, like when they went in Atlanna's search. That was Awesome, I want those kind of plots, not romance, them together as the perfect team they are. He's the calm one she's the headstrong one etc

    Unfortunately Mera has been marginalized too much lately. Not even in the Justice league in which she had to take Arthur's place, she appears in just two pages in all these months. Today another no show.

    As for her part in his death, whatever justification it will not be credible If she's the one who did, more likely he died to save her and therefore unwittingly she contributed to his end. Acceptable. However something strange is, if he's dead how did she hear his call in atlantis? But as you say, lets wait.

    As for a writer wants to put the relationship in peril in order to draw attention to how significant it is and then put them back together Since 2017 they have separated them THREE TIMES. how many other times do you need to show the strength of their bond in such a short period of time? AT the end its tires and bores you.
    Even his being dead or alive I lost count how many times they did it. I believe Aquaman holds the record of the most killed superhero.

    As for Lois and Clark comparison, I dont agree, this one is different, she is not the damsel in distress, she's probably stronger than him or equal to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think the timing is perfect for another 6 issue Mera mini. Cecil Castellucci would be so rad, and she's written Arthur and Mera really well already once before.
    wont work, the first one flopped in sales. Besides if it wont include him even partially or with him making an appearance it will lose steam as the first, which started at 35k plus sales and ended hardly making 10k.
    Nowadays Hardly Aquaman manages to keep afloat with sales. Only Geoff Johns could probably make a miniseries work. He has the capacity and following to do it.

  4. #439
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    See, I'd rather play with the concept of a whole race of water sprites living below a part of the nation state of Atlantis. Qwsp being one who prefers having adventures with Arthur, Mera, Garth, Tula, etc.

    Prolly too much whimsy for a modern play though. Then again the film featured an ancestor of Topo, and mentioned Fire Trolls/showed where they live...so who knows!
    I'd prefer that too, but DC is into consolidating it's higher concepts of late, so for good or ill, that's how I see it going.

  5. #440
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    Agreed on the shirt You making some very interesting points and find me in agreement on most of them.
    However I am not saying that its has to be just their relationship. Far from it.

    I want adventures of them both, as you wrote, like when they went in Atlanna's search. That was Awesome, I want those kind of plots, not romance, them together as the perfect team they are. He's the calm one she's the headstrong one etc

    Unfortunately Mera has been marginalized too much lately. Not even in the Justice league in which she had to take Arthur's place, she appears in just two pages in all these months. Today another no show.

    As for her part in his death, whatever justification it will not be credible If she's the one who did, more likely he died to save her and therefore unwittingly she contributed to his end. Acceptable. However something strange is, if he's dead how did she hear his call in atlantis? But as you say, lets wait.

    As for a writer wants to put the relationship in peril in order to draw attention to how significant it is and then put them back together Since 2017 they have separated them THREE TIMES. how many other times do you need to show the strength of their bond in such a short period of time? AT the end its tires and bores you.
    Even his being dead or alive I lost count how many times they did it. I believe Aquaman holds the record of the most killed superhero.

    As for Lois and Clark comparison, I dont agree, this one is different, she is not the damsel in distress, she's probably stronger than him or equal to him.



    wont work, the first one flopped in sales. Besides if it wont include him even partially or with him making an appearance it will lose steam as the first, which started at 35k plus sales and ended hardly making 10k.
    Nowadays Hardly Aquaman manages to keep afloat with sales. Only Geoff Johns could probably make a miniseries work. He has the capacity and following to do it.
    Lois has a strength of character that I'm comparing to Mera. Of course they're not physical equivalents. Furthermore, Lois is only written as a damsel in distress by writers that don't want to deal with her, much as you're attributing KSD to Mera. But it's true, their dynamic is different, but what I don't think differs that much is that those two compliment each other in a way that enriches their stories together, but their time apart doesn't diminish what makes them special.

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    Agreed on the shirt You making some very interesting points and find me in agreement on most of them.
    However I am not saying that its has to be just their relationship. Far from it.

    I want adventures of them both, as you wrote, like when they went in Atlanna's search. That was Awesome, I want those kind of plots, not romance, them together as the perfect team they are. He's the calm one she's the headstrong one etc

    Unfortunately Mera has been marginalized too much lately. Not even in the Justice league in which she had to take Arthur's place, she appears in just two pages in all these months. Today another no show.

    As for her part in his death, whatever justification it will not be credible If she's the one who did, more likely he died to save her and therefore unwittingly she contributed to his end. Acceptable. However something strange is, if he's dead how did she hear his call in atlantis? But as you say, lets wait.

