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  1. #571
    Astonishing Member MadFacedKid's Avatar
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    Reading Snyder's Justice League #30 got me thinking is Aquaman technically connected to 3 of the 7 secret forces?

    Think about it there's the Life Force that was introduced in Drowned Earth where Aquaman was directly connected too "Felt mostly by those connected to the Ocean"

    There's the "The collective unconscious" which is the force of those with "wisdom and knowledge" also felt by telepathy. Aquaman is a ex-king who is also a telepath.

    Then lets factor in this one which could be a bit more on the fence, but I think still works.

    "The Sphere of the Gods" which is the force of all magic in the universe "wielded by the Gods and those with Godlike power" Aquaman has been stated post-crisis by Poseidon a character/God he mirrors to have magical veins. He also displayed magic in Crown of Thorns the last arc with Abnett and is hanging out with some Gods who gave him magical tatts as well.


    Honestly makes Aquaman 3 for 7 right now. With us not knowing what the final force is and it might connect with Arthur too. Hell the JL shoild give him a Lantern ring arm.him up.and havw him combat Lex whose 6 for 7 right now 😂


    Honestly though anyone think this force stuff will have any role in the future for.Aquaman? Anyome hope.it will?

  2. #572
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    Honestly though anyone think this force stuff will have any role in the future for.Aquaman? Anyome hope.it will?
    Not really, it seems more like a way to artificially elevate Arthur a little since he's in the back half of the Justice League.

    My big hope is that the Lovecraftian monsters become more a part of his world. KSD seems to be implementing them and then there's Brave and the Bold #32 by JMS. It works and makes his story a lot more mythic without encroaching on Diana's turf too much. Much like the Still/Sage/Strength/Silk/Quilt/Polyester/etc forces over in the Flash, those weren't really followed up on either.

    You may see it come up in Snyder's work at most, but frankly he's more interested in Mera than Arthur as of right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    We're gonna have the agree to disagree, I really want to unpack this divide but I just wrote a life-size brick of text breaking down what I found un-agreeable with that guy's video and I didn't even get to my points about intertextual relationships between adaptations being a good thing, at which point i realized it's just too much to unpack and define and articulate. however I will say this, I believe this problem will always exist, intertextuality vs adaptation exclusivity, simply due to the nature of american superhero fiction being endlessly serialized with no set author and thus no real direction; only ever the illusion of direction.
    Pretty much this. The only way you'll get some degree of consistency is in cases like Starman, where Robinson was able to tell Jack's story, retire him and then effectively take the character with him. The fact that we have been granted the luxury of reading new stories with some characters approaching their centennial anniversary is the other side of the coin. You can't love these characters and reading their stories without being able to accept that there's going to be different portrayals and some will not be palatable to you. Support those you love.

    I love comics Arthur and thought he was OUTRAGEOUS in Batman: The Brave and the Bold. Don't care for PAD's run, the JLA/U cartoon version and the movie is... fine? Momoa's charisma carries the character through his, well, fine acting? He doesn't have much to work with and I'm not sure he'd cut it if he did, but they played to his strengths and made it a good vehicle for what he can bring.

    If anything, I would argue that differing interpretations of characters across media actually makes fans MORE prepared for the monthly books strictly because of changing creative teams. If you can love Batman in BTAS or the Nolan movies, you'll do fine in comics where he's portrayed as "just a human" and a God who trounces Godlike beings and everything in between. The same goes for Arthur. I prefer a more Silver Age and New 52-Rebirth Arthur. That's the character I love. Then there's PAD's Arthur who I really do not care for. It's not like he's been consistent. Hell, he was Orin for a while and raised by Dolphins (and later shacked up with a woman named Dolphin). Do I need to throw the water hand years into this too? I don't like when the comics copy movies just for a cheap cash grab ("hey, check out Peter's ORGANNNIC WEBBBBIINNNNG") but part of what makes them special is that so many unique stories can be told, either through mainline continuity, elseworlds or so on.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-30-2019 at 10:03 PM.

