Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 62
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,229

    Default Why let the Marvel Heroes suffer from their "actions ?"

    The recent Infinity War, Secret Empire and the original Civil War. Each has a hero/heroine acting out and then later on they get off scott free. I mean I would have liked Secret Empire to end with ONE Captain America dealing with himself, his history and his place in the Marvel Universe.

    Or have Tony Stark /Iron Man created a back-up data file of the original Civil War so he can remember what he did there.

    Or have Gamora Suffer for her actions in Infinity Wars, not have Adam Warlock spirit her away from punishment.

    Honestly: What's the point of having heroes be the antagonist if the company is just going to undo things later on ?

    Even Reed Richards got off Scott free from Civil War!!

    I want an event where Reed Richards suffers from his actions and his truly shunned by his peers and even seeing the YOUNGER GENERATION, not his daughter nor son, but the YOUNGER HEROES rising up and being even smarter than he is. Just one Marvel event with some aftermath that means something and will not be taken back. Is that too much to ask ?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    6,665

    Default

    Coates’ Captain America is dealing with the direct fallout from Secret Empire.

    Gamora was never really a villain, in fact, as soon as she got what she wanted she spent the rest of the event trying to right her wrongs.

  3. #3
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Inside eSCAPE
    Posts
    4,316

    Default

    I don't know how much more people want Tony to pay. He lost his company. He lost 2 men he loved like brothers Happy and Cap. Lost a man that treated him more like son than his own father did which was Sal Kennedy. He ended up in a coma to keep the super heroes true identity’s out of Osborns hands and just because he didn't remember what he did people still hated him for it. Hell even in Civil War 2 he ended up in a coma. Tony's paid enough. People need to move on. Evolve.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 01-06-2019 at 08:13 AM.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Snoop Dogg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    1,577

    Default

    No character gets as consistently reamed in these events as Tony. From Civil War to Siege he's a cosmic punching bag, then in Fear Itself he has to get wasted, then he's dealing with colliding universes, then he's inverted, then as soon as he's back to normal and a-ok, he explodes.

    Steve doesn't deserve to face any consequences because he did everything right, but is still going to feel responsible when Stevil gets out and does bad stuff.

    Everything Reed did from Civil War is related to the equation wall and the "solve everything" attitude that's addressed early in Hickman's run and still rolls over all the way to Secret Wars.
    "The monitor is lagging, I can't stop throwing up, I'm better than you"

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,144

    Default

    I vaguely recall a story either during or after the first Civil War where Reed went to 'check his math' with the Mad Thinker, and it was implied that the Mad Thinker kind of conned him into thinking it was a good idea, just to pour gas on the fire to come. It seemed like a sort of 'author saving throw,' to explain why such a smart guy would support such a dumb idea, but at least the writer was trying to half-assedly justify it after-the-fact. (PAD similarly wrote a story at the time where Reed had been replaced by an extra-dimensional brute, and left it wide open as to how long that had been going on, if anyone wanted to pick up on that and use it as an excuse for why Reed was involved, but, AFAIK, no one bit.)

    But yeah, Sue should have dumped his stretchy ass the moment he sent super-villain 'cape-killers' after herself, her brother and his best friend over a disagreement over something that wasn't even a law yet. And Didio, when asked, in response said that she'd forgive him, because, 'He'll cook her dinner or something.' Yikes.

    If anything, the punishment / fallout has disproportionately fallen on Tony, while Reed has more or less skated.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,025

    Default

    People say they want the "Younger Generation" to rise up but the truth is they don't really get anywhere near the support to be able to.

    Marvel really should just start writing their Heroes as heroes and then there would be less of a problem. The originals/old generation is still currently the best.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 01-06-2019 at 09:36 AM.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    17,577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I vaguely recall a story either during or after the first Civil War where Reed went to 'check his math' with the Mad Thinker, and it was implied that the Mad Thinker kind of conned him into thinking it was a good idea, just to pour gas on the fire to come. It seemed like a sort of 'author saving throw,' to explain why such a smart guy would support such a dumb idea, but at least the writer was trying to half-assedly justify it after-the-fact. (PAD similarly wrote a story at the time where Reed had been replaced by an extra-dimensional brute, and left it wide open as to how long that had been going on, if anyone wanted to pick up on that and use it as an excuse for why Reed was involved, but, AFAIK, no one bit.)