    As for a writer wants to put the relationship in peril in order to draw attention to how significant it is and then put them back together Since 2017 they have separated them THREE TIMES. how many other times do you need to show the strength of their bond in such a short period of time? AT the end its tires and bores you.
    Even his being dead or alive I lost count how many times they did it. I believe Aquaman holds the record of the most killed superhero.

    As for Lois and Clark comparison, I dont agree, this one is different, she is not the damsel in distress, she's probably stronger than him or equal to him.
    The issue in comics when writers want members of a couple to be more "independent" is this: The character, whose name is not in the title, would likely be relegated.

    In this situation, no matter how powerful is Mera, the writers will likely want to focus on Aquaman.


    PS: I don't think Lois is just a damsel in distress.
    Last edited by Konja7; 05-15-2019 at 05:17 PM.

  7. #442
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Lois has a strength of character that I'm comparing to Mera. Of course they're not physical equivalents. Furthermore, Lois is only written as a damsel in distress by writers that don't want to deal with her, much as you're attributing KSD to Mera. But it's true, their dynamic is different, but what I don't think differs that much is that those two compliment each other in a way that enriches their stories together, but their time apart doesn't diminish what makes them special.
    never said it diminish lois and clark, one of my favorites BTW. Lois makes up for not having superpowers by her strong character. The difference with Mera or the pre Abnett Mera, she was such a badass, that she usually was the one that wouldn't hesitate to strike first or kill, like when she reprimanded Arthur for not killing BM.

    About KSD today I read what a big fan of hers wrote and its very significant "she's very good in Creator owned titles. She has never been great at writing superheroes" As for KSD marginalizing Mera, I wasn't referring just to her, In Justice league in all these months, mera appears in two pages and a cover, when she was to take Arthur's place. Isn't that sidelining her?

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisG View Post
    About KSD today I read what a big fan of hers wrote and its very significant "she's very good in Creator owned titles. She has never been great at writing superheroes" As for KSD marginalizing Mera, I wasn't referring just to her, In Justice league in all these months, mera appears in two pages and a cover, when she was to take Arthur's place. Isn't that sidelining her?
    About JL, it is more complicated because it is a team book with many characters. So, some characters will be sidelined often.

    We can only hope Mera being sidelined wouldn't be constant every issue.

  9. #444
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    The issue in comics when writers want members of a couple to be more "independent" is this: The character, whose name is not in the title, would likely be relegated.

    In this situation, no matter how powerful is Mera, the writers will likely want to focus on Aquaman.


    PS: I don't think Lois is just a damsel in distress.
    I see that, but that's the catch with Aquaman, unlike other titles, They can't just focus only on aquaman alone, it works beautifully when they are a team. Sales confirm this. For example Abnett's run started to go downwards when he started playing with keeping them somehow apart. From two issues per month it ended with one. It Can't be a co-incidence? since neither Parker or Johns did go there and although not the only reason Aqua/mera duo, was one of the basis of their successful run's.

    PS- My point about Lois, If a very determined enemy wants to harm superman, his weak point (besides kryptonite) is threatening lois and she doesnt have the means to defend herself lacking superpowers. Lois makes up for this with a very strong character.
    With aquaman it would better if an enemy faces him directly, since she could be more ruthless (having superpowers) and very bad temper

  10. #445
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    About JL, it is more complicated because it is a team book with many characters. So, some characters will be sidelined often.

    We can only hope Mera being sidelined wouldn't be constant every issue.
    Ok, but they had six months with just only two pages for her? they could have made more use of her don't you think? It was an opportunity to see a different character in action.
    Alright that She was just a substitute for Arthur's place, now that he's coming back he will take back his place.

  11. #446
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    This latest issue was clearly more of a transitional one, and also sheds some new light on the opening arc of DeConnick's run. The previous theme of the hero as protector is still there, but now it acted as some sort of spirit quest to test Aquaman's worthiness as a hero when everything had been stripped from him, and the last issue is another spirit quest.

    Now the promise is to tell what happened between "The Drowned Earth" and "Unspoken Water", and I guess we will get back to familiar ground (in this case Amnesty Bay) with issue 50. Since that was where he started, it acts as a symbolic rebirth. And while Mera is the most important person in Aquaman's mythos, Amnesty Bay is the most important place as the connecting point between land and ocean.

    I think DeConnick faced much the same challenge as Wilson did in Wonder Woman. The previous run(s) had placed the hero in a narrative dead end, and the characters needed some form of recentering in their world. Both did so based on the narrative situation they were in. Wilson did it by making the world explode around Wonder Woman (using the state Rucka left Themyscira and Ares in); DeConnick did it by drilling down Aquaman to the bare essentials after his suicide mission at the end of "The Drowned Earth". Then they are using this to explore the respective heroes and their world, though Wilson does it outside-in while DeConnick does it inside-out.

