Bendis says DC has officially had 7 Crises

[Inversed]

Bendis basically confirms the 7 crises here after retweeting this tweet:
https://twitter.com/Reading_Hix/stat...81798176583680

1. Crisis On Infinite Earths
2. Zero Hour
3. Infinite Crisis
4. Final Crisis
5. Flashpoint
6. Convergence
7. Rebirth

[Lee Stone]

I'm not really sure that it's a confirmation.
He might've just retweeted it for the Milk Wars comment, or as a show that people were theorizing about the 7 Crisis events.

[The_Lurk]

Bendis basically confirms the 7 crises here after retweeting this tweet:
https://twitter.com/Reading_Hix/stat...81798176583680

1. Crisis On Infinite Earths
2. Zero Hour
3. Infinite Crisis
4. Final Crisis
5. Flashpoint
6. Convergence
7. Rebirth

IDK. I think he mixes up reset buttons with crisis stories.

[Dred]

Convergence didn't do or mean anything. I don't get how that keeps getting included, even DC themselves didn't care about it. Its only impact is as a vessel to insert Pre-Flashpoint Clark and Lois in with aged up Jon. That's the equivalent of the Lightning Saga or any number of dumb pseudo time travel stories. And that one bit of relevance has since been retconned out of prominence so it never meant anything. A "multiversal" event that didn't even include the main universe.

[Frontier]

Convergence didn't do or mean anything. I don't get how that keeps getting included, even DC themselves didn't care about it. Its only impact is as a vessel to insert Pre-Flashpoint Clark and Lois in with aged up Jon. That's the equivalent of the Lightning Saga or any number of dumb pseudo time travel stories. And that one bit of relevance has since been retconned out of prominence so it never meant anything. A "multiversal" event that didn't even include the main universe.

I guess in a way Convergence was kind of a precursor to Rebirth in a way, even if it really wasn't.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I guess in a way Convergence was kind of a precursor to Rebirth in a way, even if it really wasn't.

While the story was most definitely a failure in terms of sales and narrative, Convergence was the definitely important in that it was the thing that allowed the Pre-Flashpoint continuity to start dripping back into the DCU after the New 52 reboot, epitomized by the arrival of Jonathan Kent.

[Dred]

While the story was most definitely a failure in terms of sales and narrative, Convergence was the definitely important in that it was the thing that allowed the Pre-Flashpoint continuity to start dripping back into the DCU after the New 52 reboot, epitomized by the arrival of Jonathan Kent.

Jonathan Kent is not Pre-flashpoint continuity in the slightest. As a matter of fact, his appearance doomed the existence of Superman's pre-flashpoint son, Chris Kent/Lor Zod, into a villain. He is entirely a post-flashpoint conjuration who supplanted a pre-flashpoint character.

Convergence is also not the first time pre-flashpoint stuff peeked its nose into the post-flashpoint universe. Freaking GL and Batman held onto half their stuff. It did one thing of any relevance, and that one thing was retconned two years later.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Jonathan Kent is not Pre-flashpoint continuity in the slightest. As a matter of fact, his appearance doomed the existence of Superman's pre-flashpoint son, Chris Kent/Lor Zod, into a villain. He is entirely a post-flashpoint conjuration who supplanted a pre-flashpoint character.

Convergence is also not the first time pre-flashpoint stuff peeked its nose into the post-flashpoint universe. Freaking GL and Batman held onto half their stuff. It did one thing of any relevance, and that one thing was retconned two years later.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Jonathan Kent was a Pre-Flashpoint character, but rather that he was a significant byproduct of Pre-Flashpoint continuity being brought back via Convergence. Without Convergence, you don't get the Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark having a baby, who then get stuck in the New 52 continuity. The Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark's merging with their New 52 counterparts was also facilitated by Jonathan Kent, which caused another major rewriting of DCU history.

Like I said, as bad as Convergence was, it certainly qualifies as a pretty major event in terms of shifting DCU continuity, which is what Bendis is alluding to in Young Justice.

[Dred]

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Jonathan Kent was a Pre-Flashpoint character, but rather that he was a significant byproduct of Pre-Flashpoint continuity being brought back via Convergence. Without Convergence, you don't get the Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark having a baby, who then get stuck in the New 52 continuity. The Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark's merging with their New 52 counterparts was also facilitated by Jonathan Kent, which caused another major rewriting of DCU history.

Like I said, as bad as Convergence was, it certainly qualifies as a pretty major event in terms of shifting DCU continuity, which is what Bendis is alluding to in Young Justice.