  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    We're gonna have the agree to disagree,
    That's cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I really want to unpack this divide but I just wrote a life-size brick of text breaking down what I found un-agreeable with that guy's video and I didn't even get to my points about intertextual relationships between adaptations being a good thing, at which point i realized it's just too much to unpack and define and articulate. however I will say this, I believe this problem will always exist, intertextuality vs adaptation exclusivity, simply due to the nature of american superhero fiction being endlessly serialized with no set author and thus no real direction; only ever the illusion of direction.
    That's a fair comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam
    I don't think there has to be one interpretation though. For example, I think both Adam West Batman and Kevin Conroy Batman are valid interpretations of the character and they couldn't be more different.
    It's not having more than one interpretation. the problem is how that interpretation affects the way people see the character. For example, "Hotel Transylvania" is a comedy and clearly not meant to be a accurate depiction of the iconic Dracula. No-one is going to watch that movie and think "yeah that's definitely what Dracula should be like."

    Plus you're right, Adam West Batman and Kevin Conroy Batman are valid interpretations of the character. Because both portray Batman as a detective. That's the archetype he's meant to be.

    By contrast the DCEU movies are not valid interpretations because they don't hold true to the characters archetypes. Superman is an aspirational hero, not someone full of doubt and unsure of himself. Batman is a detective, not a thuggish meathead. Wonder Woman is a peacemaker and a creation of the Greek goddesses, not a weapon and certainly not "Zeus bastard child No. 1,134."

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Not really, it seems more like a way to artificially elevate Arthur a little since he's in the back half of the Justice League.

    My big hope is that the Lovecraftian monsters become more a part of his world. KSD seems to be implementing them and then there's Brave and the Bold #32 by JMS. It works and makes his story a lot more mythic without encroaching on Diana's turf too much. Much like the Still/Sage/Strength/Silk/Quilt/Polyester/etc forces over in the Flash, those weren't really followed up on either.
    That could be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Pretty much this. The only way you'll get some degree of consistency is in cases like Starman, where Robinson was able to tell Jack's story, retire him and then effectively take the character with him. The fact that we have been granted the luxury of reading new stories with some characters approaching their centennial anniversary is the other side of the coin. You can't love these characters and reading their stories without being able to accept that there's going to be different portrayals and some will not be palatable to you. Support those you love.

    I love comics Arthur and thought he was OUTRAGEOUS in Batman: The Brave and the Bold. Don't care for PAD's run, the JLA/U cartoon version and the movie is... fine? Momoa's charisma carries the character through his, well, fine acting? He doesn't have much to work with and I'm not sure he'd cut it if he did, but they played to his strengths and made it a good vehicle for what he can bring.

    If anything, I would argue that differing interpretations of characters across media actually makes fans MORE prepared for the monthly books strictly because of changing creative teams. If you can love Batman in BTAS or the Nolan movies, you'll do fine in comics where he's portrayed as "just a human" and a God who trounces Godlike beings and everything in between. The same goes for Arthur. I prefer a more Silver Age and New 52-Rebirth Arthur. That's the character I love. Then there's PAD's Arthur who I really do not care for. It's not like he's been consistent. Hell, he was Orin for a while and raised by Dolphins (and later shacked up with a woman named Dolphin). Do I need to throw the water hand years into this too? I don't like when the comics copy movies just for a cheap cash grab ("hey, check out Peter's ORGANNNIC WEBBBBIINNNNG") but part of what makes them special is that so many unique stories can be told, either through mainline continuity, elseworlds or so on.
    I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    (and later shacked up with a woman named Dolphin).
    Speaking of which has there been any sign of Dolphin since the "Sink Atlantis" arc?

  5. #575
    Astonishing Member MadFacedKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Not really, it seems more like a way to artificially elevate Arthur a little since he's in the back half of the Justice League.

