Is Wonder Woman playing second fiddle to Harley Quinn?

[daBronzeBomma]

I suspect she actually is, in a weird way.

Historically? There's absolutely no comparison. Diana is a legit franchise Alpha around whom an entire mythos is built, while Harleen Quinzel is ... definitely not that.

But lately? I can't shake the feeling that Harley Quinn is somehow more DC's "It" Girl than Diana is. Seems like, while she doesn't really carry a solo franchise, Harley is everywhere or inserted into anything.

It's the exact kind of concerted push that I thought for sure we'd see with Diana after her 2017 blockbuster movie ... only that never materialized.

I know DC totally sucks at marketing synergy in general, but I don't get why Harley Quinn (who committed or aided/abetted countless felonies including 1st-degree murder) gets this corporate love from DC/WB while Diana just gets paltry stuff.

Maybe it's just the optics are bad. Maybe there's no disconnect.

I think there is. Do you?

[brettc1]

I suspect she actually is, in a weird way.

Historically? There's absolutely no comparison. Diana is a legit franchise Alpha around whom an entire mythos is built, while Harleen Quinzel is ... definitely not that.

But lately? I can't shake the feeling that Harley Quinn is somehow more DC's "It" Girl than Diana is. Seems like, while she doesn't really carry a solo franchise, Harley is everywhere or inserted into anything.

It's the exact kind of concerted push that I thought for sure we'd see with Diana after her 2017 blockbuster movie ... only that never materialized.

I know DC totally sucks at marketing synergy in general, but I don't get why Harley Quinn (who committed or aided/abetted countless felonies including 1st-degree murder) gets this corporate love from DC/WB while Diana just gets paltry stuff.

Maybe it's just the optics are bad. Maybe there's no disconnect.

I think there is. Do you?

Mmmm. Sort of like asking is Wolverine coming second to Deadpool?

Both DP and Harley sell to the same market. They are loony and ultra violent chaotic neutrals with good tendencies, setting them apart from your straight laced lawful good character types.

I think HQ is selling well at the moment in comic books, but I also think she has a limited shelf life.

[Restingvoice]

Marketing wise, yes, but they cater to different audiences. They're kinda like Batman and Superman. One is a more classic hero, one is more fun. The fun one is usually more easily marketed.

The simplest example, you can sexualize Harley or put her in any crazy situation both heroic and villainous and for the most part will be fine, but if you sexualize Wonder Woman or put her in a controversial situation, people will riot.

There's a certain standard that Superman and Wonder Woman have to follow that limit experimentation

[My Two Cents]

I love Diana and Harley
So weather one gets more love from D C or the other
don't bother me much, as long as enough is given to
the other.

[starlight25]

I love Diana and Harley
So weather one gets more love from D C or the other
don't bother me much, as long as enough is given to
the other.

Which is not the case with Wonder Woman sadly.

[kjn]

I think it's rather simpler than that: the upper echelons at DC understand Harley Quinn and like her as a character. I'm not sure they understand Wonder Woman. They like the merchandising money and would like the character to succeed, but they don't understand how to make her succeed.

It'd be really interesting to look at different LCS's and look at how well they manage to sell various properties, because I wouldn't be surprised if there are huge differences in demographics that affect depending on how the store is set up, is positioned, and its atmosphere. Franchises like Batman or Spiderman will sell well in any case, but how will it affect stuff like Wonder Woman, Ms Marvel, or Squirrel Girl?

[king81992]

I suspect she actually is, in a weird way.

Historically? There's absolutely no comparison. Diana is a legit franchise Alpha around whom an entire mythos is built, while Harleen Quinzel is ... definitely not that.

But lately? I can't shake the feeling that Harley Quinn is somehow more DC's "It" Girl than Diana is. Seems like, while she doesn't really carry a solo franchise, Harley is everywhere or inserted into anything.

It's the exact kind of concerted push that I thought for sure we'd see with Diana after her 2017 blockbuster movie ... only that never materialized.

I know DC totally sucks at marketing synergy in general, but I don't get why Harley Quinn (who committed or aided/abetted countless felonies including 1st-degree murder) gets this corporate love from DC/WB while Diana just gets paltry stuff.

Maybe it's just the optics are bad. Maybe there's no disconnect.