    So looked at the perspective of that DeConnick is trying to accomplish, she is doing a good job and making progress towards Aquaman's return and symbolic rebirth. She has affirmed Aquaman's role as protector of the ocean and added to the DC mythology of the oceans in a constructive manner, and without getting bogged down in complexity.

    It might not be the story that everyone wanted, but then it can never be the case that everyone can get the story they want. But it is a story well told (if a bit slow due to having been told over so long a period of time) that deeply explores some of Aquaman's aspects.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #447
    Fantastic Member ChrisG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    This latest issue was clearly more of a transitional one, and also sheds some new light on the opening arc of DeConnick's run. The previous theme of the hero as protector is still there, but now it acted as some sort of spirit quest to test Aquaman's worthiness as a hero when everything had been stripped from him, and the last issue is another spirit quest.

    Now the promise is to tell what happened between "The Drowned Earth" and "Unspoken Water", and I guess we will get back to familiar ground (in this case Amnesty Bay) with issue 50. Since that was where he started, it acts as a symbolic rebirth. And while Mera is the most important person in Aquaman's mythos, Amnesty Bay is the most important place as the connecting point between land and ocean.

    I think DeConnick faced much the same challenge as Wilson did in Wonder Woman. The previous run(s) had placed the hero in a narrative dead end, and the characters needed some form of recentering in their world. Both did so based on the narrative situation they were in. Wilson did it by making the world explode around Wonder Woman (using the state Rucka left Themyscira and Ares in); DeConnick did it by drilling down Aquaman to the bare essentials after his suicide mission at the end of "The Drowned Earth". Then they are using this to explore the respective heroes and their world, though Wilson does it outside-in while DeConnick does it inside-out.

    So looked at the perspective of that DeConnick is trying to accomplish, she is doing a good job and making progress towards Aquaman's return and symbolic rebirth. She has affirmed Aquaman's role as protector of the ocean and added to the DC mythology of the oceans in a constructive manner, and without getting bogged down in complexity.

    It might not be the story that everyone wanted, but then it can never be the case that everyone can get the story they want. But it is a story well told (if a bit slow due to having been told over so long a period of time) that deeply explores some of Aquaman's aspects.
    To me all this could be fine, but it dragged on too much next month will be the eight one, besides to do that she sidelined other important aspects and characters, has many contradictions and unneeded subplots(suitors).
    This him being dead or alive is nothing new, He must have the record of being the hero who died most.

    Now they came up with this ridiculous cliffhanger and no sort of reason can justify it, what? she loved so much that she killed him. I hope its just a ruse to attract interest.

    I disagree with you that his role as champion of the oceans has been reaffirmed, he's dead in the afterlife not in an ocean, nobody among the living knows what he has accomplished.

    I agree that the narrative was at a dead end, Abnett left a mess he created, but she has made no attempt to fix it. Namely Mera a xebellian being queen of atlantis is ridiculous, the reason that while Arthur was unacceptable as king, too progressive, they make a more progressive choice by choosing a xebellian among everything else? Yesterday Ksd made another mistake, she wrote that Arthur relinquished the burdens of the throne peacefully.. yeah and dumped it on the shoulders of the person he loves most. A hero doesn't act in that way!!!!!

  13. #448
    Spectacular Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    Can someone please explain to me why Arthur no longer has the fins on the back of his legs? As "Andy" he doesn't have them.

    I've always believed that his fins were a part of his legs and NOT just a part of his costume. I've even read as much in a bio of his but for the life of me I cannot find it when I google it.

    The only pics I can find of Arthur with bare legs comes from the Time and Tide Mini-series and he is shown in many pictures bare-legged and the fins are definitely a part of his legs:

    aquat&t-03-19.jpg
    aquat&t-03-05.jpg
    aquat&t-03-03.jpg

    I can understand them not putting fins on him in the movie (Momoa looks nothing like the way Aquaman should look, but as an alternate reality I'm fine with that), but he is currently being drawn in the comics without his fins (as Andy).
    Last edited by RickWJ324; 05-16-2019 at 06:13 AM.

  14. #449
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I read the current issue and thought it was decent. Mother Shark seems like an interesting character. Her watching over the collective memory of the ocean kinda reminded me of Djalia from the Black Panther series since it is the plane of Wakandan memory/history. Mother Shark herself reminded me of "Mother" from Djalia:

    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  15. #450
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    It looks a bit off and it would not really let him pass on land as a child. I prefer the fins being a costume element, perhaps giving him better control when he swims.

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