    My big hope is that the Lovecraftian monsters become more a part of his world. KSD seems to be implementing them and then there's Brave and the Bold #32 by JMS. It works and makes his story a lot more mythic without encroaching on Diana's turf too much. Much like the Still/Sage/Strength/Silk/Quilt/Polyester/etc forces over in the Flash, those weren't really followed up on either.

    You may see it come up in Snyder's work at most, but frankly he's more interested in Mera than Arthur as of right now.

    I feel like The forces played a big role for both Wonder Woman and The Flash so far though. WW has rammifications from Witching Hour and all the forces that are categorized next to the Speed Force seen like they'll probably stick with the Flash mythos.

    The Life Force for Aquaman just seems like a afterthought so far and wont have much bearing to the character outside Drowned Earth which sounds kind of pointless having even tied it to Aquaman. Heck I'm even wondering if some of the stuff KSD introduced like the Tatts which were supposed to be gifts from the Gods will even have any role storywise other then just to have him take after Aquamoa. I feel like Aquaman seems to be that character writers never follow up on stuff previous writers introduced stuff on. Ironically though with your PAD mention I feel like alot of the New52 stuff John's introduced was influenced by PAD just with a more serious Aquaman to start though.

    Tbh I never thought of Wonder Woman as a pure magical character and hold her to a worst regard to that then Aquaman. Aquaman has been shown to shoot blast of magical energy, stated to have magic in his veins, and his first protoge is a Sorceror. Where Wonder Woman is just more in the realm of myth where magic just seems to come into play here and there. Neither are straight up magicians/sorcerrors like say Zatanna or even Constantine so the whole having Wonder Woman embody magic thing was weird to me. I also don't think Aquaman should distance himself from the same connections he shares with Wonder Woman just because "he'd be branching into her terrority" a lot of the stuff they share is a part of both of their mythos.

    I would however like more stories like Night Gods which I honestly feel is Aquaman's best oneoff story.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    By contrast the DCEU movies are not valid interpretations because they don't hold true to the characters archetypes. Superman is an aspirational hero, not someone full of doubt and unsure of himself. Batman is a detective, not a thuggish meathead. Wonder Woman is a peacemaker and a creation of the Greek goddesses, not a weapon and certainly not "Zeus bastard child No. 1,134."
    I'm not really a fan of the DCEU movies either, but I do think you're oversimplifying their interpretation of the characters and I disagree that they aren't valid. It's all valid, but it just might not be good. DCEU Superman is terrible, and not the version of Superman I want on the big screen, but that doesn't mean it isn't valid. And even versions of characters I don't like might have something worth adding to the mythos. DCEU Aquaman is honestly one of the better interpretations (though that is of course on a very sliding scale), and taking pieces of him to add to the comics can work. And I definitely think Kelly Sue is making it work so far.
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  7. #577
    Unapologetic Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Can we get Venditti on Aquaman already? From his work on Hawkman and XO-Manowar, heís tailor made to pen Arthurís adventures.
    Last edited by Shadowcat; 08-31-2019 at 10:22 PM.

  8. #578
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Can we get Venditti on Aquaman already. From his work on Hawkman and XO-Manowar, he’s tailor made to pen Arthur’s adventures.
    He'd probably write Mera out entirely though.

  9. #579
    Astonishing Member MadFacedKid's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    I got bummed when one of my favorite Aquaman scribes hell probably my favorite writer for Arthur had Aquaman appear in Doomsday Clock only to not be fully shown and cut out of the image. But then i read the recent JL issue and got hyped as hell. Im guessimg we are going to get more out of The Life Force and seeing more of the potential power of it
    end of spoilers

    Anyone feel DC as a whole pretty much have been dropping the ball with Aquaman though. Promotional wise I mean? I read a comment somewhere on another forum with someone suggested they werent expecting the movie to be a success or as successful as it was so they didnt really follow up on it. The most we've honestly gotten disappointingly is some synergy with how Aquaman looks and possibly acts. But not much of a push, atleast as far as I'd like i guess

