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  1. #76
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    I'm gonna be contrary to the usual opinions, which generally reek of cliche favoritism and the usual business. I want Harper back, and as Bluebird. Most who say she "didn't work" say so under the veneer of envy that it wasn't "their" Bat-person in-costume and heroing. Further, Harper can still be the "civilian perspective" and not abandon her costumed identity for when she needs to make use of it.

    I do agree that Harper being a helper for those who need it is a good idea; Harper's appearances generally can be summarized as such in one way or another, not to mention stepping up to take care of herself and her brother. She should have agency of her own beyond that, however, and that agency should be given focus.

    One thing I will say is that I'd definitely want Cullen to be prominent in whatever way that Harper returns. Best case scenario in a dueteragonist fashion, or close to it. One of the things I love about Harper is her relationship with her younger brother. It's one of her most endearing traits, along with her tenacity. And I loved Batman and Robin: Eternal for giving Cullen some spotlight. If anyone could work "behind the scenes", it's Cullen, based on his time near Eternal's end working with/under Midnighter. (I'd also love for them to still be in contact, for character-relevant reasons, but that's another thing.)

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I think the fan backlash was overstated. As always a small vocal section of fandom made a lot of noise but plenty of people liked her just fine.
    It's odd to me that people didn't like how skilled she was considering this is the same group that has Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake, Damian, etc. Being really good at things is kind of a requirement for membership. She came on strong but that makes sense to me. I don't know why you would introduce a character in a lackluster fashion and have her be clearly inferior to everyone else. But I don't really get into or care for the who's smarter/stronger/faster stuff so my that could be why I feel that way. I want everyone to shine and be awesome.

    I like your idea for the Superheavy arc. That could have worked. The good news imo is that there's really no limit to where they can go with her from here. She has enough character and personality to go in a lot of different directions. I'd love to see Simone get a chance to write her. I think Wilson could go a great job too. Or Orlando, I think he could go a little darker with her (her setting and stories, not her personality). Really there's a lot of DC writers I'd like to see write her... anyone besides the Abnett/Jurgens/Tomasi/etc crowd, really.
    Those balking at and lashing out at Harper for being skilled makes no sense given the context of the setting and medium, I agree. It makes no sense unless you take into consideration the perspective of the vocal minorities' envy toward a character being shown to be skilled and tenacious and driven that isn't the character they like and want to be focused on. Harper was never given a chance from those people because of this, and the reasons and justifications and "corrections" made, claimed, and given make no sense in this setting and medium context.

    It doesn't make sense to lukewarm someone in Batman's world like that, which is why other Bat-characters are not lukewarmed, especially not new heroes in their intros. General comic-book wonkiness of different origin takes aside, when the likes of Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian were introduced, when these characters were created and written with the intent of making superheroes out of them, they were not lukewarmed. They struggled as appropriate to the stories they were in, but not because of lack of trying and skill and drive on their own parts. That's what made them alluring. That's what still makes them alluring. Damian would not have the impact he did and does if they trotted him along as the vocal minority claimed to want for Harper. Same for Tim. Same for any superhero, really.

    On a different subject, I'd love Simone or Orlando to have a go at writing Harper/Bluebird. Orlando did well by The Signal in the issue he appeared in in The Unexpected, and that was just a single issue. I love his other DC stuff (most recent being his Justice League of America, and his Electric Warriors is deep), and would likely enjoy what he comes up with for Harper (and Cullen, too). Likewise and again for Simone; she'd do justice to both of the Rows, I feel.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post
    Nope, it was pretty justified.

    Also what is it with people bringing up awards? why would you care about what a paid shill has to say about anything? The character was crap and the book she in was frustrating and offensive to anyone with any vested interest in the other characters, mainly because of her.
    No, it was overblown, and not really justified because, at its source, it was "not my character" envy. Not to mention a boatload of other unfortunate implications.
    Last edited by J. D. Guy; 01-22-2019 at 01:21 PM.

  4. #79
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    The problem is they marketed that event weekly as this celebration of Robin’s 75th anniversary, but instead it was a vehicle for Harper and Cass. Which ultimately lead to nothing, turning that entire platform into an rather expensive waste of time. It was a bait and switch.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 01-22-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post
    Nope, it was pretty justified.

    Also what is it with people bringing up awards? why would you care about what a paid shill has to say about anything? The character was crap and the book she in was frustrating and offensive to anyone with any vested interest in the other characters, mainly because of her.
    You're misunderstanding what I'm directing overblown towards. I'm not talking about individual reactions. I respect however any person reacted to the character. I'm not saying a person who had a strong dislike didn't exist or were wrong for feeling that way. When I say overblown I'm saying that there were not as many people who hated her as some places make it seem, in my experience.

    The book wasn't frustrating or offensive to me, and I have vested interest in the bat characters. It clearly was to you and I respect that but that doesn't mean everyone shared your experience. Claiming that everyone who liked her are somehow less invested than you is incorrect.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    Those balking at and lashing out at Harper for being skilled makes no sense given the context of the setting and medium, I agree. It makes no sense unless you take into consideration the perspective of the vocal minorities' envy toward a character being shown to be skilled and tenacious and driven that isn't the character they like and want to be focused on. Harper was never given a chance from those people because of this, and the reasons and justifications and "corrections" made, claimed, and given make no sense in this setting and medium context.