    But yeah, Sue should have dumped his stretchy ass the moment he sent super-villain 'cape-killers' after herself, her brother and his best friend over a disagreement over something that wasn't even a law yet. And Didio, when asked, in response said that she'd forgive him, because, 'He'll cook her dinner or something.' Yikes.

    If anything, the punishment / fallout has disproportionately fallen on Tony, while Reed has more or less skated.
    Didio? Don't you mean Quesada?

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Anthony W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    People say they want the "Younger Generation" to rise up but the truth is they don't really get anywhere near the support to be able to.
    Because the sharp edges have been rounded off.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  9. #9
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    The recent Infinity War, Secret Empire and the original Civil War. Each has a hero/heroine acting out and then later on they get off scott free. I mean I would have liked Secret Empire to end with ONE Captain America dealing with himself, his history and his place in the Marvel Universe.

    Or have Tony Stark /Iron Man created a back-up data file of the original Civil War so he can remember what he did there.

    Or have Gamora Suffer for her actions in Infinity Wars, not have Adam Warlock spirit her away from punishment.

    Honestly: What's the point of having heroes be the antagonist if the company is just going to undo things later on ?

    Even Reed Richards got off Scott free from Civil War!!

    I want an event where Reed Richards suffers from his actions and his truly shunned by his peers and even seeing the YOUNGER GENERATION, not his daughter nor son, but the YOUNGER HEROES rising up and being even smarter than he is. Just one Marvel event with some aftermath that means something and will not be taken back. Is that too much to ask ?
    The problem is that the natural consequence for a heroes unlawful actions is for them to go to jail. And you don't necessarily want to tell a story from the inside of a jail cell. It CAN be done (DD did it back in the day), but in most cases that's not the direction you want to take a character.

    So they will often have personal consequences, but not legal ones. You can argue they should pay MORE on a personal level than they do... I'd certainly agree with that in regards to Reed and Civil War for example. McDuffie and Millar (not surprisingly in his case) were pretty liberal giving him a free pass. But as far as Steve and Stark go, I think it was about right.

    Gamora SHOULD have consequences too.. we'll see where marvel goes with that.

  10. #10
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I vaguely recall a story either during or after the first Civil War where Reed went to 'check his math' with the Mad Thinker, and it was implied that the Mad Thinker kind of conned him into thinking it was a good idea, just to pour gas on the fire to come. It seemed like a sort of 'author saving throw,' to explain why such a smart guy would support such a dumb idea, but at least the writer was trying to half-assedly justify it after-the-fact. (PAD similarly wrote a story at the time where Reed had been replaced by an extra-dimensional brute, and left it wide open as to how long that had been going on, if anyone wanted to pick up on that and use it as an excuse for why Reed was involved, but, AFAIK, no one bit.)

    But yeah, Sue should have dumped his stretchy ass the moment he sent super-villain 'cape-killers' after herself, her brother and his best friend over a disagreement over something that wasn't even a law yet. And Didio, when asked, in response said that she'd forgive him, because, 'He'll cook her dinner or something.' Yikes.

    If anything, the punishment / fallout has disproportionately fallen on Tony, while Reed has more or less skated.
    Reed was written HORRIBLY during this era, and no amount of math on the wall fixes that.

    Nova tells Reed an intergalactic war is going on threatening the universe, and Reed sort of shrugs, ignores it, and doesn't bother mentioning it to anyone.

    Reed is told the 52 Prison (his idea) is overrun by Blastaar in the Negative Zone, and Reed just sort of locks the door and forgets about it, leaving all the prisoners that he helped put there to their fate. It's freaking Norman Osborn that ends up trying to save them.

    In hindsight I wonder if Reed shouldn't have been the freaking skrull instead of Pym.

  11. #11
    Mario Di Giacomo Beware Of Geek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,933

    Default

    I want a Marvel Event where the heroes don't HAVE to suffer for their actions because they did the right thing.