  10. #580
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    spoilers:
    I got bummed when one of my favorite Aquaman scribes hell probably my favorite writer for Arthur had Aquaman appear in Doomsday Clock only to not be fully shown and cut out of the image. But then i read the recent JL issue and got hyped as hell. Im guessimg we are going to get more out of The Life Force and seeing more of the potential power of it
    end of spoilers

    Anyone feel DC as a whole pretty much have been dropping the ball with Aquaman though. Promotional wise I mean? I read a comment somewhere on another forum with someone suggested they werent expecting the movie to be a success or as successful as it was so they didnt really follow up on it. The most we've honestly gotten disappointingly is some synergy with how Aquaman looks and possibly acts. But not much of a push, atleast as far as I'd like i guess
    Same thing happened to WW. DC didn't take the advantage to promote her after her movie.

  11. #581
    Astonishing Member MadFacedKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    Same thing happened to WW. DC didn't take the advantage to promote her after her movie.
    I think they thought she wouldn't be as big of a success either, given what happened to their World's Finest. Regardless she did get the Earth 1 graphic novel no idea when Aquaman's is coming out. She got a month where she was a special cover appeaeance on other titles I beleieve, i dont think Aquaman got that. I feel like I'm missing some stuff too in regards to what else, but she definitely deserved more then what she got being the DCEU/WODC first successful film or atleast universally praised, and I think Aquaman should of got more being the WODC first film to past a billion.

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He'd probably write Mera out entirely though.
    As a fan of Venditti's X-O, he's really bad at romance with characters. Like really really bad.

  13. #583
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    spoilers:
    I got bummed when one of my favorite Aquaman scribes hell probably my favorite writer for Arthur had Aquaman appear in Doomsday Clock only to not be fully shown and cut out of the image. But then i read the recent JL issue and got hyped as hell. Im guessimg we are going to get more out of The Life Force and seeing more of the potential power of it
    end of spoilers

    Anyone feel DC as a whole pretty much have been dropping the ball with Aquaman though. Promotional wise I mean? I read a comment somewhere on another forum with someone suggested they werent expecting the movie to be a success or as successful as it was so they didnt really follow up on it. The most we've honestly gotten disappointingly is some synergy with how Aquaman looks and possibly acts. But not much of a push, atleast as far as I'd like i guess
    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    Same thing happened to WW. DC didn't take the advantage to promote her after her movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    I think they thought she wouldn't be as big of a success either, given what happened to their World's Finest. Regardless she did get the Earth 1 graphic novel no idea when Aquaman's is coming out. She got a month where she was a special cover appeaeance on other titles I beleieve, i dont think Aquaman got that. I feel like I'm missing some stuff too in regards to what else, but she definitely deserved more then what she got being the DCEU/WODC first successful film or atleast universally praised, and I think Aquaman should of got more being the WODC first film to past a billion.
    The only character who DC seems to have successfully capitalized on their popularity is Harley Quinn of all people.

  14. #584
    Astonishing Member MadFacedKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The only character who DC seems to have successfully capitalized on their popularity is Harley Quinn of all people.
    She’s tragedy and comedy all in one so I get why she has mass appeal. Not for
    me though.

    More and more I’ve been going over to Marvel though because of the way they treat their characters in comparison. Honestly the big event books for the most part seem to be the only thing at DC I pay attention to

  15. #585
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFacedKid View Post
    She’s tragedy and comedy all in one so I get why she has mass appeal. Not for
    me though.
    I love her as a villain. Not so much a hero or Anti-Hero.
    More and more I’ve been going over to Marvel though because of the way they treat their characters in comparison. Honestly the big event books for the most part seem to be the only thing at DC I pay attention to
    DC and Marvel are hot and cold to me. One minute one's doing really good, the other just turns me off, but give or take a year it turns around.

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