Is Wonder Woman playing second fiddle to Harley Quinn?

[Vordan]

On-topic yes, HQ is shoved everywhere and was shilled as the “fourth pillar” by Lee I think a few years ago. Diana is totally second to Harley in DC’s eyes.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Yes. She’s the classic femme fatale archetypical bag girl. She’s free spirited and unrestrained, which means people can have more fun with her in a way.

[marhawkman]

HQ and WW would make a really interesting "odd couple" to write. Harley is impulsive and does pretty much anything she wants, but Diana puts others first and never does things just because she wants to.

[LordUltimus]

What push? They didn't push her at all after the big hit of her film. The usual.

There was a Steve Trevor oneshot. That was it, though.

[daBronzeBomma]

Simple. Harley is under the Batman umbrella, and everyone who isn't under that umbrella plays second fiddle to them.

"Them"?

There's no "them". There's only "Him".

Ah, the almighty BatGod: The guy whose only superpower is punking other superheroes with P.I.S. while being an abject failure at his actual job of cleaning up Gotham City for good.

But I digress: Wonder Woman herself is doing miles better than every member of the Bat Family except Bruce and possibly Harley.

Everyone else? Diana smokes them.

She is doing far better than Selina, Dick, Babs, Damian, Jason, Tim, Cass, Stephanie, Duke, Harper, Azrael, Batwing, Ace or anyone else associated with the Bat.

Bruce is a given. Harley is a question mark. Everyone else is not a factor here.

[Flashback]

Don't forget how DC has certain events that centered on Wonder Woman like the Aquaman and Justice League crossover event with Atlantis and its gods, but NO WONDER WOMAN TIE IN. Even though Wonder WOman has ties to the GODS!!!

It's like when Wonder WOman a focus on a Justice League event story, but DC barely tries to tie it back to the current Wonder Woman on-going titles.

The same can be said for her new 52 series and the lack of interactions with the rest of the DCU of the new 52.

I have never noticed that but that is weird, you'd think they would make a big crossover or event with wonder woman as the main lead.

Yes. She’s the classic femme fatale archetypical bag girl. She’s free spirited and unrestrained, which means people can have more fun with her in a way.

Guess it's TRUE, people love bad boys/girls

Yeah, writers don't have to worry much if this will tarnish her reputation as opposed to Wonder Woman.

[starlight25]

I have never noticed that but that is weird, you'd think they would make a big crossover or event with wonder woman as the main lead.



Guess it's TRUE, people love bad boys/girls

Yeah, writers don't have to worry much if this will tarnish her reputation as opposed to Wonder Woman.

What image? WW has been underwhelming for years now. Barely having any power presence. And DC seems to do everything in their power to keep it that way.

[Celgress]

OP - Heck, pretty much everyone in DC Comics is playing second fiddle to Harley these days, LOL.

[theoneandonly]

forget WW even Batman and joker play second fiddle to Harley. by the the power of toon force!

[Agent Z]

I have never noticed that but that is weird, you'd think they would make a big crossover or event with wonder woman as the main lead.



Guess it's TRUE, people love bad boys/girls

Yeah, writers don't have to worry much if this will tarnish her reputation as opposed to Wonder Woman.

Speaking as a Wonder Woman fan, I don't want a crossover with her as the lead because of how bad DC and Marvel are at those as of late. We already saw their attempt with a WW even in Amazons Attack and I'd rather avoid the risk.

[Amazon Swordsman]

What image? WW has been underwhelming for years now. Barely having any power presence. And DC seems to do everything in their power to keep it that way.

I could be off base here, but what I think he meant is that despite how poorly DC treats her, it seems like the ideals she’s supposed to represent tend to be more important than the character itself. WW is, or was at her core an inherently political character. She’s a symbolic representation of ideals. Harley (and many other characters for that matter) don’t bear the heavy burden of carrying a cultural legacy on their shoulders. Could you imagine what writing WW would be like if you never had to acknowledge feminist/gender issues, if artists could draw her in anything scantily clad without reservation, or not have to consider the encroachment of male influence?

