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  1. #31
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I don't know where you got the idea that Harper's the best at everything. She's not particularly good at fighting and isn't very agile, for example.
    Didn't she solo Mr.Freeze?
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member kaimaciel's Avatar
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    I personally don't want her back. She doesn't bring anything new to the table and the Bat Family is big enough as it is and many members underdeveloped. We should focus on them.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Didn't she solo Mr.Freeze?
    No. She got her legs frozen and Batman arrived and handled him.
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  4. #34
    Incredible Member Naked Bat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    No. She got her legs frozen and Batman arrived and handled him.
    I don't agree, her feats in Batman Eternal are in the same league as what the batfamily members can do.

    Not to mention, even without the fighting skills, she's written as way too brilliant and smart and able to hack anything and being able to track down batman and all that stuff to be a credible average jane.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naked Bat View Post
    I don't agree, her feats in Batman Eternal are in the same league as what the batfamily members can do.

    Not to mention, even without the fighting skills, she's written as way too brilliant and smart and able to hack anything and being able to track down batman and all that stuff to be a credible average jane.
    Oh. Okay, when I said Snyder wanted her to be the civilian point of view that doesn't mean she's an average person. She has some fighting skills and she's expecially good at electrical engineering, she just wasn't intended to be a superhero, just a hypercompetent civilian like Alfred.

    That changed in Batman Eternal when Dick has to stop being Nightwing. Snyder decided to make her Nightwing. That's when her role and maybe skills were increased, but then people found out about it and protested so she was named Bluebird instead.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member Naked Bat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Oh. Okay, when I said Snyder wanted her to be the civilian point of view that doesn't mean she's an average person. She has some fighting skills and she's expecially good at electrical engineering, she just wasn't intended to be a superhero, just a hypercompetent civilian like Alfred.

    That changed in Batman Eternal when Dick has to stop being Nightwing. Snyder decided to make her Nightwing. That's when her role and maybe skills were increased, but then people found out about it and protested so she was named Bluebird instead.
    I do think it would have been more interesting to make her an averange person.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toreador View Post
    I felt she was an unnecessary addition to the Bat family. She didn't really bring anything new and the Bat family was already overcrowded with so many characters (Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian, Spoiler, Cassandra, Batwing and Azreal).

    If someone were to bring her back locate her far away from Gotham and have little or no contact with Batman and Co.
    Same opinion here..

    I don´t want her return. The batfamily is too big..

    The only N52 Bat-member that I can accept is Batwing.. Is different, with that special bat-armor..
    Last edited by adrikito; 01-08-2019 at 08:15 AM.

  8. #38
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    Harper's niche is ... Bat-Electrician?

    Such a weird niche. Like the GI Joe whose specialty is "Administrator" but comes with a giant tank.

    She's a weird focus point for the Snyder run. I mean you've got Duke, who gets introduced similarly, has some interesting beats in the WE ARE ROBIN period then gets sort of phased into being a tie-in to Metal. And even that hasn't been pulled off exceptionally well, with a kind of daffy codename based on the Bat-Signal of all things. I will say that I do really like Duke's Phase 2 costume a lot.

    So while I'm having a weird time placing a "how do you bring back Harper?" theoretical, since they're both born of the Snyder run, perhaps they should share the same space so that they can interact and those post-Snyder story threads can overlap each other a bit. Which would've been easier thematically of course if Duke had gotten the "Lark" codename, because "Bluebird and Lark" or whatever has that songbird thematic built-in, whereas "Bluebird and The Signal" is a little out of nowhere. But I could even see her electrician roots and skills helping out when criss-crossed with Duke's ... um ... Light-Vision? And I think his history as a WE ARE ROBIN would be interesting to juxtapose with her, as would comparing their introductions to Batman, as would contrasting their different horrible parentage stories, as would contrasting their different CHOSEN ONE backstories.

    So that's my short pitch - pair up Duke and Harper in a book.

    They're both still pretty fresh and in spite of getting some headway, pretty inexperienced in totality, so I suppose it could also fall under the "BATMAN SCHOOL" angle that has been hinted at here and there.

    Of course that'd be a weird book, since most of the Bat-Kids we want to read about ... you know, don't need the "schooling" so wouldn't really need to be there except as guest spot mentors. Dick? Tim? Cass? Definitely don't need Bat-School. Babs? Def not. Steph? Probably not. Jason or Damian? Wouldn't. Luke? Def not.

    Flamebird might be a neat choice though. Though badass and experienced, I could see Bette getting some "official induction" training on.
    Last edited by K. Jones; 01-08-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Harper already decided to quit being a superhero, but that's not a bad idea.

    Since Duke had his own base, Harper can be his Alfred.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Harper already decided to quit being a superhero, but that's not a bad idea.

    Since Duke had his own base, Harper can be his Alfred.
    I don't mind Harper being Duke's Alfred. (Just because she doesn't want to be a superhero, doesn't mean she shouldn't keep training; Alfred knows, Gotham is a dangerous city.

    I also want her have her own life working at the clinic...along side Nurse Linda Page (now a Physician's Assistant). Harper's brother shouldn't be forgotten either.

