Aquaman Appreciation 2019

[marinecurrys]

Just curious though, what is your opinion of Abnett's rebirth run as a whole aside from The Mera Queen of Atlants debacle ? I feel like I'm one of the few people that actually enjoyed most of it. Either way like you said we'll just have to wait and see what Kelly Sue as in store for the future.

[Korath]

My main issue with Mera being made Queen of Atlantis is how she became queen contradicts what had been laid out before. It makes zero sense. The Atlanteans are strict traditionalists. So much so that they begrudgingly took Arthur as their king, because it was his by law. Now, these sisters (who have never been referenced before Abnett's run) decide to make a foreigner, someone who's not even of their people Queen of Atlantis over the rightful king. Since when do Atlanteans choose who their king or queen is. If they chose, then Arthur never would of been king in the first place. Oh, and the people that she's from are actually seen as enemies by most Atlanteans who helped enslave them not too long ago. Just makes no sense.

And Mera chose to leave her own royal duties of her people to be with Arthur. So, why would she choose royal duties of people who aren't her own, and not be with Arthur.

I have no problem with Mera being queen of atlantis, if they had done it right. If she had married Arthur, and then this whole lame amnesia thing happend, it would make more sense her having the role of queen of atlantis. But now, Abnett has left us with a mess and i'm not sure how they rectify it.

Rath changed a lot of things. He was supposed to be a traditionalist, Make Atlantis Great Again style. He was put to the throne by the most legal of ways - the Council of Elders deciding that Arthur was unfit to rule, and deposed him in a very formal manner. And Rath turned into a madman and then a monster, almost destroying Atlantis because of it.

Remember that Arthur became king without bloodshed at first because Orm yielded the throne to him, because he felt bound by laws to do so, and then returned to the throne by forcing his brother to yield it. At that point, having seen the power of the Justice League and their new king, the Atlanteans were mostly willing to let him try to be a king -and not all of them did, a lot of terrorists and factions aiming to dethrone him spawned spontaneously.

But, after Rath, all was in chaos. The ruling dynasty of Atlantis had been dethroned and its last known member, Arthur, didn't want the throne back. A new King - or Queen- had to be chosen then. And, as is very often the case, he came from a foreign country. There is plenty of monarchies which had foreign rulers, in spite of how nationalistic some of those were (like the Balkan Monarchy at the end of the XIXth Century, which were often ruled by germanic Kings). And since the Sisterhood seemed to be less compromised that the rest of the elders -as far as I remember, Rath wasn't their first choice and they were the institution who defied him the most- they used their traditional influence to impose Mera on the Throne.

And the Sisterhood being a recent addition shouldn't be held against those changes. Since the New 52, the Aquaman mythos has been greatly changed, after all. Expanding on Atlantis' factions is a smart choice.

[marinecurrys]

Rath changed a lot of things. He was supposed to be a traditionalist, Make Atlantis Great Again style. He was put to the throne by the most legal of ways - the Council of Elders deciding that Arthur was unfit to rule, and deposed him in a very formal manner. And Rath turned into a madman and then a monster, almost destroying Atlantis because of it.

Remember that Arthur became king without bloodshed at first because Orm yielded the throne to him, because he felt bound by laws to do so, and then returned to the throne by forcing his brother to yield it. At that point, having seen the power of the Justice League and their new king, the Atlanteans were mostly willing to let him try to be a king -and not all of them did, a lot of terrorists and factions aiming to dethrone him spawned spontaneously.

But, after Rath, all was in chaos. The ruling dynasty of Atlantis had been dethroned and its last known member, Arthur, didn't want the throne back. A new King - or Queen- had to be chosen then. And, as is very often the case, he came from a foreign country. There is plenty of monarchies which had foreign rulers, in spite of how nationalistic some of those were (like the Balkan Monarchy at the end of the XIXth Century, which were often ruled by germanic Kings). And since the Sisterhood seemed to be less compromised that the rest of the elders -as far as I remember, Rath wasn't their first choice and they were the institution who defied him the most- they used their traditional influence to impose Mera on the Throne.

And the Sisterhood being a recent addition shouldn't be held against those changes. Since the New 52, the Aquaman mythos has been greatly changed, after all. Expanding on Atlantis' factions is a smart choice.