[Flashback]

I could be off base here, but what I think he meant is that despite how poorly DC treats her, it seems like the ideals she’s supposed to represent tend to be more important than the character itself. WW is, or was at her core an inherently political character. She’s a symbolic representation of ideals. Harley (and many other characters for that matter) don’t bear the heavy burden of carrying a cultural legacy on their shoulders. Could you imagine what writing WW would be like if you never had to acknowledge feminist/gender issues, if artists could draw her in anything scantily clad without reservation, or not have to consider the encroachment of male influence?

No, you're right on target.

You summed it up better than I could have. So thanks for that

[starlight25]

I could be off base here, but what I think he meant is that despite how poorly DC treats her, it seems like the ideals she’s supposed to represent tend to be more important than the character itself. WW is, or was at her core an inherently political character. She’s a symbolic representation of ideals. Harley (and many other characters for that matter) don’t bear the heavy burden of carrying a cultural legacy on their shoulders. Could you imagine what writing WW would be like if you never had to acknowledge feminist/gender issues, if artists could draw her in anything scantily clad without reservation, or not have to consider the encroachment of male influence?

They barely touch those themes nowadays. They still do fanservice, eyecandy with her at times. And they don't portray her as a female powerhouse anymore. And where is the backlash?

[daBronzeBomma]

The barely touch those themes nowadays. They still do fanservice, eyecandy with her at times. And they don't portray her as a female powerhouse anymore. And where is the backlash?

And that's a major reason right there why the expected creative (print) wave didn't and still hasn't materialized with the movie's success: Wonder Woman has long been a much bigger symbol than an actual consistent character. What she stands for (equality, women's rights, girl power, etc) far outweighs any consistent characterization of her.

She's kinda like Mickey Mouse (who represents nostalgia for childhood), and Harley Quinn is like Donald Duck: one is the bigger symbol and more noble, sure, but lacks the pliable characteristics that makes the other (who is crazier) the bigger go-to for more storytelling. See theDucktales reboot, for example.

Bottom line: I think too many artists are wary of a POTENTIAL backlash if they try anything with Diana, but they have no such fear with Harley Quinn. So they don't try anything, good or bad, with Diana.

And when they do try, all they usually get is criticism anyway.

If I was a professional writer/ penciller (I'm not) and had no preexisting attachment or bias toward either character (spoiler alert: I do and it's WW), then yeah,

Harley would be the preferred assignment because I could do almost anything with her storywise and get a fair shake, whereas working on Diana would seem like too much of a minefield of what would and wouldn't offend her more divisive fanbase.

And all of that is BEFORE you factor in the Batverse branding.

No wonder Harley is winning lately.

[Agent Z]

And that's a major reason right there why the expected creative (print) wave didn't and still hasn't materialized with the movie's success: Wonder Woman has long been a much bigger symbol than an actual consistent character. What she stands for (equality, women's rights, girl power, etc) far outweighs any consistent characterization of her.

She's kinda like Mickey Mouse (who represents nostalgia for childhood), and Harley Quinn is like Donald Duck: one is the bigger symbol and more noble, sure, but lacks the pliable characteristics that makes the other (who is crazier) the bigger go-to for more storytelling. See theDucktales reboot, for example.

Bottom line: I think too many artists are wary of a POTENTIAL backlash if they try anything with Diana, but they have no such fear with Harley Quinn. So they don't try anything, good or bad, with Diana.

And when they do try, all they usually get is criticism anyway.

If I was a professional writer/ penciller (I'm not) and had no preexisting attachment or bias toward either character (spoiler alert: I do and it's WW), then yeah,

Harley would be the preferred assignment because I could do almost anything with her storywise and get a fair shake, whereas working on Diana would seem like too much of a minefield of what would and wouldn't offend her more divisive fanbase.

And all of that is BEFORE you factor in the Batverse branding.

No wonder Harley is winning lately.

Diana's debut film was considered the saving grace of the DCEU and has a sequel coming out as well as an animated movie on the way. Harley might be winning but Diana is not losing either. There is nothing to show that Diana is playing second fiddle to Harley.

And for all the talk about DC being afraid to try new things with her, how often has this actually been true? They've made her a daughter of Zeus, turned her into a villain in a high profile video game, put her in a relationship with Superman, changed her costume three times within the space of eight years and this just the stuff that's happened since Flashpoint. If anything, Diana's problem is that DC's approach to her is a case of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Yes, there is backlash, but when has that ever stopped DC when it comes to WW? If anything, they see the backlash as proof people still care about her.