Why let the Marvel Heroes suffer from their "actions ?"

[DragonsChi]

Because the sharp edges have been rounded off.

I get that this is meant to be cyrptic in nature but I have now idea what you are getting at or trying to say....

[Ezyo1000]

I want a Marvel Event where the heroes don't HAVE to suffer for their actions because they did the right thing.

I am sick and tired of story after story of heroes turning evil, being overly flawed, or battling other heroes for moral/ethical reasons.

How about heroes being heroes, for once?

Marvel: Heroes... Being... Heroes.....?

[XPac]

I WANT TO SEE Legal consequences for the hero’s actions. I mean let Steve Rogers go to trial for once and deal with a lawyer that he doesn’t know.


I still don’t enjoy Secret Empire ending as it would have been a greater impact if it was made to be one Steve Rogers instead of two.

I'll admit at times I was curious to see a few heroes on the receiving end of legal consequences too. But more times than not, it's not going to make for a very good comic book story. I think the bulk of readers wouldn't be interesting in seeing Steve sitting in a jail cell issue after issue. Maybe one issue or a small story arc, but that's gonna get old really fast.

But that aside, I think having 2 Steves ended up a really good idea because frankly HydraCap was a great villain. They can totally do more with him down the line, without having to sacrifice the normal Steve Rogers to do it.

[Raye]

Coates’ Captain America is dealing with the direct fallout from Secret Empire.

Gamora was never really a villain, in fact, as soon as she got what she wanted she spent the rest of the event trying to right her wrongs.

Uh, no she didn't, she got what she wanted (her soul restored) very early on, then spent the rest of the event trying to destroy the damn universe, and she had to be stopped by other characters in order to prevent that from happening. She said so that it could be rebuilt, but still, it wouldn't need rebuilding without being destroyed in the first place. It was implied she wasn't in her right mind, sure, but still. She got off way too easy. One soul isn't worth destroying the universe.

Anyway, yeah, I agree with the OP, I think if you are going to have a character turn heel, there should be lasting consequences to that, I don't think maintaining status quo should take priority over giving a story a satisfying resolution that has consequences. If you don't want to have a character dealing with those consequences, then don't do something that drastic. Personally, I would still be in favor of these stories being told, I just want the actions taken by the characters to have some meaning in terms of character development.

*edit - to the earlier point about them going to jail, yeah, that is true, a story of them sitting around in jail wouldn't be thrilling beyond an arc or two. But I would be fine with personal level consequences and them dealing with the guilt of them knowing they fucked up. But I'd also like it to be more than a passing handwave, maybe a memory wipe or two, before they go on with their lives as if nothing had happened. I think how they are handling Captain America is fine, though. I was cool with the reveal that Stevil was a new entity, especially since even though it absolutely could have been used as a reset button to allow Steve to go on as if nothing had happened, the original Steve is dealing with fallout from that months after because people have lost some amount of trust in him, regardless of the reveal that it was a doppelganger that took over the country. If he is dealing with fallout from something an evil doppelganger did, why shouldn't characters that legitimately did something awful get off Scott free? Basically I just want these big events and/or decisions to have an impact on the characters going forward, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the legal sense.

[XPac]

Uh, no she didn't, she got what she wanted (her soul restored) very early on, then spent the rest of the event trying to destroy the damn universe, and she had to be stopped by other characters in order to prevent that from happening. She said so that it could be rebuilt, but still, it wouldn't need rebuilding without being destroyed in the first place. It was implied she wasn't in her right mind, sure, but still. She got off way too easy. One soul isn't worth destroying the universe.

Anyway, yeah, I agree with the OP, I think if you are going to have a character turn heel, there should be lasting consequences to that, I don't think maintaining status quo should take priority over giving a story a satisfying resolution that has consequences. If you don't want to have a character dealing with those consequences, then don't do something that drastic. Personally, I would still be in favor of these stories being told, I just want the actions taken by the characters to have some meaning in terms of character development.

I think whether or not they should have long lasting consequences sort of depends on whether or not what they did was actually their fault.

In a lot of instances, Secret Empire for example, there's some sort of outside influence at work which causes the hero to act a certain way. Steve was just as much a victim there as anyone else. That's different from say Stark and Reed in Civil War, who did questionable things completely of their own free will. So they don't necessarily deserve the same free pass.

But if you're possessed by the Phoenix or altered by a cosmic cube or had your Axis flipped or whatever, then I think a story is more justified in giving the hero a free pass sooner rather than later.

[Raye]

I was editing as you were replying, so see above, I agree. I am mostly concerned with characters that, fully in control of their own actions, fucked up. Sometimes with very damaging effects. If they were mind controlled or victim of some kind or Cosmic Cube shenanigans, that does lessen how much they should pay for their actions, but I would still like to see it be acknowledged going forward, like they did with Phoenix for Jean, or they are doing with Cap right now. So I don't think it is something Marvel does universally, they have done it right at times, but it makes the times where they have just swept a character doing something awful under the rug (as happens with most of the Illuminati time and again) immediately afterward stand out more.