    I'd also like Lucas Fox to be 'big brother' to Duke. Again, Luke would have his own life as a full-time Bat-weapon-smith and part-time hero.
    Last edited by scary harpy; 01-08-2019 at 08:07 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naked Bat View Post
    Harper simply doesn't work as a character. If she was to be the civilian eye that reacts to the batfamily, Snyder should have written her as a believable human being. Start by not making her "the most badass evaaaar" who is such a brilliant kid who can do anything, hack anything and beat anyone. I mean, we already have Tim Drake doing that anyway.

    By creating such a brilliant character, Snyder ended up making her bland. Being the best is not a character trait.
    Harper is the She-Tim.

  12. #42
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    Harper's niche is ... Bat-Electrician?

    Such a weird niche. Like the GI Joe whose specialty is "Administrator" but comes with a giant tank.

    She's a weird focus point for the Snyder run. I mean you've got Duke, who gets introduced similarly, has some interesting beats in the WE ARE ROBIN period then gets sort of phased into being a tie-in to Metal. And even that hasn't been pulled off exceptionally well, with a kind of daffy codename based on the Bat-Signal of all things. I will say that I do really like Duke's Phase 2 costume a lot.

    So while I'm having a weird time placing a "how do you bring back Harper?" theoretical, since they're both born of the Snyder run, perhaps they should share the same space so that they can interact and those post-Snyder story threads can overlap each other a bit. Which would've been easier thematically of course if Duke had gotten the "Lark" codename, because "Bluebird and Lark" or whatever has that songbird thematic built-in, whereas "Bluebird and The Signal" is a little out of nowhere. But I could even see her electrician roots and skills helping out when criss-crossed with Duke's ... um ... Light-Vision? And I think his history as a WE ARE ROBIN would be interesting to juxtapose with her, as would comparing their introductions to Batman, as would contrasting their different horrible parentage stories, as would contrasting their different CHOSEN ONE backstories.

    So that's my short pitch - pair up Duke and Harper in a book.

    They're both still pretty fresh and in spite of getting some headway, pretty inexperienced in totality, so I suppose it could also fall under the "BATMAN SCHOOL" angle that has been hinted at here and there.

    Of course that'd be a weird book, since most of the Bat-Kids we want to read about ... you know, don't need the "schooling" so wouldn't really need to be there except as guest spot mentors. Dick? Tim? Cass? Definitely don't need Bat-School. Babs? Def not. Steph? Probably not. Jason or Damian? Wouldn't. Luke? Def not.

    Flamebird might be a neat choice though. Though badass and experienced, I could see Bette getting some "official induction" training on.
    The bat-school idea I really like and would actually want to see Duke and Harper in. I would love to see Bette be a teacher.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

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  13. #43
    Also goes by Westbats Westbats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    Harper's niche is ... Bat-Electrician?

    Such a weird niche. Like the GI Joe whose specialty is "Administrator" but comes with a giant tank.

    She's a weird focus point for the Snyder run. I mean you've got Duke, who gets introduced similarly, has some interesting beats in the WE ARE ROBIN period then gets sort of phased into being a tie-in to Metal. And even that hasn't been pulled off exceptionally well, with a kind of daffy codename based on the Bat-Signal of all things. I will say that I do really like Duke's Phase 2 costume a lot.

    So while I'm having a weird time placing a "how do you bring back Harper?" theoretical, since they're both born of the Snyder run, perhaps they should share the same space so that they can interact and those post-Snyder story threads can overlap each other a bit. Which would've been easier thematically of course if Duke had gotten the "Lark" codename, because "Bluebird and Lark" or whatever has that songbird thematic built-in, whereas "Bluebird and The Signal" is a little out of nowhere. But I could even see her electrician roots and skills helping out when criss-crossed with Duke's ... um ... Light-Vision? And I think his history as a WE ARE ROBIN would be interesting to juxtapose with her, as would comparing their introductions to Batman, as would contrasting their different horrible parentage stories, as would contrasting their different CHOSEN ONE backstories.

    So that's my short pitch - pair up Duke and Harper in a book.

    They're both still pretty fresh and in spite of getting some headway, pretty inexperienced in totality, so I suppose it could also fall under the "BATMAN SCHOOL" angle that has been hinted at here and there.

    Of course that'd be a weird book, since most of the Bat-Kids we want to read about ... you know, don't need the "schooling" so wouldn't really need to be there except as guest spot mentors. Dick? Tim? Cass? Definitely don't need Bat-School. Babs? Def not. Steph? Probably not. Jason or Damian? Wouldn't. Luke? Def not.

    Flamebird might be a neat choice though. Though badass and experienced, I could see Bette getting some "official induction" training on.
    That'd be a cool dynamic, who do you think would lead it? Batman or Batwoman? I can't see them both coming together like they did in Detective Comics after what happened in Batwoman. So in my mind it'd be one or the other.
    I am currently reading Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, The Batman Who Laughs, Doomsday Clock, Sideways, Ms. Marvel, and Thor.

    In time I hope to read Red Hood and The Outlaws, Batman and The Outsiders, and Young Justice.

  14. #44
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    I think Harper is best left "off stage" until somebody figures out how to portray her properly. There's still a lot of anger toward her.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    How about we don't. Ever. Maybe as a civilian supporting character for early '00s crew but that is it.

    I have slowly warmed to the auxiliary characters of the bloated Bat-Family a few degrees, but not Harper. Never Harper.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 01-11-2019 at 08:54 PM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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