    It doesn't make sense to lukewarm someone in Batman's world like that, which is why other Bat-characters are not lukewarmed, especially not new heroes in their intros. General comic-book wonkiness of different origin takes aside, when the likes of Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian were introduced, when these characters were created and written with the intent of making superheroes out of them, they were not lukewarmed. They struggled as appropriate to the stories they were in, but not because of lack of trying and skill and drive on their own parts. That's what made them alluring. That's what still makes them alluring. Damian would not have the impact he did and does if they trotted him along as the vocal minority claimed to want for Harper. Same for Tim. Same for any superhero, really.

    On a different subject, I'd love Simone or Orlando to have a go at writing Harper/Bluebird. Orlando did well by The Signal in the issue he appeared in in The Unexpected, and that was just a single issue. I love his other DC stuff (most recent being his Justice League of America, and his Electric Warriors is deep), and would likely enjoy what he comes up with for Harper (and Cullen, too). Likewise and again for Simone; she'd do justice to both of the Rows, I feel.
    I think it's just a segment of fans that want their favorites to be the strongest or fastest or smartest or whatever the case may be. That's not something I'm interested in and I don't understand the mentality. I can't really see how being skilled makes a character more or less interesting. I'm more interested in their motivations, past, personality, supporting cast and setting, things like that. Neither outlook is wrong or right I just fall into the latter category.

    Regardless I agree it makes little sense to introduce a character as being ok at things. Comics pretty much demands they have some elite skills and membership into the bat clan does also. It seems like the calls to make a character less than amazing are usually directed at characters a person doesn't want to succeed for whatever reason. I rarely hear "My favorite character is too good at things, I wish they were less competent".

    After thinking about it I really do think Orlando is a great choice. I hadn't thought much about the Cullen aspect, but taking that into account, Orlando makes even more sense. There's a lot of room for growth for both Harper and Cullen and Orlando could really make those characters sing. Side note, I think Electric Warriors is fantastic also. I read the first issue and decided to trade wait for it I liked it so much but I'm having trouble waiting and will probably buy the issues monthly in addition to the trade.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    The problem is they marketed that event weekly as this celebration of Robin’s 75th anniversary, but instead it was a vehicle for Harper and Cass. Which ultimately lead to nothing, turning that entire platform into an rather expensive waste of time. It was a bait and switch.
    While I like Harper and would like to see her back, I think this is a fair criticism, Batman and Robin Eternal should have been something along the Robin War story line, which was a better tribute to the Robin title.

    I was clear that post Batman and Robin Eternal, that they were building a new Birds of Prey book, in the Batgirl book that would have been Barbara (Batgirl) Dinah (Black Canary), Steph (Spoiler), Frankie (Operator) and Harper (Blue Bird) but then Rebirth happened.

    I think this is the best scenario for the return of Harper is Birds of Prey book with Batgirl, Black Canary and Huntress and mentors to a group of younger heroes Spoiler, Orphan and Blue Bird with Frankie resuming the role as Operator ( I liked Frankie).

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZuLuLu View Post
    While I like Harper and would like to see her back, I think this is a fair criticism, Batman and Robin Eternal should have been something along the Robin War story line, which was a better tribute to the Robin title.

    I was clear that post Batman and Robin Eternal, that they were building a new Birds of Prey book, in the Batgirl book that would have been Barbara (Batgirl) Dinah (Black Canary), Steph (Spoiler), Frankie (Operator) and Harper (Blue Bird) but then Rebirth happened.

    I think this is the best scenario for the return of Harper is Birds of Prey book with Batgirl, Black Canary and Huntress and mentors to a group of younger heroes Spoiler, Orphan and Blue Bird with Frankie resuming the role as Operator ( I liked Frankie).
    That's a great idea! I love the Birds of Prey and that's a great lineup. Get Simone on that book asap! She can definitely get Harper over.

  9. #84
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    I know how to bring back Harper Row: Time for a Batman family culling and this time no resurrection/ Lazar pits to save them. Let them stay dead for a LONG TIME.

  10. #85
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    I think I'd just have a Bluebird solo book, put it out there as a 4-issue mini-series with NO other Bat-characters in the way, and if it sells, give her an ongoing.
    Last edited by oasis1313; 01-24-2019 at 04:20 PM.

  11. #86
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    How to bring back Harper Row?


    JUST DON'T... BS Character, anyway.....

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    No, it was overblown, and not really justified because, at its source, it was "not my character" envy. Not to mention a boatload of other unfortunate implications.
    No, it was not overblown because it was absolutely craptastic writing that infected an entire book. And its not "unfortunate implications", its literally what the writer put there, noting is implied, its outright stated. Its what happened.
    It was a 52 issue story that took a dump on the intellectual property of every Robin, which as you would expect many Robin fans read. To push a new character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    The problem is they marketed that event weekly as this celebration of Robin’s 75th anniversary, but instead it was a vehicle for Harper and Cass. Which ultimately lead to nothing, turning that entire platform into an rather expensive waste of time. It was a bait and switch.
    Exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    Claiming that everyone who liked her are somehow less invested than you is incorrect.
    I cant account for everyones taste, i wouldnt eat what you like to eat tho.
    Last edited by Mataza; 01-23-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I know how to bring back Harper Row: Time for a Batman family culling and this time no resurrection/ Lazar pits to save them. Let them stay dead for a LONG TIME.
    How 'bout no?
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  14. #89
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    Harper appeared in today's Young Justice episodes (well, 11, I think, I haven't seen the next ones yet). Just wanted to inform

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Harper appeared in today's Young Justice episodes (well, 11, I think, I haven't seen the next ones yet). Just wanted to inform
    Yeah it was definitely 11, im watching it right now.

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