[Tycon]

People say they want the "Younger Generation" to rise up but the truth is they don't really get anywhere near the support to be able to.

Marvel really should just start writing their Heroes as heroes and then there would be less of a problem. The originals/old generation is still currently the best.

Entirely subjective.

[Tycon]

Uh, no she didn't, she got what she wanted (her soul restored) very early on, then spent the rest of the event trying to destroy the damn universe, and she had to be stopped by other characters in order to prevent that from happening. She said so that it could be rebuilt, but still, it wouldn't need rebuilding without being destroyed in the first place. It was implied she wasn't in her right mind, sure, but still. She got off way too easy. One soul isn't worth destroying the universe.

Yes, I just said she got what she wanted. And she knew she had put their lives in danger when she trapped them with Devondra, but it was to rebalance the world of the Soul Stone. So she had to create a new universe and unlock secrets of the universe to help her. Gamers wasn’t about to sacrifice her friends for nothing, she knew if she didn’t do this that Devondra would destroy everything.

[Anthony W]

I get that this is meant to be cyrptic in nature but I have now idea what you are getting at or trying to say....

Not being cryptic, just saying that the younger heroes are kind of boring. Most tend to lack the energy and the edge of the originals. That is what I meant by the edges being rounded off. Take Ms Marvel, she is basically the Cyclops of her generation minus the things that make Cyclops interesting like tragedy and angst. Instead of tragedy and angst she is just well adjusted and happy. That makes her kind of boring and reliant on other characters to carry her. Kate Bishop? No, just no. America? For awhile it looked like she was going to be a star, now it seems the character is in hero rehab.

[XPac]

I was editing as you were replying, so see above, I agree. I am mostly concerned with characters that, fully in control of their own actions, fucked up. Sometimes with very damaging effects. If they were mind controlled or victim of some kind or Cosmic Cube shenanigans, that does lessen how much they should pay for their actions, but I would still like to see it be acknowledged going forward, like they did with Phoenix for Jean, or they are doing with Cap right now. So I don't think it is something Marvel does universally, they have done it right at times, but it makes the times where they have just swept a character doing something awful under the rug (as happens with most of the Illuminati time and again) immediately afterward stand out more.

It can sometimes can be a bit glaring when things are swept under the rug too quickly.

In Axis for example, the mutants basically took over New York. And it was done very publically for all the world to see. Because it was caused by them being magically inverted, I can't say they DESERVE anu consequences for what happened. But I'm frankly a little shocked that everyone just sort of forgot about it and moved on, when a certain vocal portion of the public pretty much hates mutants anyways. You'd think that would have pushed the anti-mutant stuff to new levels... but no one took the bait. I suppose that's a good thing but still... not what I expected.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I want a Marvel Event where the heroes don't HAVE to suffer for their actions because they did the right thing.

I am sick and tired of story after story of heroes turning evil, being overly flawed, or battling other heroes for moral/ethical reasons.

How about heroes being heroes, for once?

That would require Marvel to develop villains, give them decent characterizaion while still being villains and keep their character consistent with a variety of writers.

That's a special kind of crazy talk right there!

[Cmbmool]

That would require Marvel to develop villains, give them decent characterizaion while still being villains and keep their character consistent with a variety of writers.

That's a special kind of crazy talk right there!

Doctor Doom and Loki maybe ?

[Cmbmool]

Not being cryptic, just saying that the younger heroes are kind of boring. Most tend to lack the energy and the edge of the originals. That is what I meant by the edges being rounded off. Take Ms Marvel, she is basically the Cyclops of her generation minus the things that make Cyclops interesting like tragedy and angst. Instead of tragedy and angst she is just well adjusted and happy. That makes her kind of boring and reliant on other characters to carry her. Kate Bishop? No, just no. America? For awhile it looked like she was going to be a star, now it seems the character is in hero rehab.

So it's better for Younger heroes to have tragedy and Angst instead of being well rounded and happy ?

I say this as I am a fan fo Ms. Marvel and her stories and it does have it share of ups and downs. It's great to see a fresh take on the hero dynamic that doesn't revolve around tragedy and angst.

I'm kind of surprised that they don't do the tragedy and Angst stuff for Carol Danvers/ Captain Marvel. Especially given her history, that Marvel tends to overlook/takes bits and pieces of and throws out the rest.

[Anthony W]

Doctor Doom and Loki maybe ?

Aren't they anti-heroes now?

[Cmbmool]

Aren't they anti-heroes now?

Don't they count as developed villains in recent years ?