While I agree that expanding upon the inner workings of Atlantis was a great idea and something that a lot of people had been clamoring for ages, you can understand where he's coming from since it can be argued that anybody else could have taken the throne except for Mera, why not Ocean master who is still rotting away in a jail cell or something some place where he could easily make a comeback "Make Atlantis great again style" I presume. Mera has always had a love-hate relationship with Atlantis and also she's supposed to be fiercely loyal and attached to Arthur which makes her decision to claim to throne instead of bailing to look for her missing loved one seem out of character. And to add insult Deconnick comes in with the potential idea of seperating these two love birds for good.

[ChrisG]

Just curious though, what is your opinion of Abnett's rebirth run as a whole aside from The Mera Queen of Atlants debacle ? I feel like I'm one of the few people that actually enjoyed most of it.

It was satisfactory, but it didn't fare well in sales, because it was without Arthur. Same will apply with Arthur if he is without Mera.

Rath changed a lot of things. He was supposed to be a traditionalist, Make Atlantis Great Again style. He was put to the throne by the most legal of ways - the Council of Elders deciding that Arthur was unfit to rule, and deposed him in a very formal manner. And Rath turned into a madman and then a monster, almost destroying Atlantis because of it.

Remember that Arthur became king without bloodshed at first because Orm yielded the throne to him, because he felt bound by laws to do so, and then returned to the throne by forcing his brother to yield it. At that point, having seen the power of the Justice League and their new king, the Atlanteans were mostly willing to let him try to be a king -and not all of them did, a lot of terrorists and factions aiming to dethrone him spawned spontaneously.

But, after Rath, all was in chaos. The ruling dynasty of Atlantis had been dethroned and its last known member, Arthur, didn't want the throne back. A new King - or Queen- had to be chosen then. And, as is very often the case, he came from a foreign country. There is plenty of monarchies which had foreign rulers, in spite of how nationalistic some of those were (like the Balkan Monarchy at the end of the XIXth Century, which were often ruled by germanic Kings). And since the Sisterhood seemed to be less compromised that the rest of the elders -as far as I remember, Rath wasn't their first choice and they were the institution who defied him the most- they used their traditional influence to impose Mera on the Throne.

And the Sisterhood being a recent addition shouldn't be held against those changes. Since the New 52, the Aquaman mythos has been greatly changed, after all. Expanding on Atlantis' factions is a smart choice.

i agree that some changes or innovations are required. Otherwise it becomes boring. However there is a fine line not to cross, you can't dismiss or overhaul the characters that have been a fundamental part of the Aquaman mythos.

As for Mera being Queen, I believe it is wrong, It will limit or relegate her to a minor role. That will damage the book. Geoff Jones genius strike was to give her an important role. The problem they have now with Mera being Queen, is what to do with her?

Putting aside their romance, they are a power couple. It will be very foolish at the least, to destroy that by marring her off. A married Mera can't join arthur on quests! Besides this Mera is a far cry from the Mera we all know. She now looks like a submissive spiritless character. I hope they know what they are doing, this is after all a fun action comic not a dramatic Shakespeare novel.

[marinecurrys]

this is after all a fun action comic not a dramatic Shakespeare novel.

This ! So much this ! That would have been fine had this been the work of some playwright, however in an action adventure comic book I can't help but feel it comes off as a pretentious hipster poetry session (in my opinion anyay).

[ChrisG]

This ! So much this ! That would have been fine had this been the work of some playwright, however in an action adventure comic book I can't help but feel it comes off as a pretentious hipster poetry session (in my opinion anyay).

I can already imagine the plot and tears "Sorry ARthur I will love you till I die, but I have to do what is right for the people"

[marinecurrys]

I can already imagine the plot and tears "Sorry ARthur I will love you till I die, but I have to do what is right for the people"

So CRINGE, now watch KSD make it happen !
Anyway on a side note I was just lurking around when I stumbled upon this guy's opinion of the movie, while everyone is entitled to his opinion, reading his arguments made boil with anger !

Here are my unfiltered thoughts on why I favor the DCEU Aquaman. Sorry for the length, feedback's welcome: ��


Aside from the outfit, I've always been an Aquaman fan from his concept alone and never saw him as a joke even though I could have a good laugh at how media parodied him or some compared him to Spongebob (cough, Jeff Dunham). ��


This is mainly because: 1) As a longtime fan of Greek Mythology, I love the trident, Atlantis, and their connections to other cultures + mythologies. Like Wonder Woman's Amazon roots, Arthur's lore made him instantly interesting to me. ��


2) As with several Aquaman fans, I grew up fascinated by ocean life (I even considered going into Oceanography at one point in high school) and found the variety of sea-life + environments Arthur explores an endless source of creativity.


3) I like the idea of controlling water as a super-power (including Avatar: TLA, Bleach's Toshiro, and Sonic's Perfect Chaos). It has such possibilities. If a character is written OP enough, they could potentially have a whole planet as their weapon.


I was behind Jason Momoa's casting since his first poster + Batman v Superman cameo. Even before that, the thought had occurred to my imagination when I first saw him as Khal Drogo in Game of Thrones talking about sailing the Narrow Sea.


From my pov, an ideal Aquaman requires two fundamental qualifications before anything can build upon it: A) He's physically intimidating & commands a presence onscreen. B) He looks like someone who spends a lot of time in water.


I'm well aware that several would have preferred a more comic-accurate Arthur Curry but I'd honestly grown tired of the stereotypical sophisticated, Kingly Arthur (speaking as one who grew up loving the Justice League animated series).


I never found the comics' Arthur boring but Momoa brought a presence & energy to him that felt comparatively more grounded and relatable. I liked his drinking surfer-dude "Aquabro" vibe. It almost reminded me of a grungier Bodhi.


Were Patrick Swayze alive + in his prime, I could've possibly seen him in the role. From Momoa's messier hair to the tattoos, dirty clothes, and even Mera's comment on his hygiene, his depiction struck me as closer to quasi-plausible.


He came off more to me like a super-powered guy who spends much of his time in the ocean would. He wasn't raised in Atlantis with their more visually appealing oceanic attire or more gracefully groomed hair for living underwater.


It makes sense that Arthur would look so nasty, considering that he's not yet used to living Atlantean-style. In terms of personality, I enjoyed how the writers let him have more fun and talk like an actual person you could have a beer with.


I could see him as Aquaman even without the costume, as opposed to the same old royal voice and Atlantean tights from cartoons. This is similarly one factor in why I grew more invested in Thor post-Ragnarok, because he felt less "proper".


He was allowed to loosen up over time from the Asgardian prince (Granted, his performance back then made sense in context, prior to visiting Earth and becoming more humble) and his energy/humor felt progressively more organic.


I also liked Arthur's conflict over (much like Spock) being a child of two worlds who feels ironically like a fish out of water in Atlantis. Yes, we've seen this same arc done countless times and there are only so many ways you can reiterate on it.


Nonetheless, there are some characters where it can still work if done well. Obviously, Aquaman is filled with flaws & old cliches but I find Arthur's arc fitting for this version at least on paper. I'd rather have something cliched but fun any day.


My one major dislike about Momoa in the movie is that I wish his Justice League armor had become his standard outfit or at least been improved upon for when he gets the mythical trident. Reviving the comic outfit felt like a step backwards.


Of course, we have had some new takes on the classic costume that drew popularity in the Injustice games, but I think the majority would agree that several of the alternative armors made them feel more like a bad-ass underwater Superman.


The film is still an entertaining experience but I just can't take anyone (not even Momoa) seriously in that orange/green. Imo, it's simply not possible to make it look cool and the comics would've been better off retiring it generations ago.


Comment below, do you agree or disagree with my pov? Which version of Aquaman is your favorite and why?

Don't get me wrong now, I loved the movie for it's a visual spectacle alone but that was about it for me, because the movie also did a lot of things wrong honestly. I hate the fact that now people are going to associate Aquaman with Jason Momoa. I have nothing against Momoa personally but I feel that he was just playing himself in this movie and not Arthur Curry, besides not a fan of the bearded raggity tattooed pirate look and also to get completely rid of the green and orange suit, which is fundamental part of Aquaman's identity, would a huge misstep and a sacrilegious choice (like they did in Justice league).

[MadFacedKid]

I think he was definitely a straight-up villain in the Thrones of Atlantis animated movie.

In the movie I think he honestly genuinely believed he was doing the right thing for Atlantis by attacking the surface world and protecting the oceans even though he was going about it in the wrong way and was more of a tool about it. But the fact that they kept him alive at the end tells me that he will probably have a bit of a character arc in future movies.

Yeah I agree the animated version was a straight up villain. I feel like the movie went more in the direction of the animated movie then it did the comic book minus the JL and toned down fight ofcourse. We had Black Manta as a side villain like the animated movie and Orm as the schemer and big bad.