Except you do, because that is literally the timeline right now, because they retconned Convergence out of mattering. This Batman and this Wonder Woman watched Jon grow up, somehow. And even in the event that you attribute everything to Convergence (in which case you'd have to keep running backwards attributing everything to something before it, but I digress), it's still a relatively minor, single thing. I can't imagine a Crisis is something that the main universe is completely uninvolved in, and a story that DC didn't even try to edit (multiple repeated pages, lol). That anyone at any power in DC does anything but spit on that book in hushed whispers, much less acknowledge it alongside the rest of DC's bombastic stories, is idiotic.

Like seriously, you can tell the story of the current universe as if Convergence never happened. It's stupid and messy in a way that DC always is, but Convergence could've never happened and it wouldn't matter. Even though I loathe Flashpoint a million times over, it's definitely a big part of the ongoing continuity of DC. Convergence is not. Convergence centered around a dying book (earth 2) and a bunch of characters who'll never be seen again. Convergence inserted less pre-flashpoint history than half the Batman derivative books insert everytime they print. Convergence is hardly some beacon or starting point for previous continuity bleeding in.

Hell, at first, it downright refused to bleed in history. Clark, Lois, and Jon were merely refugees in a universe they weren't in from the start. Superman Reborn is the only thing that bled in any history.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Except you do, because that is literally the timeline right now, because they retconned Convergence out of mattering. This Batman and this Wonder Woman watched Jon grow up, somehow. And even in the event that you attribute everything to Convergence (in which case you'd have to keep running backwards attributing everything to something before it, but I digress), it's still a relatively minor, single thing. I can't imagine a Crisis is something that the main universe is completely uninvolved in, and a story that DC didn't even try to edit (multiple repeated pages, lol). That anyone at any power in DC does anything but spit on that book in hushed whispers, much less acknowledge it alongside the rest of DC's bombastic stories, is idiotic.

Like seriously, you can tell the story of the current universe as if Convergence never happened. It's stupid and messy in a way that DC always is, but Convergence could've never happened and it wouldn't matter. Even though I loathe Flashpoint a million times over, it's definitely a big part of the ongoing continuity of DC. Convergence is not. Convergence centered around a dying book (earth 2) and a bunch of characters who'll never be seen again. Convergence inserted less pre-flashpoint history than half the Batman derivative books insert everytime they print. Convergence is hardly some beacon or starting point for previous continuity bleeding in.

Hell, at first, it downright refused to bleed in history. Clark, Lois, and Jon were merely refugees in a universe they weren't in from the start. Superman Reborn is the only thing that bled in any history.

I'm not arguing that Convergence is essential to understanding the DCU, neither was Zero Hour, but it was definitely important enough to count as one of the big reality shifting Crisis because of the dominoes it got rolling.

[Dred]

Domino. Singular. Darkseid War got more rolling than Convergence.

[justinslot]

Milk Wars was a Crisis in fact, if not name. I loved it and I'm glad it came up in this thread.

Anyway the right answer was supplied by those who said "forget it, Jake, it's Bendistown" a few pages back.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Domino. Singular. Darkseid War got more rolling than Convergence.

I don't remember Darkseid War shifting DC continuity. It was a much better story, certainly, and explicitly laid out the damage done by the previous Crises, but I don't think it actively reset or retconned the DCU, did it?

Maybe I'm remembering Convergence wrong, but didn't it end with the original Crisis on Infinite Earths being undone by the Pre-Flashpoint Lois & Clark, Pre-Zero Hour Parallax, and the Pre-Crisis Barry Allen & Supergirl, who all survived? That seems like a pretty big deal that would lead to the unraveling of the New 52's already wonky unformed continuity, which Darkseid War referenced.

Again, I think everyone is agreed that Convergence was a dumpster fire of an event and as any kind of decent entertainment, but that does seem significant enough to warrant being included as one of the Seven Crises that Bendis was referring to.

That said, I don't think it really matters in the end. The gist is that the repeated reality-shifting shenanigans that the DCU experiences is also wreaking havoc upon Gemworld because they're linked. The exact Crises aren't really the important bit. I seriously doubt that the specifics of either Convergence or Milk Wars or any of these other continuity house cleaning event are even going to come up. Bendis has enough to juggle reintroducing all the old characters and getting them up to speed while also introducing the new kids and the all the baddies.

[NexusTenebrare]

Here's a thought. Could Barry creating the Flashpoint universe and the creation of the New52 universe count as two seperate crises?