I think there is. Do you?

WW isn't playing second fiddle to Harley Quinn, Harley is getting a major push right now. When it comes to DC everyone is made to play second fiddle to Batman.


WW 'push' after the movie's success didn't amount to much because the people in charge of the comics had no idea what to do with her.

[daBronzeBomma]

Mmmm. Sort of like asking is Wolverine coming second to Deadpool?

Both DP and Harley sell to the same market. They are loony and ultra violent chaotic neutrals with good tendencies, setting them apart from your straight laced lawful good character types.

I think HQ is selling well at the moment in comic books, but I also think she has a limited shelf life.

That's one half of the equation I was looking for. Harley Quinn is definitely DC's Deadpool in terms of presentation, origin as a spinoff character, humor, violence, etc.

But Wolverine and Deadpool came from the same franchise (X-Men). I'm looking for someone who is unrelated, way older, historically more significant, but not nearly enough in the spotlight for various reasons.

Maybe ... I dunno ... Sub-Mariner?

[LordUltimus]

Simple. Harley is under the Batman umbrella, and everyone who isn't under that umbrella plays second fiddle to them.

[Sacred Knight]

I've believed Harley has been DC's It Girl for years now, not just recently. This brand of bad writing in HiC is just making it all the more apparent.

[Flash Gordon]

She totally is, for whatever weird reason. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me since WW has proven that she is a popular character. When her movie took off they should have hit the gas with a cartoon and toys and the whole nine yards.

[kjn]

She totally is, for whatever weird reason. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me since WW has proven that she is a popular character. When her movie took off they should have hit the gas with a cartoon and toys and the whole nine yards.

Trouble is, when DC tries to hit the gas with Wonder Woman, they are as likely to hit the clutch or the brakes, probably because the editors making the hiring decisions don't understand what makes the character tick, and thus can't assess if they're hiring the right writer or not.

What else is there to explain the so many bad fits for writing Wonder Woman? How else explain Azzarello (undermining everything Diana stands for), the Finches (trainwreck), Rucka (known good), Fontana (decent), Robinson (trainwreck), Orlando (decent), Tynion (crossover, good), Wilson (at least decent but with lots of promise), Morrison (Earth One, not as bad as Azzarello), and Grevioux (trainwreck).

Meanwhile they have Kristy Quinn who edited Sensation Comics and The Legend of Wonder Woman, both of which have featured much better and more consistent takes on Wonder Woman.

[Cmbmool]

That and the sad fact of Wonder Woman never gaining a secondary title or a stable supporting cast like Harley Quinn has currently. Steve Trevor is one thing, but there are other characters in Wonder WOman past that do matter and could use a modern day update or two, right ?

[Cmbmool]

Trouble is, when DC tries to hit the gas with Wonder Woman, they are as likely to hit the clutch or the brakes, probably because the editors making the hiring decisions don't understand what makes the character tick, and thus can't assess if they're hiring the right writer or not.

What else is there to explain the so many bad fits for writing Wonder Woman? How else explain Azzarello (undermining everything Diana stands for), the Finches (trainwreck), Rucka (known good), Fontana (decent), Robinson (trainwreck), Orlando (decent), Tynion (crossover, good), Wilson (at least decent but with lots of promise), Morrison (Earth One, not as bad as Azzarello), and Grevioux (trainwreck).

Meanwhile they have Kristy Quinn who edited Sensation Comics and The Legend of Wonder Woman, both of which have featured much better and more consistent takes on Wonder Woman.

Don't forget how DC has certain events that centered on Wonder Woman like the Aquaman and Justice League crossover event with Atlantis and its gods, but NO WONDER WOMAN TIE IN. Even though Wonder WOman has ties to the GODS!!!

It's like when Wonder WOman a focus on a Justice League event story, but DC barely tries to tie it back to the current Wonder Woman on-going titles.

The same can be said for her new 52 series and the lack of interactions with the rest of the DCU of the new 52.

[starlight25]

WW isn't playing second fiddle to Harley Quinn, Harley is getting a major push right now. When it comes to DC everyone is made to play second fiddle to Batman.


WW 'push' after the movie's success didn't amount to much because the people in charge of the comics had no idea what to do with her.

What push? They didn't push her at all after the big hit of her film. The usual.