Whereas Orm didn't know the attack on Atlantis was caused by Vulko in the comics. Thank God he didn't try and kill his mother though I guess. I like Orm doimg what he feels is necessary but still caring about his people and family. Id rather have had Nereus set up the attack or Orm having another advisor who was prowar. That way Vulko stays clean and Orm seems more reedemable.

I'm curious about if Orm will ever find out his mom is alive.

[nj06]

Yeah I agree the animated version was a straight up villain. I feel like the movie went more in the direction of the animated movie then it did the comic book minus the JL and toned down fight ofcourse. We had Black Manta as a side villain like the animated movie and Orm as the schemer and big bad.

Whereas Orm didn't know the attack on Atlantis was caused by Vulko in the comics. Thank God he didn't try and kill his mother though I guess. I like Orm doimg what he feels is necessary but still caring about his people and family. Id rather have had Nereus set up the attack or Orm having another advisor who was prowar. That way Vulko stays clean and Orm seems more reedemable.

I'm curious about if Orm will ever find out his mom is alive.

I agree with this. Geoff Johns portrayed Orm more like a sympathetic villain while he wrote him. He definitely needed to be stopped, but as a King I can almost see why he did what he did. I also strongly agree with the bold. One thing I don't like about John's run was him having Vulko be the one who set up the attack. I feel like that has tarnished the character and like you stated it could have easily been avoided by having another character set it all up.

[ChrisG]

I agree with this. Geoff Johns portrayed Orm more like a sympathetic villain while he wrote him. He definitely needed to be stopped, but as a King I can almost see why he did what he did. I also strongly agree with the bold. One thing I don't like about John's run was him having Vulko be the one who set up the attack. I feel like that has tarnished the character and like you stated it could have easily been avoided by having another character set it all up.

Me too never liked the fact that Vulko was behind the attack. Probably thats one of the few times I did not agree with Jones, who to his credit probably gave us the best Aquaman ever. He made him great and left behind him a solid basis. Unlike Abnett who has created a mess that will not be easy to solve.
As for Vulko, Orm etc I doubt we will see them anytime soon, unfortunately. Seems Traditional characters don't have a role in KSD's run.

[Frontier]

I did find it refreshing that movie Vulko was actually trustworthy, at least in regards to helping Arthur and doing the right thing.

Yeah I agree the animated version was a straight up villain. I feel like the movie went more in the direction of the animated movie then it did the comic book minus the JL and toned down fight ofcourse. We had Black Manta as a side villain like the animated movie and Orm as the schemer and big bad.

Whereas Orm didn't know the attack on Atlantis was caused by Vulko in the comics. Thank God he didn't try and kill his mother though I guess. I like Orm doimg what he feels is necessary but still caring about his people and family. Id rather have had Nereus set up the attack or Orm having another advisor who was prowar. That way Vulko stays clean and Orm seems more reedemable.

I'm curious about if Orm will ever find out his mom is alive.

He was much more underhanded and antagonistic, but I never got the sense that at least his goals were coming from a selfish or wrong place, just his methods.

[ChrisG]

I did find it refreshing that movie Vulko was actually trustworthy, at least in regards to helping Arthur and doing the right thing.

He was much more underhanded and antagonistic, but I never got the sense that at least his goals were coming from a selfish or wrong place, just his methods.

Arthur will be needing Vulko to rule Atlantis and to show him how to act as a king. He has no idea about it
In the movie Vulko was the mastermind who came up with a way to stop Orm and bring in Arthur.

[Frontier]

Arthur will be needing Vulko to rule Atlantis and to show him how to act as a king. He has no idea about it
In the movie Vulko was the mastermind who came up with a way to stop Orm and bring in Arthur.

Yeah, I definitely think movie Arthur is going to need a lot of help running a kingdom .

[ChrisG]

Yeah, I definitely think movie Arthur is going to need a lot of help running a kingdom .

Definitely especially when it comes to diplomacy but at least he has a kingdom unlike his counterpart. Fortunately a movie lasts only 2hrs so they can't dethrone every other day.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm not so sure.

Arthur, in the film, cares a lot about life. When we first meet him he has a gruff macho exterior because he's a man who has rejected the call of the hero. He feels directionless and it frustrates him.

That changes when he meets Mera and when he hears the needs of others and rises to meet the challenge.

I think he'll grow into a good leader. He has Mera and Vulko, he even has Orm to compare himself to. I think he has all the potential to be a great man and doesnt need anyone to rule for him.