    I am sick and tired of story after story of heroes turning evil, being overly flawed, or battling other heroes for moral/ethical reasons.

    How about heroes being heroes, for once?
    Mario Di Giacomo

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,229

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The problem is that the natural consequence for a heroes unlawful actions is for them to go to jail. And you don't necessarily want to tell a story from the inside of a jail cell. It CAN be done (DD did it back in the day), but in most cases that's not the direction you want to take a character.

    So they will often have personal consequences, but not legal ones. You can argue they should pay MORE on a personal level than they do... I'd certainly agree with that in regards to Reed and Civil War for example. McDuffie and Millar (not surprisingly in his case) were pretty liberal giving him a free pass. But as far as Steve and Stark go, I think it was about right.

    Gamora SHOULD have consequences too.. we'll see where marvel goes with that.
    I WANT TO SEE Legal consequences for the hero’s actions. I mean let Steve Rogers go to trial for once and deal with a lawyer that he doesn’t know.


    I still don’t enjoy Secret Empire ending as it would have been a greater impact if it was made to be one Steve Rogers instead of two.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    The recent Infinity War, Secret Empire and the original Civil War. Each has a hero/heroine acting out and then later on they get off scott free. I mean I would have liked Secret Empire to end with ONE Captain America dealing with himself, his history and his place in the Marvel Universe.

    Or have Tony Stark /Iron Man created a back-up data file of the original Civil War so he can remember what he did there.

    Or have Gamora Suffer for her actions in Infinity Wars, not have Adam Warlock spirit her away from punishment.

    Honestly: What's the point of having heroes be the antagonist if the company is just going to undo things later on ?

    Even Reed Richards got off Scott free from Civil War!!

    I want an event where Reed Richards suffers from his actions and his truly shunned by his peers and even seeing the YOUNGER GENERATION, not his daughter nor son, but the YOUNGER HEROES rising up and being even smarter than he is. Just one Marvel event with some aftermath that means something and will not be taken back. Is that too much to ask ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I vaguely recall a story either during or after the first Civil War where Reed went to 'check his math' with the Mad Thinker, and it was implied that the Mad Thinker kind of conned him into thinking it was a good idea, just to pour gas on the fire to come. It seemed like a sort of 'author saving throw,' to explain why such a smart guy would support such a dumb idea, but at least the writer was trying to half-assedly justify it after-the-fact. (PAD similarly wrote a story at the time where Reed had been replaced by an extra-dimensional brute, and left it wide open as to how long that had been going on, if anyone wanted to pick up on that and use it as an excuse for why Reed was involved, but, AFAIK, no one bit.)

    But yeah, Sue should have dumped his stretchy ass the moment he sent super-villain 'cape-killers' after herself, her brother and his best friend over a disagreement over something that wasn't even a law yet. And Didio, when asked, in response said that she'd forgive him, because, 'He'll cook her dinner or something.' Yikes.

    If anything, the punishment / fallout has disproportionately fallen on Tony, while Reed has more or less skated.


    In the case of Reed Civil War should be ignored. It was a crappy event that twisted the character to suit the narrative. He was entirely out of character and suffers from bad perception as a result. Fantastic Four literally had a story years later where the entire team were against hero registration, that shows just how he had top be changed to fit the story.

    Plus, the next generation being smarter than him is not a punishment. He would actually love that, it's the entire reason he created the Future Foundation. He WANTS the next generation to be smarter and not make the same mistakes as the past ones.

    If anything I'd want the other members of the team to decide that Reed may no longer be the best one to lead the team and choose Sue to lead instead.
    Being the smartest =/= being the best to lead.
    Last edited by Crimz; 01-06-2019 at 09:32 AM.
    Invisible Woman deserves a solo or mini. It should have happened years ago.

    FANTASTIC FOUR (2018) is Out Now! Be sure to check it out!

    Also check out : The Invisible Woman Appreciation thread!

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    185

    Default

    tony got rekt with world war hulk, secret invasion, siege, dark reign

    captain nazi wasn't really steve rogers at all, no reason for him to take shit

    reed richards struggled in hickman's run too. not as much as tony but still

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    17,577

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Because the sharp edges have been rounded off.
    What do you mean?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •